Quote from: The Traveller;566930That would be like being racist against the Ku Klux Klan.

Anyone identifying themselves as "Ulster Scot" and coming out with lies (whether invented personally or received from mawmay) about drunken Irish people constantly wandering into these panes of glass apparently strewn all over the place before collapsing into raging icy torrents from which they had to be heroically rescued by the sober protestant, is probably not someone to invite around for dinner. Especially as its the preferred ethnic identification of the aforementioned loyalist/unionists.

Both those things really happened, of course. You racist piece of shit.

If we really must, let's get back to Golarion.

Yes, again, this thread is exclusively for talking about whether Golarion is racist and trying to show how it is or it isn't, NOT for talking about the larger questions of racism as a whole except in direct relation to the game. Please immediately cease any posts not directly related to the subject.

RPGPundit

Interesting take on how RQ6 designers view the problem.

Quote from: Loz, Pete or both.On the other hand it is becoming more difficult to write roleplaying game settings and historical supplements in general. Of late there has been a growing reactionary movement to censure certain negative aspects of human culture and society, which in itself is no bad thing, but maybe shouldn’t be applied so stridently in a hobby which is based upon escapism. Especially when many roleplaying games are based upon challenging and overcoming societal inequalities and evils.

Quote from: CRKrueger;568096Interesting take on how RQ6 designers view the problem.

Now that is a very good point.

What is the point of being one of the Good Guys if everyone is a Good Guy or simply a Misunderstood Neutral?

Quote from: jeff37923;568098Now that is a very good point.

What is the point of being one of the Good Guys if everyone is a Good Guy or simply a Misunderstood Neutral?

The thread at this point is about Golarion only I think, I moved my post here.

Quote from: CRKrueger;568103The thread at this point is about Golarion only I think, I moved my post here.

Thank you for doing so.  This is a good example of what to do.  Only, of course, if the subject is related to RPGs, which yours was.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;567032Yes, again, this thread is exclusively for talking about whether Golarion is racist and trying to show how it is or it isn't, NOT for talking about the larger questions of racism as a whole except in direct relation to the game. Please immediately cease any posts not directly related to the subject.

RPGPundit

I want to point out that at the end of the day you have to look at racism as a whole because the thing about it is while I find their campaign setting obviously racist other people who don't can come up with reasons (varying from laughable to laudable) for feeling how they do. I think the setting is racist because the writers were lazy, perhaps insensitive. But I think when bringing shit like this up you should be asking whether the results are negative (its not, its run of the mill status quo, unsurprising) or whether or not the writers had malicious intent (they didn't they're just lazy). So is it racist? I think it is. There are other people who will say the same. There are also other people who don't feel negatively about it at all. No amount of arguing back and forth is going to change the various sensibilities of people on the subject.  The fact is the writers were just lazy and cut a little too close to the edge without thinking it through thoroughly. That's it. Its that simple.

Fucking rain man over here...

Quote from: MGuy;568476I want to point out that at the end of the day you have to look at racism as a whole because the thing about it is while I find their campaign setting obviously racist other people who don't can come up with reasons (varying from laughable to laudable) for feeling how they do.

I think its possible to make a vast number of arguments on this subject while still remaining focused on the particular "case study" of Golarion; rather than absolutely having to branch out into changing the entire subject into some other examples of racism or non-racism.    Anything within the range of still actually talking about Golarion and making arguments about Golarion is acceptable, including comparing it to other things in the RPG world, or comparing the material in golarion to non-rpg literature or other media that you think are racist (just not branching out into actually starting to argue about those other things without arguing about Golarion).  If you can't do that within these parameters, then you might have to consider if the problem isn't with a lack of coherent argument to be made.

RPGPundit

Quote from: MGuy;568476I want to point out that at the end of the day you have to look at racism as a whole because the thing about it is while I find their campaign setting obviously racist other people who don't can come up with reasons (varying from laughable to laudable) for feeling how they do. I think the setting is racist because the writers were lazy, perhaps insensitive. But I think when bringing shit like this up you should be asking whether the results are negative (its not, its run of the mill status quo, unsurprising) or whether or not the writers had malicious intent (they didn't they're just lazy). So is it racist? I think it is. There are other people who will say the same. There are also other people who don't feel negatively about it at all. No amount of arguing back and forth is going to change the various sensibilities of people on the subject.  The fact is the writers were just lazy and cut a little too close to the edge without thinking it through thoroughly. That's it. Its that simple.

Or, you're full of shit.  It's that simple.

Or j'accuse of racism WAAAAY too quickly.
I tend to attribute racism to malice, not ignorance, m'self.

Quote from: Novastar;568856Or j'accuse of racism WAAAAY too quickly.
I tend to attribute racism to malice, not ignorance, m'self.

Running through these kind of debates between those who see racism as located (or not-located) in the person producing the game or book, or film, and those who locate racism in the product.  (Of course, in the latter case most people still seem to, at least implicitly, given the sheer venom on display, make the moralistic assumption that a racist product must necessarily have been written by a racist person, however hidden, deep and secret that racism is presumed to be).

And of course we are never allowed to have degrees of racism.  Something is always assumed to be racist or not, all parties being either pure as the driven snow or guilty of the blackest of black sins.

It's going to be almost impossible to actually create a fantasy version of Africa and not stumble upon stereotypes that have, at some point, been linked to a form of racist discourse. In all likelihood you'd struggle even if you were African.  The history of Africa in popular culture is entwined with colonialism.  This doesn't mean a failure to attain absolute purity needs to be denounced.  Failure to attain purity really ought to read in the context of the significance of even attempting to make a playable Africa setting.

I think the thing is one has to distinguish between archetypes and stereotypes.  Contrary to what certain people try to claim, they're not the same thing.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;569161I think the thing is one has to distinguish between archetypes and stereotypes.  Contrary to what certain people try to claim, they're not the same thing.

RPGPundit

Well if you're a Jungian they're not.  But who's a Jungian?