Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

Quote from: Spike on March 19, 2021, 11:08:21 PM
I will re-iterate my request for written transcripts to videos, as even at 1.5 speed I STILL could read your entire point in much less than half the time I takes to watch videos.

• Go to video
• Click the ••• menu below the video player
• Select 'Open Transcript'
• Read Transcript

This happened in the knitting and YA fiction communities a few years back:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000d70h

I guess if you want to know what happens next, look there.

I am gleefully happy that the shameless pandering to a tiny minority of people who actually most of the time dislike D&D, its history and legacy, and who also do not play it the most of the time turns to be a fruitless exercise in stupidity !!!

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 20, 2021, 03:29:52 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 20, 2021, 12:36:09 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 20, 2021, 09:30:12 AM

Quote from: Spike on March 19, 2021, 11:08:21 PM
Also, I note you struggle a little to explain the Virtue Death Spiral.

What's to explain?

It should more properly be called the Self-Righteousness Death Spiral, but Virtue is easier to say so its clear why the misapropism stuck.

Here's a short version for future use. The Prideful believe themselves to be the the most righteous being possible and so, to prove this, create categories to distinguish themselves from the less righteous. Whenever a category of the less righteous compared to them is peeled away they pick a new category from among those who still qualify as righteous to further distinguish themselves as more righteous.

On and on this goes until finally the numbers of the "unrighteous" realize they vastly outnumber the self-proclaimed righteous and that group declares the now minority self-righteous to be villains who must be removed from greater society for it own good.

And thus the cycle begins again.

Succinct.

Mind if I borrow this?

Go right ahead. I don't see much point in sharing a thought if others can't use it.

Also note there tends to be a pattern of targets these cultists use.
protect the children!
protect the women! While proclaiming them Strong!
Protect the gays!
Protect the minorities!
Protect the blacks (and sometimes the natives!)
Protect the cripples! While proclaiming them Strong!

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 19, 2021, 01:07:31 PM
In the ongoing spree of #DnD SJWs turning on each other, a new Queer-themed SJW #dnd5e  book has been attacked, not by evil right-wingers but by other SJWs for being the "wrong kind" of queer.

Wait, who hasn't heard of Elminster, the Sage of Shadowdale, Doombringer of Mystra, Confirmed Bachelor of Cormyr?

TBH, I don't really keep tabs on the politics of gaming. While most games are clearly heteronormative, I've never played one that is explicitly discriminatory against the LGBTQIA+ community, and I have gamed with gamers who were a part of this community. If people wanted to run with a LGBTQIA+ character, my GMs have been totally cool with it. In fact, my last shadowrun character was a non-binary asexual decker. It wasn't a big thing and we had fun with the game.

I also didn't read (or even hear of until now) this sourcebook, but it sounds pretty terrible the way you describe it. I could see the community finding flamboyant characterizations to be offensive. Don't get me wrong. I love Scott Thompson and the Buddy Cole sketches, but this was at a time when the movement probably needed that level of visibility to get off the ground. Nowadays, that style might come off as anachronistic now that we (generally should) realize that the members of the community individually are otherwise just like the rest of us boring straight gendered people. Gay men can like sports and hate show tunes. Lesbian women don't all have to wear a lot of flannel and drive Suburus, etc.

As for SJWs turning on SJWs, this doesn't surprise me, though I would offer an alternative perspective to the purity critical mass thing. The progressive side tends to favor the rights and liberties and the value of everyone as an individual. However, this post-modernist foundation is the very thing that works against it. At first, everyone in the movement is all happy with each other because the now have a name and a voice, but because the underlying message is that every individual matters, people are going to have different ideas of what that voice should be saying. This person's "kind of queer" is not that person's "kind of queer", and this other person doesn't even like the term "queer". Unifying for the right to be completely different is about as easy as fucking your way back to your virginity.

This is why the conservatives have been as successful as they have been. They have the right mix of propaganda and autocratic sway to (somewhat forcibly) keep everyone on the same page. Look at the 2020 US election. There were more than three dozen democrats out of the gate. All the democrats wanted a democrat, but they wanted "their" democrat. Meanwhile, the Republicans immediately got on board with Donald "Dumpster Fire" Trump. And, he might have actually won if it wasn't for the blatant racism and total mismanagement of COVID (I don't believe his general insanity and incompetence was much of a problem, as far as politicians go). They may be driving us towards a fascist, oppressive dystopia, but they're doing it more efficiently than the progressives are driving us towards utopia (not that anyone will agree on what this utopia should be).

I wonder how much the SJW movement actually affects, or even represents, actual gamers in actual play. I've had friends who were "the wrong kind of gay" and so they didn't fit in with the SJW circles but were totally loved and accepted by the group. Meanwhile, other friends were the "right kinda of gay" for the SJW movement but didn't get involved because they were also loved and accepted by actual gamers and thought the SJWs were a bunch of blowhards.

But, like I said, I don't keep up with the politics of gaming. I just hang out with my friends (regardless of orientation) and have fun. So, odds are I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Equating vampirism with drug addiction? That doesn't reflect poorly on drug addiction (not anymore than usual) because drug addiction is already accepted to be a bad thing. It even provides a better metaphor because anyone can fall into drug addiction, just like how anyone can contract vampirism.

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Equating vampirism with drug addiction? That doesn't reflect poorly on drug addiction (not anymore than usual) because drug addiction is already accepted to be a bad thing. It even provides a better metaphor because anyone can fall into drug addiction, just like how anyone can contract vampirism.

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

We haven't even gotten into the various flavors of vampire, either, as the myth varies wildly from culture to culture. But maybe they're worried about 'cultural appropriation'.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Equating vampirism with drug addiction? That doesn't reflect poorly on drug addiction (not anymore than usual) because drug addiction is already accepted to be a bad thing. It even provides a better metaphor because anyone can fall into drug addiction, just like how anyone can contract vampirism.

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

I'm not sure who made that comparison?

Can the alphabet soup be drug addicts? Are some of them drug addicts?

People are people, you can find good and bad people everywhere you look, by that same logic the alpahbet soup people CAN be monsters, or rather monsters can belong in the alphabet soup.

You might have missed this but THEY were shipping IT and the Babadoock and celebrating them as LGBTQERTY allies.

Play as you wish, write what you wish, nobody is above criticism and no, playing a gay vampire doesn't make you an Istophobe.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

Quote from: Spike on March 19, 2021, 11:08:21 PM
I will re-iterate my request for written transcripts to videos, as even at 1.5 speed I STILL could read your entire point in much less than half the time I takes to watch videos.

• Go to video
• Click the ••• menu below the video player
• Select 'Open Transcript'
• Read Transcript

Thanks, that was helpful.  Never knew it was there.  Unfortunately it only has a few words on the screen at a time so I still can't absorb the message at a reasonable speed.

I would also prefer a written form, even if it was just the transcript exported to something easier to read.  Edit:  Nevermind on that last.  I just tried copy & paste then removing the line breaks and it was still difficult to read. I guess you would need ot do an actual article.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 22, 2021, 01:08:52 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Equating vampirism with drug addiction? That doesn't reflect poorly on drug addiction (not anymore than usual) because drug addiction is already accepted to be a bad thing. It even provides a better metaphor because anyone can fall into drug addiction, just like how anyone can contract vampirism.

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

We haven't even gotten into the various flavors of vampire, either, as the myth varies wildly from culture to culture. But maybe they're worried about 'cultural appropriation'.

Speaking of which, what some folklorists label "vampire" is pretty fuzzy. It crosses over a lot with the general "ogre" archetype. I have consulted several books on the subject and the entries are dizzyingly diverse. Succubi, huli jing, asanbosam, soucouyant, jubokko, nekomata, adze, upyr, vrykolakas, varcolac, krasue, aswang, yara-ma-yha-who, jiangshi, lamia, ghouls, and more. These include living vampires, reanimated corpses, hungry ghosts, demons, vampire vegetables and trees, vampire cats and foxes, etc. Some drink blood, eat flesh, steal breath, or use magic ritual to harm at a distance. Some shed their skin, or lower bodies, and fly about as balls of fire or winged entrails. The only thing they share in common is predating on humans.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 22, 2021, 01:38:43 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Equating vampirism with drug addiction? That doesn't reflect poorly on drug addiction (not anymore than usual) because drug addiction is already accepted to be a bad thing. It even provides a better metaphor because anyone can fall into drug addiction, just like how anyone can contract vampirism.

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

I'm not sure who made that comparison?

"Vampires = queers" is a pretty common analysis in media studies. https://glreview.org/article/vampires-are-us/

I find it rather homophobic myself.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

You would think, and yet those are the comparisons they chose for themselves. And to be fair lots of us admire and emulate magnificent bastards, like Dr Frank N Furter, House MD, Rick Sanchez, The Joker, Rorschach, Bettlejuice, etc. It only becomes an issue when people treat their negative traits as virtuous.

The problem I see is people identifying with monsters because of the alienation, but then adopting all the negative traits which justify that alienation in the process.

Quote from: Spike on March 20, 2021, 12:54:59 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 20, 2021, 08:38:37 AM

There's no money in that.

By that logic I shouldn't be spending time reading or posting on this forum, either.  No money in it.

Pundit for the most part also follows your logic.  The forum is a distribution channel, and our comments section, while also being a place to have conversations with each other not relating to his videos.

But if someone comes to the RPGsite forums looking to find what pundit thinks about a subject, there's little here that isn't first posted elsewhere

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 05:48:51 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 22, 2021, 01:08:52 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Equating vampirism with drug addiction? That doesn't reflect poorly on drug addiction (not anymore than usual) because drug addiction is already accepted to be a bad thing. It even provides a better metaphor because anyone can fall into drug addiction, just like how anyone can contract vampirism.

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

We haven't even gotten into the various flavors of vampire, either, as the myth varies wildly from culture to culture. But maybe they're worried about 'cultural appropriation'.

Speaking of which, what some folklorists label "vampire" is pretty fuzzy. It crosses over a lot with the general "ogre" archetype. I have consulted several books on the subject and the entries are dizzyingly diverse. Succubi, huli jing, asanbosam, soucouyant, jubokko, nekomata, adze, upyr, vrykolakas, varcolac, krasue, aswang, yara-ma-yha-who, jiangshi, lamia, ghouls, and more. These include living vampires, reanimated corpses, hungry ghosts, demons, vampire vegetables and trees, vampire cats and foxes, etc. Some drink blood, eat flesh, steal breath, or use magic ritual to harm at a distance. Some shed their skin, or lower bodies, and fly about as balls of fire or winged entrails. The only thing they share in common is predating on humans.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 22, 2021, 01:38:43 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Equating vampirism with drug addiction? That doesn't reflect poorly on drug addiction (not anymore than usual) because drug addiction is already accepted to be a bad thing. It even provides a better metaphor because anyone can fall into drug addiction, just like how anyone can contract vampirism.

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

I'm not sure who made that comparison?

"Vampires = queers" is a pretty common analysis in media studies. https://glreview.org/article/vampires-are-us/

I find it rather homophobic myself.

I find it perplexing you choose to skip this:

"You might have missed this but THEY were shipping IT and the Babadoock and celebrating them as LGBTQERTY allies."

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 22, 2021, 05:58:10 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 21, 2021, 06:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on March 19, 2021, 04:26:01 PM
Because having a queer vampire is the type of representation you want to see?

Nothing wrong with identifying with monsters...

...as long as you realize they're monsters.

I think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

You would think, and yet those are the comparisons they chose for themselves. And to be fair lots of us admire and emulate magnificent bastards, like Dr Frank N Furter, House MD, Rick Sanchez, The Joker, Rorschach, Bettlejuice, etc. It only becomes an issue when people treat their negative traits as virtuous.

The problem I see is people identifying with monsters because of the alienation, but then adopting all the negative traits which justify that alienation in the process.

I am weirdly reminded of how the identitarians glommed onto Pennywise (from Stephen King's IT) only to recoil in horror when they realized Pennywise had noshed on a rather innocent-souled gay man (I can recall the passage quite clearly in the book; the victim was described as having child-like tendencies which was probably what drew Pennywise).

Has interjecting "queerness" into anything made it better? Anything at all?

Vampires are inhuman monsters. They're about as queer as orcs are black.

Which is to say they are only these things in the addled mind of a leftist.