Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;982295To paraphrase Sir Lawrence Olivier's comment to Dustin Hoffman, "Next time, try role-playing."

Sure but so what if someone wants to have a few skills written on their sheet to help them think out their PC and RPing? What skin off your back is that exactly?

Oh wait, you linked to a thread by BV, the guy who thinks how he plays pretend makes him more of a man than others. Got'cha.

* checks watch * Yep, right on time.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;982297You're a 4th level fighter.  You're a Hero.  You do Hero-type things as well as a Hero would.

How well do you cook?  Well, back in the day the usual would be to ask the referee, "How good a cook am I?"  A dice roll makes you either good, average, or bad.  Then hilarity and mayhem ensues.  "Greatest swordsman in the Duchy, can't boil water without burning it!"  That would lead to awesome role play!

That's what we always did and it was oftentimes hilarious.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;982304* checks watch * Yep, right on time.

I could have set my watch to your 'just RP' it response. And I haven't even been here long.

I actually agree with you that background, etc can all just be RP'ed but as I said if someone wants a minor bit of flavour semi-mechanic in the game to note on their sheet what skin off your back is it? Answer? You've got nothing.

But if you weren't complaining about how others play 50 percent of your posts wouldn't exist.  (Cue the 'you're the same!' rant from CKruger).

Quote from: Voros;982348I could have set my watch to your 'just RP' it response. And I haven't even been here long.

I actually agree with you that background, etc can all just be RP'ed but as I said if someone wants a minor bit of flavour semi-mechanic in the game to note on their sheet what skin off your back is it? Answer? You've got nothing.

But if you weren't complaining about how others play 50 percent of your posts wouldn't exist.  (Cue the 'you're the same!' rant from CKruger).

Well, complaining about how other people post or the topic of their posts, is a significant chunk of your own posts, Voros, you have to admit that (and that you felt it necessary to preempt the point is admission itself).

Also, what skin is it off your back if Gronan plays differently, or if his stated opinion is that he wouldn't like someone else's way of playing?  You got nothing either.  Your stated opinion that you don't like his stated opinion is worth and means just as much, or as little.

But, for the topic, I understand the "If you want to be a Duelist, a Knight, a Berserker, roleplay it" but I've never really bought it.  The reason is, to paraphrase the kid from The Invincibles - "If everyone is Zoro, then no one is."  If I can pick up a rapier and carve a "Z" into someone in one round, and be just as adept at swinging a War Maul and firing a Longbow, fighting naked and wearing Full-Plate, then we're moving into the realm of hyper-competency that hits the low range of Supers like Batman.

Meh.

Humans can get good at a lot of things, but, with all due respect to Heinlein, not everyone, not even all PCs, should be a polymath.  Choosing what to be good in, thus realizing you may be less good in something else is part of "Consequences for One's Actions and Choices", perhaps the most important and fundamental one.  The fact that this is overlooked by many Old Schoolers is a bit of a blind spot, I think.   Move one step away from OD&D, the inevitable result is not Pathfinder.

For example, if you want a super light fantasy system, I think the careers system of BoL gives meaningful choice and consequence better than the strict class system of OD&D.

Quote from: CRKrueger;982374Well, complaining about how other people post or the topic of their posts, is a significant chunk of your own posts, Voros, you have to admit that (and that you felt it necessary to preempt the point is admission itself).

Hah true enough. I do feel our arguments are going in circles. I'll try to let it go more often.

Quote from: CRKrueger;982374Choosing what to be good in, thus realizing you may be less good in something else is part of "Consequences for One's Actions and Choices", perhaps the most important and fundamental one.  The fact that this is overlooked by many Old Schoolers is a bit of a blind spot, I think.

Not by this old schooler.

Some of you guys know I'm a trainer. Now, some of my lifters go to powerlifting meets. I took these two guys, Aron and Matt. Aron has a PhD in Economics, Matt has a Diploma of Civil Engineering. Aron opens with 160kg squat, Matt's doing 210. They chat. Aron finds out that when Matt started with us, he already had squatted 165. He says, "So basically, you started where I took four years to get to."

Matt being a very positive helpful guy was quiet and searching for nice words. I just said, "Yes, but Matt doesn't have a PhD." Now, that's no insult to Matt. He's an intelligent and educated guy. But what it comes down to is that Matt was lifting 3 times a week with not more than 2 weeks break in 3 years, meanwhile Aron was lifting 2 times a week and takes about 3 months off a year to go to conferences, all those contacts he makes develop his career. Lifting, work, academia, all the same: you get xp when you show up.

Later in that meet a guy in Aron and Matt's weight class opened with 300kg. I don't know what he does for a living, but he had an A for anarchy tattoo on his neck so I suspect he wasn't in the white collar field, if you know what I mean. And he definitely didn't have a PhD.

From effort comes results. You can't be good at everything. There's the occasional guy who rolled good stats and multi-classed, but most of us only rolled enough for one character class.

Quote from: estar;981277That your intrepetation. Try ruling that all characters can do any skills (with no penalty or bonus other than what an attribute confers) but some are better at certain skills than other.

A mage can pick a lock. A cleric can sneak around. A fighter can climb. But a thief will be better at all three.

My system is a class-less, level-based system, that uses careers for skills. Other than things that require specific training or equipment, anybody can try anything. But if it isn't in your career, you are stuck at the lowest skill level.

Quote from: Tod13;983044My system is a class-less, level-based system, that uses careers for skills. Other than things that require specific training or equipment, anybody can try anything. But if it isn't in your career, you are stuck at the lowest skill level.

I think picking a lock is the sort of thing that does require training to have any chance of success, whereas anyone can attempt to sneak & climb. That's how I tend to run 5e, anyway - sometimes only the Arcana-trained PC or the Wizard can attempt the Arcana check, only the Thief can attempt the Thieves' Tools check, but anyone can roll Perception, Stealth & Athletics.

Quote from: S'mon;983206I think picking a lock is the sort of thing that does require training to have any chance of success, whereas anyone can attempt to sneak & climb. That's how I tend to run 5e, anyway - sometimes only the Arcana-trained PC or the Wizard can attempt the Arcana check, only the Thief can attempt the Thieves' Tools check, but anyone can roll Perception, Stealth & Athletics.

Your game, your rules. But we used to pick locks at our desks at Lockheed/NASA with paperclips, because we didn't have keys and wondered if we could.

Quote from: Orphan81;844202Skills.... those things that help outside of combat, and let you do things beyond killing stuff...

In older editions they were called "Proficiency" Snip
So what about you? How do you prefer their handled in level based games?

Don't pollute my D&D with skills by any name. There is no places for skills in a class based, level based game.

Quote from: Tod13;983257Your game, your rules. But we used to pick locks at our desks at Lockheed/NASA with paperclips, because we didn't have keys and wondered if we could.

So you had Proficiency, but not Expertise.

Quote from: S'mon;983261So you had Proficiency, but not Expertise.

LOL I don't play 5ed, but got that enough to make me laugh. I needed a laugh this morning. Thanks!

As a whole I think skills are often done badly, even in OSR games.  But I do like having things that make characters diverse from one another.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.