I admit, as an American, I don't know the whole roma/gypsy thing.  I mean, I know the Roma were persecuted by the Nazis, and I'm pretty positive that they have been discriminated against and persecuted in many more countries, and are still discriminated against.

But I think it's important to realize that most Americans don't know any of that.  Heck, right now, as I speak, there is a TV show on called American Gypsies.  It follows around the Johns family in NY, which is a Roma family.  They call themselves gypsies all the time, and hardly ever refer to themselves as Roma.  This is about the only real world experience most Americans have with that culture.

So I guess my perspective is that don't think someone is automatically a racist when they use the term "gypsy", because what else are they supposed to know, especially if they are American?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;563724Wow.  I can't help note the irony in that so many rpg gamers have become Tipper Gore, and Dee Snider's speech to congress would also fit perfectly without modification on rpg boards as well.

Which is why I can't stand when schmuckanoids who claim to be part of a hobby of imagination try to put political regulations on my imagination.

JG

Quote from: SacrosanctWow. I can't help note the irony in that so many rpg gamers have become Tipper Gore, and Dee Snider's speech to congress would also fit perfectly without modification on rpg boards as well.

Quote from: James Gillen;564031Which is why I can't stand when schmuckanoids who claim to be part of a hobby of imagination try to put political regulations on my imagination.

Is the claim here that if a private citizen posts on a board claiming that some RPG product is racist, then that somehow is "political regulation on your imagination"?  

However wrong-headed or not the claims are about Golarion, a fucking internet thread isn't a political regulation.  It is, in fact, their free speech rights.  Free speech means that people - being stupid - will sometimes say stupid things.  They might trash the game you like, rave about the game you hate, say that a game is racist when it isn't, or say that a game is racist when it is.  None of that is political regulation on you.

Quote from: jhkim;564040Is the claim here that if a private citizen posts on a board claiming that some RPG product is racist, then that somehow is "political regulation on your imagination"?  

However wrong-headed or not the claims are about Golarion, a fucking internet thread isn't a political regulation.  It is, in fact, their free speech rights.  Free speech means that people - being stupid - will sometimes say stupid things.  They might trash the game you like, rave about the game you hate, say that a game is racist when it isn't, or say that a game is racist when it is.  None of that is political regulation on you.

So you are basically laissez-faire about racism?  Some people might be, but most people are not.  In 21st century America I see any accusation of racism against anything as a call for it being ended by any means necessary.

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;564041So you are basically laissez-faire about racism?  Some people might be, but most people are not.  In 21st century America I see any accusation of racism against anything as a call for it being ended by any means necessary.

Please, take your personal "white man guilt" somewhere else . The guy is Korean and knows racism deeper than you'll ever meet in your lifetime if you're lucky. I'm not even going to go into my personal experience.

Point is I can flat list pure racism against me but who cares? I rise above it and get the last laugh EVERY FUCKING DAY that passes.

@Jkim, you gotta stop using that awesome avatar because you're heavily tempting me to go back to Olivia.

Quote from: jhkim;564040However wrong-headed or not the claims are about Golarion, a fucking internet thread isn't a political regulation.

It is, however, an attempt to gather support towards the idea of creating such political standards in the design and publication of role playing games, if not whatever ideas are deemed "okay" or "not okay" to play at your game table.

Quote from: Benoist;564047It is, however, an attempt to gather support towards the idea of creating such political standards in the design and publication of role playing games, if not whatever ideas are deemed "okay" or "not okay" to play at your game table.

Exactly.

JG

Quote from: S'mon;563804Cultural Marxist trolling by brainwashed pod-people is a pervasive problem on gaming bulletin boards.

Cultural Marxism?  Did you catch BT's brain disease?

I think the writers who created Golaria are just lazy. The fact that Golaria is pretty  blatantly racist is obvious from the get go but I believe its a product of lazy writing more than anything else. Nothing to get all up in arms about unless you expect more from the people writing your generic fantasy settings.

Quote from: MGuy;564078The fact that Golaria is pretty  blatantly racist is obvious from the get go

Prove it, then.

Prove that Golarion is a racist setting.

My response to a Gradivus post on tbp in the bullshit thread.
My post

QuoteOriginally Posted by Gradivus
"I'm sorry, but I just don't see the edition warring going on. Especially since Golarion the setting is pretty edition agnostic, and people do convert and run the Adventure Paths (which are often highly regarded) in 4e, though I have no personal experience with them."


All of Paizo's Pathfinder products are set in Golarion. The products can be converted to other systems, but I wouldn't say it is edition neutral.

In the end, that doesn't matter. Because from now on, some readers of any Pazio/Pathfinder threads here will have this association in the back of their minds.
Was that the goal? I don't know and wouldn't presume to say here, but that is the outcome.

If you want a different look at this thread I would suggest, and I think the OP would agree, to click on the link in his signature.

What a Mod thought of that.

Kai Tave

QuoteThen that's nobody's fault but Paizo's. Nobody made them put stereotypical tokenized gypsies and not!African tribesmen in their game. That was a choice they made and if that means some readers of Paizo's stuff have that association in the back of their minds from now on then hey, guess what, choices have consequences. Maybe next time they can do better.

Regardless, I challenge you to go back over this thread and find examples of people going "Oh man, Pathfinder is so racist. Not like [OTHER GAME] though! [OTHER GAME] is a perfect example of racial harmony unlike Pathfinder which is racist and therefore terrible." Highlighting a flaw in a game does not, the last time I checked, constitute edition warring.

Nope, no Edition warring bias there or impossible goalposts. None at all.

Quote from: The Traveller;563941This genius was actually a unionist from northern Ireland (part of the UK), and a more vicious gang of hatemongers you'll be hard pressed to find anywhere.

You're being racist to us Ulstermen? :confused:

Quote from: John Morrow;563959So, a person is creating a fantasy world populated with various ethnicities.  They have a few choices:

1) They include non-white cultures via analogues of real-world cultures, warts and all, that will inevitably draw upon real world stereotypes.  They get called racist for promoting negative stereotypes of non-whites.

2) They include non-white cultures via analogues of real-world cultures, scrubbed of their negatives, so that they are noble and admirable.  They get called racist for promoting unrealistic positive stereotypes of non-whites.

3) They include non-white cultures with entirely made-up cultures that inevitably include some elements of the culture normally associated with some other race.  They get called racist for robbing people of their authentic culture and presenting a blackface version of European culture.

4) They don't include non-white cultures at all.  They get called racist to leaving out non-white people.

Is there really any way to win this game without someone determined to find racism in the setting being able to claim that it's there?

You are correct, and that is a nice typology.

Quote from: jhkim;564040Is the claim here that if a private citizen posts on a board claiming that some RPG product is racist, then that somehow is "political regulation on your imagination"?  

However wrong-headed or not the claims are about Golarion, a fucking internet thread isn't a political regulation.  It is, in fact, their free speech rights.  Free speech means that people - being stupid - will sometimes say stupid things.  

Free speech on rpgnet? LOL.

Discourse on rpgnet is extremely heavily regulated. There are umpteen things you are not allowed to say, that the moderators will happily ban you for. Whereas calling Paizo racist is obviously permitted. It's not a level playing field.

Quote from: Dog Quixote;564068Cultural Marxism?  Did you catch BT's brain disease?

Even if you/they have never read Marcuse and Adorno, you/they still have the horns on your heads and the skulls on your lapels. You/they are the bad guys.