Quote from: Simlasa;872244Maybe you could say that, with no Jedi's around, the Force has gone for decades without a direct manifestation... but now, all of a sudden it's popping up loud n' strong in teenagers... who scare the crap out of everyone when they manifest these weird new powers, lets call them 'psykers'... and so the space nazis, having performed 'exterminatus' on some wayward planets, start rounding up these 'psykers' and shipping them off to feed to this ancient looking guy who seems stuck in his throne... but then, when things are looking very dark for the heretical rebels, Luke Skywalker returns with news of this hyperspace entity named Ka-horn who he's been in contact with that promises to help them take down the space nazis and the old guy in the throne...

Luke's a Tzeentch guy all the way.  Sure, he's got a temper on him like his old man, but after he refused to strike down Vader, doubtful he'd go the route of Khorne.   Luke also is as self-confident to a fault as the old man, and will think he can control Chao...err the Dark Side.  Practically tailor made for the Tzeentchster.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;872620Movie suffers heavily from lack of knowing what the hell is going on. It's like someone said, "the prequels had to much exposition, let's not do any of that".

Yeah, they forgot to actually watch Episode 4 during the scenes at Ben Kenobi's House, Gran Moff Tarkin's briefing room, Hyperspace trip to Alderaan, Hyperspace trip to Yavin, Rebel Command briefing room.  You know, where the audience gets to see exactly what the fuck is happening and why.

Quote from: CRKrueger;872637Luke's a Tzeentch guy all the way.  Sure, he's got a temper on him like his old man, but after he refused to strike down Vader, doubtful he'd go the route of Khorne.   Luke also is as self-confident to a fault as the old man, and will think he can control Chao...err the Dark Side.  Practically tailor made for the Tzeentchster.

Don't forget that the first movie that introduces Luke is called The New Hope.  Clearly a prophet of Tzeentch that is well on his way to deamon pricedom.

Quote from: CRKrueger;872640Yeah, they forgot to actually watch Episode 4 during the scenes at Ben Kenobi's House, Gran Moff Tarkin's briefing room, Hyperspace trip to Alderaan, Hyperspace trip to Yavin, Rebel Command briefing room.  You know, where the audience gets to see exactly what the fuck is happening and why.

There is q tiny bit of that, but it's to futher plot, not deepen plot.

I think the biggest issue, other than Rey being a master of fucking everything (she's more skilled than Anakin, Luke, and Han combined, if you look at them over the course of the first two films they're in) is the destruction of the Hosia system.

Alderaan being destroyed works because we have Leia right there. She's our emotional anchor. Her pleas and reactions to Tarkin's actions give us a reason to care. The Hosia system?  A quick shot of a person before they get vaporized.

Yay.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;872654There is q tiny bit of that, but it's to futher plot, not deepen plot.

I think the biggest issue, other than Rey being a master of fucking everything (she's more skilled than Anakin, Luke, and Han combined, if you look at them over the course of the first two films they're in) is the destruction of the Hosia system.

Alderaan being destroyed works because we have Leia right there. She's our emotional anchor. Her pleas and reactions to Tarkin's actions give us a reason to care. The Hosia system?  A quick shot of a person before they get vaporized.

Yay.

That the New Republic capital and fleet were destroyed is not important within the narrative of Ep VII.  It is enough for the audience to know that super Death Star destroys planets - good guys need to blow it up.  Any further exposition on the galactic consequences is pretty much irrelevant to the story being told.

It will presumably be extremely important to the narrative of Ep VIII.  I would expect the opening crawl to lay out that the capital is destroyed, the First Order is gobbling up star systems, etc. and for there to be scenes in the movie expounding on the galactic consequences.

Quote from: Old One Eye;872660That the New Republic capital and fleet were destroyed

They had their entire fleet sitting on a planet?

One thing about SW VII - it's an incredibly dumb movie (I had to see it twice, taking my son the 2nd time), and the more I learn about it, the dumber it gets. I'm not particularly looking forward to taking him to see VIII. It's vastly stupider than anything in I-VI.

Quote from: S'mon;872686They had their entire fleet sitting on a planet?

One thing about SW VII - it's an incredibly dumb movie (I had to see it twice, taking my son the 2nd time), and the more I learn about it, the dumber it gets. I'm not particularly looking forward to taking him to see VIII. It's vastly stupider than anything in I-VI.

It's dumb because, along with the Prequels, a lot of the information that should have been in the movie got shunted to tie-in books, toys, and (presumably) games.

For example: The planet destroyed is Hosnian Prime. It was the Republic capital, hosting the Senate, but if you did not have the Visual Dictionary you did not have any chance of learning this- or that the Republic moves its seat on a regular basis. (So the members have another election, form a new Senate, and move the seat to another planet. Nice job, First Order.)

Again: The Resistance is akin to the Volunteer Group in China before US entrance into WW2. They get some covert aid from Republic elements, but are otherwise independent of the Republic and thus are deniable by it. This is why the Resistance is have the bad time of it that it does in the film, but that's in the Visual Dictionary.

(Or, now, in Wookiepedia.)

Plinket's knock on the Prequels for doing this shit applies here, and it's a big strike against the film for repeating this mistake (the mistake being lazy in your writing and direction; you gotta do this literary lubrication to make the story run properly). Relying on external adjuncts is bad practices.

Quote from: S'mon;872686They had their entire fleet sitting on a planet?

Ships in orbit would have been destroyed when the planet's core ignited and it exploded.  Still, it stretches credibility that the Republic would have its entire fleet just sitting in orbit around the current capital with an entire galaxy to cover.  It's far more likely that they would have forces forward deployed to trouble areas like real world navies do today.

Quote from: yosemitemike;872695Ships in orbit would have been destroyed when the planet's core ignited and it exploded.  Still, it stretches credibility that the Republic would have its entire fleet just sitting in orbit around the current capital with an entire galaxy to cover.  It's far more likely that they would have forces forward deployed to trouble areas like real world navies do today.

If the Republic is operating on the assumption that the Empire has been disarmed and are covertly funding the Resistance to check the First Order, they may not have much of a fleet to begin with.

The wbole thing is really aping WW2, with the FO being the Nazi party taking over Germany. They aren't even trying for subtlety any more.

Quote from: yosemitemike;872695Ships in orbit would have been destroyed when the planet's core ignited and it exploded.

They didn't say anything in the movie about it igniting planets' cores, and there was no sign of a fleet in orbit (and why would the fleet orbit the capital, unless they were expecting an attack & had massed there?).

Quote from: Warboss Squee;872698The wbole thing is really aping WW2, with the FO being the Nazi party taking over Germany. They aren't even trying for subtlety any more.

  The ancillary material makes it even more obvious, with the Empire being reduced to a rump state by disarmament and harsh reparations, and Leia as a Churchill analog, being the only person in the Republic government who takes the threat of the First Order seriously.

  Part of my problem with this is that you can't get to this whole setup without a good analog to World War I, a conflict that both physically and spiritually devastated a civilization. The Star Wars Galaxy had that--it was called the Clone Wars. It's been noted that Lucas modeled the rise of Palpatine in part of the rise of Hitler (along with Caesar and Nixon), but he did it with a bit more creativity and subtlety than the Sequel Trilogy--and that's saying something.

  I'm also a little disturbed by the undercurrent of cynicism that runs through some of the cut/ancillary material that I've seen, such as comments in the novelization that most of the galaxy's people don't want freedom, the First Order having allies in the Republic Senate itself, and Leia fearing for her life if she takes her case to the Senate in person. I'm hoping that reflects the imbalance in the Force that Lor San Tekka notes in a cut line, which is part of why I'm reserving overall judgment on this at least until Episode VIII is out.

Quote from: S'mon;872686They had their entire fleet sitting on a planet?

One thing about SW VII - it's an incredibly dumb movie (I had to see it twice, taking my son the 2nd time), and the more I learn about it, the dumber it gets. I'm not particularly looking forward to taking him to see VIII. It's vastly stupider than anything in I-VI.

Obviously aping Pearl Harbor.  Star Wars is chock full of WWII references.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;872691It's dumb because, along with the Prequels, a lot of the information that should have been in the movie got shunted to tie-in books, toys, and (presumably) games.

That it is Hosnia is completely irrelevant for the purpose of the movie.  Only Star Wars nerds like us who spend our free time engrossed in every trivial detail will care.  For the casual fan, all that matters is the bad guys have a super laser that blows up planets.  I just asked my wife if she cared what the planet was, and she
replied, "What difference does that make?  I want to know why C3PO has a red arm."  

Ep VIII is where exposition of the galactic politics belongs, and I expect it there.

From what I understand of the New Republic, they did not want a huge military like the Empire had. Therefore, you end up with a small fleet that you can easily annihilate. Leia was kind of considered an outsider in that regard. She knew all too well that you would need a strong military to resist any attempted takeover by the remnant Empire, now the First Order. I think we'll end up with a very dark Episode VIII now.

I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but I understand that it's main purpose wasn't an original story, it was to get fans onboard again after the franchise took a hit after the prequels. They just decided to take cool stuff from all the previous movies, the now-defunct EU, and The Clone Wars, and toss it together like a salad. Judging from its box office success (first movie in US history that will pass $800M), mission accomplished for Disney.

I've already considered several in my imagination/nightmares.

They all hinge around doing 80% of everything in TFA differently, and demonstrating how little TFA makes any sense.

Much like my imagined Fury Road games.

My ideas for Star Wars games are mainly about not liking much anything from the films once the Ewoks started defeating stormtroopers.

Things I actually liked that TFA introduced:

Ruined Star Destroyer
Eyeglasses alien woman
Temper tantrums with lightsaber
um... ummm... nope, that's about it.

Things that would not exist in a game I ran or a movie I liked:

every last thing about Starkiller Base
anything called "The Prime Order"

Things that would suffer and probably be destroyed/replaced in my version:

incompetent emotionally-adolescent commanders
lame Sith wanna-bes

Quote from: Old One Eye;872716Obviously aping Pearl Harbor.  Star Wars is chock full of WWII references.

Yep. The First Order is the Space SS, as reformed by grown-up Hitler Youth Werewolf units.

QuoteThat it is Hosnia is completely irrelevant for the purpose of the movie.  Only Star Wars nerds like us who spend our free time engrossed in every trivial detail will care.  For the casual fan, all that matters is the bad guys have a super laser that blows up planets.  I just asked my wife if she cared what the planet was, and she
replied, "What difference does that make?  I want to know why C3PO has a red arm."

Agreed on Hosnia, in narrative terms. As for 3PO, it's down to JJ and Hideo Kojima being fans of each other, having a sit-down, and making mutual references to each others' projects. (MGSV has 3PO's missing arm as an option for Snake's prosthetic arm.)  

QuoteEp VIII is where exposition of the galactic politics belongs, and I expect it there.

Works for me.