Over on rpg.net, the accusations are flying that the Golarion setting is racist in its portrayal of non-caucasian humans and their cultures.

Note that I do NOT want this thread to turn into a discussion on racism in society as a whole, politics, etc etc.; all of that is OFF-TOPIC to this discussion.  What is not off-topic is to actually discuss the material in the Golarion setting itself and put forth arguments for whether or not the depictions therein are racist.  Let's look at that evidence, and not get swept away into bigger discussions that are off-topic to the forum.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;563551Over on rpg.net, the accusations are flying that the Golarion setting is racist in its portrayal of non-caucasian humans and their cultures.

Note that I do NOT want this thread to turn into a discussion on racism in society as a whole, politics, etc etc.; all of that is OFF-TOPIC to this discussion.  What is not off-topic is to actually discuss the material in the Golarion setting itself and put forth arguments for whether or not the depictions therein are racist.  Let's look at that evidence, and not get swept away into bigger discussions that are off-topic to the forum.

RPGPundit

I subjected myself to 11 pages of that thread, not actually knowing the source material.

I gathered that a) people were offended that "Africa" only had five "cultures" when "Europe" only had five "cultures, b) people were offended at "black savages", c) people were offended at "black people in white face", d) people were offended at POSITIVE stereotypes and e) some people in our hobby need to get a hobby.

Can't be done.

It's already dubious whether this thread is really about Golarion or Rpgnet.

Dust off and EMP the RPGnet servers from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

No, Golarion is not racist. It does use archetypes and stereotypes to fuel its fantasy, which pretty much any and all fantasies do, but it is not racist in the conventional sense of the term.

I think people are trying really hard to find something to bitch about.

It's no more racist than anything else, except maybe those racist games.

I haven't read the books and so can't render a real verdict. On the rpg.net thread: I'm sure looking at the people posting though (Ettin, LogicNinja, Topher, Kai Tave, whatever RedMage's latest sock is called) that its less about racism and more about smearing Pathfinder.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;563593I haven't read the books and so can't render a real verdict. On the rpg.net thread: I'm sure looking at the people posting though (Ettin, LogicNinja, Topher, Kai Tave, whatever RedMage's latest sock is called) that its less about racism and more about smearing Pathfinder.

I read some of it yesterday, and there was one good and interesting post by someone who actually appeared to know their Anthropology fairly well and had some interesting criticisms to make, but other than that we pretty much have the usual infantile discussion of the depictions of race in texts in terms of guilt or innocence.

Because really there are interesting discussions that could be had about the depiction of race and cultures, both real and imaginary in games and the kind of structural reasons they take certain forms, if people would just remember that rpgs are a drop in the ocean of a wider cultural context and leave off with all the constant fucking moralising.

You can tell it's election season in America!

Golarion is far more nationalist than racist. Lots of old empires that hate each other.

I know only as much about Golarion as was quoted and alluded to in the BIG PURPLE thread, but here's what I was able to gather.

One of the goals of Golarion is to create a fantasy roleplaying game-world which strongly invokes certain tropes, a number of them pretty common in sword'n'sorcery source-lit. Many of those tropes were established when mores about gender, culture, and ethnicity were different than they are today. In some cases, it appears that these tropes were adopted for Golarion uncritically and without context.

Here's an example of why this rubs some gamers the wrong way, from my own (not-Golarion) campaign. One of the potential encounters in Flashing Blades is with gypsies (and I will continue to use gypsies in the following, rather than Romany, to reflect this usage in the book). The stereotype of gypsies is one of vagrants, thieves, and charlatans. It would be one thing, then, to adopt this stereotype whole-cloth, as if thses are qualities of 'gypsiness.'

On the other hand, I can say that many of the superstitions and prejudices surrounding gypsies arise from differences between their cultural practices and those of the people among whom they live, and that gypsy society reflects the relationship between poverty and crime. Gypsies pursue what few means are open to them to make a living, and some turn to crime; in this they are no different from the poor of the societies among whome they live, but because of the prejudices which surround them, the incidence of crime by gypsies is magnified by the fears of the surrounding population. From this comes the stereotype of gypsies as vagrants, thieves, and charlatans.

Now, while the latter description is perhaps more nuanced - and in my opinion opens up far more interesting roleplaying conflicts and opportunities - it's also much more cumbersome than the traditional stereotype. I understand why authors for a gaming publication, looking to emulate their source-lit, wouldn't take this route, instead accepting the problematic stereotype and expecting gamers to be mature enough to understand the reasons why.

Panty-waisted hand-wringing over imagined shit in a goddam fantasy game?  A game where magic, gods, dragons and all manner of...I don't know - not real things exist?

Have they truly got nothing more to talk about?  Aren't there many other things to be outraged about that have some sort of relevance to life?

Jesus Christ.

The world would be a much better place if everytime someone bitched about racism based on irrelevant crap like roleplaying games, they were punched in the groin by Mike Tyson.

Crap like this makes people not give a shit about racism, especially the very real stuff that does happen in the world.

What I don't get about that thread is... why pick on Golarion? It's not like it's the only fantasy/RPG/D&D setting where this topic applies. Seems like a Paizo hate session to me.

Quote from: ningauble;563612What I don't get about that thread is... why pick on Golarion? It's not like it's the only fantasy/RPG/D&D setting where this topic applies. Seems like a Paizo hate session to me.

As near as I can tell, 4e fans at rpg.net have a hard-on where Paizo and Pathfinder are concerned.

Quote from: danbuter;563611Crap like this makes people not give a shit about racism, especially the very real stuff that does happen in the world.

It's frequency versus magnitude.

High-magnitude, low-frequency racism is easy to identify and condemn.

Low-magnitude, high-frequency racism is easier to overlook from a position of privilege.