http://skyraiders.net/
Interesting that the Hickmans seem to be playing both sides. They're going ahead with Dragonlance while creating their own IP that doesn't seem to be owned by WOTC.
https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/news/dragonlance-classic-hickman-weis-wizards-of-the-coast
Been searching for more information on this.
Has anything else been released about this?
Enworld has an article and a thread on this
Not yet. I suspect they wont release more information before the kickstarter to get people to check it out just to find out what is going on.
Anyone know if Path of Exile game resembles a prelude to this game thats if they had airships of course?!
Quote from: Cephyr on September 12, 2021, 01:00:48 PM
Been searching for more information on this.
Has anything else been released about this?
Enworld has an article and a thread on this
Yeah, but I don't read ENWorld anymore, ever since they went stupid. So can anyone summarize what it says?
I am getting Death Gate Cycle vibes from this.
is that the one with Hugh the Hand?
Its been 20 years but the wiki says yes:
QuoteIn the Realm of sky, humans, elves, and dwarves battle for control of precious water—traversing a world of airborne islands on currents of elven magic and the backs of mammoth dragons. But soon great magical forces will begin to rend the fabric of this delicate land.
From what's been said the game starts at a former prison colony kept on a distant island patrolled by airships.
Those airships that used to patrol the island have left and not returned giving the former inmates the chance at freedom.
It sounds like they gain access to an airship of their own that they need to rebuild and maintain and are looking forward to returning home now that they have the means to do so.
Does this mean they're political dissidents or prisoners considered too dangerous to keep imprisoned in their homeland and too important to kill?
Still plenty of questions to answer ahead!
Quote from: Cephyr on September 13, 2021, 06:01:31 AM
From what's been said the game starts at a former prison colony kept on a distant island patrolled by airships.
Those airships that used to patrol the island have left and not returned giving the former inmates the chance at freedom.
It sounds like they gain access to an airship of their own that they need to rebuild and maintain and are looking forward to returning home now that they have the means to do so.
Does this mean they're political dissidents or prisoners considered too dangerous to keep imprisoned in their homeland and too important to kill?
Still plenty of questions to answer ahead!
Sounds like a solid campaign hook. Might snag that for a game, if I'm willing to allow airships, or substitute something else for them.
Quote from: Cephyr on September 13, 2021, 06:01:31 AM
It sounds like they gain access to an airship of their own that they need to rebuild and maintain and are looking forward to returning home now that they have the means to do so.
Hm, reminds me of Matt Leacock's Forbidden Desert.
Latest release seems to indicate the playable races.
I don't see elves among them.
Need to double check!
Edit:
Characters are of Sentient Ancestry namely Dextean (physical), Faean (magically?) or Shapen
Dextean (Force Sentients) Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes and Ogres
Faean (Magic Sentients) of which shapen are part of,
Shapen- Dragonborn, Halfling and Tieflings
There's probably more to this than that so we'll see.
Beastean (Force Determinants) basically animals
Aethean (Magic Determinants) magical creatures such as Dragons, pegasi...
Sounds like they're coming up with something to replace the alignment system.
I'm getting a real bad feeling about this.
It's a bit early, hopefully this will improve.
Not sure if this works, but the latest information release.
Descended from dangerous exiles, criminals and dissidents, the eclectic peoples of Abarax look across the deadly seas to the empty horizons. Aeroships once sailed from distant lands bringing more prisoners and supplies from those far shores. With them came news like rain on a parched soil of the fabled lands from which they descended. More than that ... they brought the promise of hope and a return to a home they more felt than knew.
But the Aeroships have long since ceased sailing the skies from across the sea. Hope was replaced by fear and wild speculation. Immediate need came to outweigh duty to distant nations that had abandoned them. The jailors became desperately afraid for their own survival in the harsh climate of their island prison. The jailors themselves disagreed as to the proper course which eventually erupted into armed conflict. In the end, they opened the barred doors and emptied their dungeons, in a frantic bid to recruit to their cause the very prisoners they had so long oppressed.
Ultimately, survival mandated an uneasy truce. The bloodied Erinyes Coast settled into cultivation, crafts and trade between enclave kingdoms. The sons and daughters of convicts descended from a dozen rumored nations spread cautiously out from their decaying dungeons. They formed clans, villages, city-states and petty kingdoms of their own aggrandizement, domination, protection, and survival.
That was long ago and many generations back. Yet still the descendants of prisoners, jailers and slaves alike look out from the shores of the Erinyes Coast, searching the horizon. Someday, they believe, the storied aeroships to appear among the clouds. Someday, they will dock at the ruins of the ancient quays in Iron Bay. Someday the Aeroships will take them back to the fabled lands called home. Someday.
The Erinyes Coast is the south-eastern extend of the great island known as Abarax. The island is said to be nearly five hundred miles from east to west with a prominent peninsula jutting out north-westerly direction from the body of the land mass.
The Erinyes Coast itself measures 132 miles from The Drop at the eastern tip of the P'tar Peninsula to the westmost reaches of the Middle Territories and 104 miles from Bastion Keep in the northern end of Spirit Vale to the southernmost tip of Edoneh's forest. Mount Gunung, an active volcano and its associated ranges of mountains and hills forms the western boundary of the Erinyes Coast with the remainder of the island generally known as The Wilds beyond.
Khran, Bastion, Defiance and Stormhold were anciently dungeon keeps and complexes where prisoners were housed. Khran and Stronghold were the most secure as they held prisoners under tight restriction. Bastion and Defiance were larger complexes and used to house convicts of a less dangerous nature, using prisoners to work farms either in Spirit Vale or the eastern slopes.
The P'tar was previously known as Eastbriar during the height of the Exile. It served a dual purpose. It was first and foremost an elegant retreat for the Keepers – the staff and families who were in charge of prison operations. Secondly, it was a carefully designed sanctuary and defensible refuge into which these same families could retreat and await rescue in the event of an uncontrollable prisoner uprising.
Termina, the original port city on Iron Harbor, is now a ruin after the Possession Wars and largely abandoned by the living although there is a Tiefling clan who still inhabits it. Its main population, however, remains Sojourning Spirits of the dead.
--Tracy & Laura Hickman
Newest article listed below
Below Decks:
Ethos vs. Alignment
A Dragonborn Mechanic adjusts 5e Alignment.
Consider this: the vilest, evil acts in the history of the world were performed by people who believed – with absolute conviction – that they were either right or doing good.
Evil is a judgement that we often apply to others – but never to ourselves. Each of us believes we are the hero of our own story and that we are fully justified in our actions. This especially goes for thoughts and motivations of those whom others – on the outside – may recognize as evil.
This can also apply to perspectives on cultures. The Barbarian culture on Abarax, for example, has a strict and, from their perspective, rather progressive set of laws that recognized equally the rights of ownership and politics to all their clan members regardless of gender. It's great if you're inside the group. However, for everyone OUTSIDE their clan, those rights most definitely do not apply. If you're a barbarian -- then the barbarians are a good and just people. If you're not a barbarian -- well you don't count as much more than a target.
There are nine basic Ethos in the game, each of which is paired with similar Alignments in 5e. However, the subjective morality concepts of 'Good', 'Evil' and 'Neutral' in the context of PCs and NPCs have been replaced with the terms Inclusive, Exclusive and Objective.
Inclusive: (Subjective External) Accepts the idea that others outside our Ethos may be partners and included in our group. Inclusive cultures are pluralistic or multicultural societies: conditions in which two or more groups, principles, sources of authority, etc., can coexist either homogenously or individually as a single group.
This ethos conflicts with Exclusive cultures. Inclusive cultures prefer the 'you and me' to the 'us against them.' You may substitute this ethos for any 'good alignment' in 5e, but with this caveat: not all inclusive Ethos may be considered 'good.' For example: an Inclusive ethos could potentially attempt to include groups that are, themselves, destructive and poisonous to the rest of the group.
Objective: Objective Strives to see the world objectively without internal bias. Substitute this ethos for any 'neutral' alignment in 5e.
Exclusive: (Subjective Internal or self-referential) Believes that groups are exclusive and in constant conflict. They believe in the superiority of one group, nation, or ideology.
This ethos thinks in terms of conflict, preferring the 'us' against 'them' to any form of 'us against them' to the 'you and me.' Substitute this ethos for any 'Evil' alignment in 5e but with a similar caveat: a righteous king could make a strong leader in troubled times when a society is threatened from the outside.
From these ethos concepts, combining them with the more standard concepts of Lawful (Ordered), Neutral and Chaotic (Entropic) gives us the following sets of Ethos in the game.
Lawful Inclusive (Lawful Good): This is the province of paladins. Rules which proscribe the giving of righteous service to the deserving downtrodden.
Lawful Objective (Lawful Neutral): Ethics is determined by the law. Laws exist to insure justice between all parties.
Lawful Exclusive (Lawful Evil): The lawful right of the state or sovereign to procure power or wealth to themselves.
Neutral Inclusive (Neutral Good): Serving others based on their needs as opposed to a specific set of rules. Clerics, Druids.
Neutral Objective (True Neutral): Striving for balance in all aspects of life and among all living things.
Neutral Exclusive (Neutral Evil): Piracy. Take what you need from anyone who has it.
Chaotic Inclusive (Chaotic Good): Help those in need regardless of their Ethos if you feel like it.
Chaotic Objective (Chaotic Neutral): Go the way the wind blows. Take nothing seriously and never take sides. Survival of nature. Animal Ethos.
Chaotic Exclusive (Chaotic Evil): Empowering self by tearing down others. Anarchists.
These ethos are good starting points for NPCs and Characters in Skyraiders but they are not fixed points. As the game progresses, your actions within the game will shift your Ethos ... sometimes with dire consequences.
Quote from: Cephyr on September 17, 2021, 10:39:26 AM
Sounds like they're coming up with something to replace the alignment system.
They only need two alignments: Woke and Fascist.
"..the very prisoners they so long oppressed. "
Quote from: Cephyr on October 09, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
Newest article listed below
Below Decks:
Ethos vs. Alignment
A Dragonborn Mechanic adjusts 5e Alignment.
Consider this: the vilest, evil acts in the history of the world were performed by people who believed – with absolute conviction – that they were either right or doing good.
Evil is a judgement that we often apply to others – but never to ourselves. Each of us believes we are the hero of our own story and that we are fully justified in our actions. This especially goes for thoughts and motivations of those whom others – on the outside – may recognize as evil.
And yet the author states that these acts really were evil. It's almost as if they believed in objective good and evil, and then make a huge sidestep to justify this... whatever it is.
QuoteThis can also apply to perspectives on cultures. The Barbarian culture on Abarax, for example, has a strict and, from their perspective, rather progressive set of laws that recognized equally the rights of ownership and politics to all their clan members regardless of gender. It's great if you're inside the group. However, for everyone OUTSIDE their clan, those rights most definitely do not apply. If you're a barbarian -- then the barbarians are a good and just people. If you're not a barbarian -- well you don't count as much more than a target.
There are nine basic Ethos in the game, each of which is paired with similar Alignments in 5e. However, the subjective morality concepts of 'Good', 'Evil' and 'Neutral' in the context of PCs and NPCs have been replaced with the terms Inclusive, Exclusive and Objective.
Inclusive: (Subjective External) Accepts the idea that others outside our Ethos may be partners and included in our group. Inclusive cultures are pluralistic or multicultural societies: conditions in which two or more groups, principles, sources of authority, etc., can coexist either homogenously or individually as a single group.
This ethos conflicts with Exclusive cultures. Inclusive cultures prefer the 'you and me' to the 'us against them.' You may substitute this ethos for any 'good alignment' in 5e, but with this caveat: not all inclusive Ethos may be considered 'good.' For example: an Inclusive ethos could potentially attempt to include groups that are, themselves, destructive and poisonous to the rest of the group.
Objective: Objective Strives to see the world objectively without internal bias. Substitute this ethos for any 'neutral' alignment in 5e.
Exclusive: (Subjective Internal or self-referential) Believes that groups are exclusive and in constant conflict. They believe in the superiority of one group, nation, or ideology.
This ethos thinks in terms of conflict, preferring the 'us' against 'them' to any form of 'us against them' to the 'you and me.' Substitute this ethos for any 'Evil' alignment in 5e but with a similar caveat: a righteous king could make a strong leader in troubled times when a society is threatened from the outside.
From these ethos concepts, combining them with the more standard concepts of Lawful (Ordered), Neutral and Chaotic (Entropic) gives us the following sets of Ethos in the game.
Lawful Inclusive (Lawful Good): This is the province of paladins. Rules which proscribe the giving of righteous service to the deserving downtrodden.
Lawful Objective (Lawful Neutral): Ethics is determined by the law. Laws exist to insure justice between all parties.
Lawful Exclusive (Lawful Evil): The lawful right of the state or sovereign to procure power or wealth to themselves.
Neutral Inclusive (Neutral Good): Serving others based on their needs as opposed to a specific set of rules. Clerics, Druids.
Neutral Objective (True Neutral): Striving for balance in all aspects of life and among all living things.
Neutral Exclusive (Neutral Evil): Piracy. Take what you need from anyone who has it.
Chaotic Inclusive (Chaotic Good): Help those in need regardless of their Ethos if you feel like it.
Chaotic Objective (Chaotic Neutral): Go the way the wind blows. Take nothing seriously and never take sides. Survival of nature. Animal Ethos.
Chaotic Exclusive (Chaotic Evil): Empowering self by tearing down others. Anarchists.
These ethos are good starting points for NPCs and Characters in Skyraiders but they are not fixed points. As the game progresses, your actions within the game will shift your Ethos ... sometimes with dire consequences.
Well, that's certainly an improvement! [/s]
Now we get to argue about who is deserving of inclusion, who is downtrodden, what is righteous, etc, etc... These replacement terms seem like just renaming the old alignments and clarifying nothing.
So why not reduce this to Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic only instead?
Leave it to the individual GM/DM to ask them what part of that alignment that character is thus they could be good, evil or indifferent and they only have to worry about whether they're Lawful, Chaotic or Indifferent to their alignment?
The Exclusion. Inclusion and whatever aren't needed, let the player decide how and why their character reacts like they do would that work better than this?
Because in most D&D games you have absolute cosmological Good and Evil and any action is attuned to one of those or neither.
Ergo that bring metaphysical consequences especially if transcendent forces are quite active in mundane world and in D&D they generally are.
And also:
QuoteEvil is a judgement that we often apply to others – but never to ourselves. Each of us believes we are the hero of our own story and that we are fully justified in our actions. This especially goes for thoughts and motivations of those whom others – on the outside – may recognize as evil.
That's some absolute bullshit invented by some cynical atheists. If we all believe we are truly justified we would all be psychotic narcissist, and what can I say if someone believes it - he must be really really deluded. But for vast majority of mankind, being imperfect to own standard, and therefore you know things like regret, concioussness and so on is constant daily struggle. Feeling of inadequacy towards either personal, societal or transcendent standards.
Now in D&D problem with Good and Evil is - they are equal forces. In most real religions evil is not real, lacking any substance, it's just discord, deprivation within ordered good universe caused by wills of lesser beings. So Good is Right and Evil is Wrong, and that's not something one can say about D&D world like taking objective look on it from presented cosmology level.
Angels place in Reality is as natural and proper as Devils in D&D, and Talos is just as fine deity as Tyr. So maybe some Light - Dark, or Life - Death, would be better but then whatever.
Names are just names, and they are always once-removed from realities they try to describe.
Pity I can't like posts.
The View Aloft:
Haven: Remnants of Power
The old Plantation north of Termina became the refuge known as Haven.
HAVEN
Primary Cultural Influence: Human
Other Influences: Wood Dwarf & Gnome
Modifiers: Dexterity +1 / Wisdom +1 / Charisma -1
Languages: Common, Dwarven & Gnomish
Professions: Bards (40%), Clerics, Crafter, Fighters, Merchants, Nobels (20%), Paladin (15%) Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard
Skills: (Pick 2) Wood Shaping, Engineering, Edible Plants, Social Grace, Bartering, Seminary, Education, Scrapper
Ethos: Any
History
Before the Fall, the region near the base of Spirit Vale was dominated primarily by the Plantation. This was a Keeper's farming facility where prisoners were brought to work a large area of farmland both to the west of the Plantation compound and further afield in the Spirit Vale to the north. Only prisoners who were of little security risk were allowed on the Plantation. This included inmates who were of the noble class and for whom physical labor in the fields was an unaccustomed and difficult experience. Nevertheless, conditions for the prisoners on the Plantation was far less harsh than those experienced in the stricter and far more punitive facilities such as Bastion or Khyran.
Immediately after the Fall, the Plantation faired better than most of the other Keeper facilities on Abarax. It had fields of crops and storage facilities on the Plantation which could supply their needs over time. Unfortunately, as time passed with no relief ships coming over the horizon, the other Keeper facilities – especially in the main city of Terminus – soon grew desperate for even the most basic needs.
Terminus itself became the focal point of the Possession Wars that followed resulting in its repeated sacking by the various factions that arose from the prisons. Keepers in Terminus fled primarily toward Eastbriar (now known as P'tar) as it had been their plan to hold out there until relief came from across the sea. However, there were a number of Keepers who were cut off from the Eastbriar Road who were forced to flee toward the Plantation. There, they hoped to establish contact with the Eastbriar Keepers and rejoin them there.
This was a doomed plan from the beginning. Those Keepers who fled to Eastbriar were soon overrun, a fate which ended in the tragedy known afterward as 'The Drop.' The Plantation itself soon was the target of the desperate pillaging armies of the Possession Wars but by the time they arrived, much of their strength had been spent. The Plantation buildings were largely destroyed but most of its fields remained intact and the invaders took only what they could carry leaving much behind.
Thus, was Haven born out of materials salvaged from the Plantation ruins. A town was constructed to the west of the original buildings largely comprised of human former inmates mixed with former Keepers as well as Wood Carver dwarves and several gnome clans. It became an early agricultural trade source as well as an important crossroads between the mechanical expertise of Salvage to the northeast and the other city-states to the south and west. Its eclectic heritage lives on today as a town where anything might happen.
Culture
Ethos. Haven itself was built of a hodgepodge of values that covers the entire spectrum of ethos. The best and the worst are found among them. Any Clan Ethos is acceptable as a cultural ethos in Haven.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common, Wood Dwarf and gnome. Humans typically learn the languages of other peoples they deal with, including obscure dialects. They are fond of sprinkling their speech with words borrowed from other tongues: Dragonborn curses, Fae musical expressions, Barong sayings, and so on.
Governance: After the Possession Wars, the descendants of the Keepers were able to reestablish their authority more strongly in Haven than any other place on Abarax. Three families emerged as controlling factions: the Bourdains, the Valshons and the Remanis. These three families have alternately allied or been at war privately for over a century but somehow have managed (often grudgingly) to maintain control of Haven. They have managed down the years to firmly root a local dynasty based on hereditary rule and an iron fist. They present a benevolent façade so long as everyone in the town pays protection to the masters and mistresses of Haven House. They preach the return of the imperial ships through the Imperator Chapel, which is patronized largely by a nobility of Keeper descendants and those who are trying to curry favor with them. Their rule is maintained through the strength of the Order of Haven -- a grandiose name given to a brutal gang of noble-sanctioned thugs dressed under a very thin layer of finery.
In more recent years, however, the struggle between the three families has spilled into blood and increased hardship for the people in the town. Tariffs and taxes have grown unbearable and the town has the feeling of a bottled fireball waiting to explode.
QuoteChaotic Exclusive (Chaotic Evil): Empowering self by tearing down others.
That's basically Woke, right?
Sounds about right yes.
Quote from: Wrath of God on October 16, 2021, 10:54:42 AM
Now in D&D problem with Good and Evil is - they are equal forces. In most real religions evil is not real, lacking any substance, it's just discord, deprivation within ordered good universe caused by wills of lesser beings. So Good is Right and Evil is Wrong, and that's not something one can say about D&D world like taking objective look on it from presented cosmology level.
Angels place in Reality is as natural and proper as Devils in D&D, and Talos is just as fine deity as Tyr. So maybe some Light - Dark, or Life - Death, would be better but then whatever.
Names are just names, and they are always once-removed from realities they try to describe.
Is Tracy Hickman writing the ethos section? This is a dichotomy he's
never been able to reconcile in his D&D work, and he's swung back and forth on it--at one point, adopting a view of Dragonlance where Good is right and the will of the High God, and Evil is a rebellion against it and a deprivation, and thereafter, moving to a point of view where Good and Evil are both outlooks on how souls should progress and are fundamental parts of reality.
Quote from: Godfather Punk on October 17, 2021, 07:27:49 AM
QuoteChaotic Exclusive (Chaotic Evil): Empowering self by tearing down others.
That's basically Woke, right?
It includes them, but also pretty much everyone that posts on the internet too.
Quote from: HappyDaze on October 17, 2021, 11:41:04 AM
Quote from: Godfather Punk on October 17, 2021, 07:27:49 AM
QuoteChaotic Exclusive (Chaotic Evil): Empowering self by tearing down others.
That's basically Woke, right?
It includes them, but also pretty much everyone that posts on the internet too.
Once again you fall prey to the fallacy of projection. It's not everyone... just you.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 17, 2021, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on October 17, 2021, 11:41:04 AM
Quote from: Godfather Punk on October 17, 2021, 07:27:49 AM
QuoteChaotic Exclusive (Chaotic Evil): Empowering self by tearing down others.
That's basically Woke, right?
It includes them, but also pretty much everyone that posts on the internet too.
Once again you fall prey to the fallacy of projection. It's not everyone... just you.
You're a great example of my point.
QuoteIs Tracy Hickman writing the ethos section? This is a dichotomy he's never been able to reconcile in his D&D work, and he's swung back and forth on it--at one point, adopting a view of Dragonlance where Good is right and the will of the High God, and Evil is a rebellion against it and a deprivation, and thereafter, moving to a point of view where Good and Evil are both outlooks on how souls should progress and are fundamental parts of reality.
I have no idea. I just pointed out D&D alignments and morality involved with it, was never well fitting for any real life moral/cosmological systems.
Hickman probably was struggling between own Mormonic ideals, and weird pantheism of basic D&D.
Hope this works (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/skyraiders/skyraiders-of-abarax-a-5e-world-from-tracy-and-laura-hickman?ref=BiggerCake)
Cynder: Trade Town of the Warden
Cynder is located primarily on an island at the confluence of two rivers: the Rhynal (or Lesser Rhynal) that runs primarily down from the north and the mountains of Khran and the Senshal which flows eastward from Defiance. Both rivers converge here to form the Greater or Lower Rhynal river which flows through the ruins of Termina before emptying into the Iron Harbor. As the first safe fording point of the Rhynal above Termina and sitting at the crossroads of P'tar to the east, Stormhold to the south, Defiance to the west and both Khran and Haven northward, Cynder is a central place of trade and exchange.
The town is governed by the Warden, a term that is a holdover from the ancient days of the Keepers. Order, such as it is, is maintained by the Wardsmen. These officially sanctioned thugs are notoriously bad tempered and have an understand of the law which is both inaccurate and highly situational. Things hadgotten so bad in the recent past that the Ogre's of Stronghold have established an Ogre Stand near the Warden's compound so that their Shan-Ri (paladins) may deal more effectively with the more egregious questions of honor an justice. Their Stand is also near the Temple of Masradal, the center of the local religion. While the Temple does not reflect the Ogre's own beliefs, they have sworn to uphold its sanctity.
The Warden's position has not formal succession: sometimes it is passed down from parent to child but it often changes hands more violently. If there is an influence over the position, it comes from the Morgan Family. The Morgan's are the primary influence in the town as owners of Morgan Farm, Morgan's Mill and both the Upper and Lower Docks.
The primary export industry of the town is Havacher Spirits, a distillery near the upper docks. However, trade itself is the primary business of Cynder. The Drover's Guild maintains their most important station here. The Warden along with the Morgan family sponsors a Festival each year before the rain season, attracting trade merchants from all over the Erinyes Coast.