Quote from: Omega;1131975Very notice a pattern. And each iteration has in some way been worse than the last. Not allways in the same ways or venues. But sooner or later it reaches a peak of stupid, then dies down, but you still have damage done somewhere. Because these moral guardians invariably do more harm than any good they claim to have done. Which was usually actually done by people with genuine concerns rather than hallucinations.

The problem is that NORMAL people can't wait to forget and move on, while these people pretend to forget and move on, but they come back a decade or two later to resume the revolution.

SJW/Commit ideas are mental viruses. Their only cure is light, information, and ridicule. SO MUCH RIDICULE. Gotta bury them under a mountain of the stuff!

Quote from: Godspar Games;1132400The problem is that NORMAL people can't wait to forget and move on, while these people pretend to forget and move on, but they come back a decade or two later to resume the revolution.

SJW/Commit ideas are mental viruses. Their only cure is light, information, and ridicule. SO MUCH RIDICULE. Gotta bury them under a mountain of the stuff!

where as conservatism is simply what it always has been, the carrier virus for child abuse.  Why do you thing open paedophiles have started running in republican primaries? or chrisitians are so much more likely than anyone else to rape kids?  Until and unless that huge elephant in the room is addressed, that prolific, metastasis philosophy of relentless abuse, whether that be the attempts to bring back 'traditional' family values (a mans family is his property, powerless in front on his abuse and rage) or the campaigns to defund Planned Parenthood (need more kids to attack, the rabid priests are near breaking their chains, hiding the half eaten corpses is getting difficult) every fake tear about the made up evils of those who resist is laughable.

Quote from: Taggie;1132406where as conservatism is simply what it always has been, the carrier virus for child abuse.  Why do you thing open paedophiles have started running in republican primaries? or chrisitians are so much more likely than anyone else to rape kids?  Until and unless that huge elephant in the room is addressed, that prolific, metastasis philosophy of relentless abuse, whether that be the attempts to bring back 'traditional' family values (a mans family is his property, powerless in front on his abuse and rage) or the campaigns to defund Planned Parenthood (need more kids to attack, the rabid priests are near breaking their chains, hiding the half eaten corpses is getting difficult) every fake tear about the made up evils of those who resist is laughable.

If conservatism is the carrier virus for child abuse, then leftism is the actual act of child abuse itself. Hollywood and the entertainment industry are almost monolithically leftist and treat pedophilia as a pastime. The Clintons and their inner circle (including Oprah and other leftist figureheads) are guilty of horrific crimes against children. God only knows what those people got up to on Epstein's pedophile island.

And while I agree that the Catholic Church has a MAJOR pedophile problem, keep in mind that far more teachers commit child abuse than priests. Teachers, again, skewing overwhelmingly to the left.

I'm glad we agree that pedophilia is terrible and we'd probably also agree that anyone that molests or abuses children should have their hands hacked off and then fed to them. But I think you need to calm down, pull the plank out of your eye, and take stock in your surroundings.

Cheers.

Quote from: Godspar Games;1132410And while I agree that the Catholic Church has a MAJOR pedophile problem, keep in mind that far more teachers commit child abuse than priests..

   And a lot of that problem came out of people in the Church accepting the progressive narratives of the late 60s to early 80s--"man-boy love isn't such a big deal," "therapy can cure all these problems," and "we shouldn't ruin people's lives over innocent mistakes." (There was a lot of the old 'protect the Church's reputation' in there too, of course.)

   To try and bring this back on topic, there have been such problems in the RPG industry as well, and I don't think they've been uniquely conservative. In fact, I'm not sure there are that many conservatives in the hobby--those who speak up on politics are predominantly some variety of left-winger, followed by libertarians or quasi-libertarians like Pundit. Traditionalist conservatives are rare, mysterious, and viewed with superstitious terror.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1132412And a lot of that problem came out of people in the Church accepting the progressive narratives of the late 60s to early 80s--"man-boy love isn't such a big deal," "therapy can cure all these problems," and "we shouldn't ruin people's lives over innocent mistakes." (There was a lot of the old 'protect the Church's reputation' in there too, of course.)

   To try and bring this back on topic, there have been such problems in the RPG industry as well, and I don't think they've been uniquely conservative. In fact, I'm not sure there are that many conservatives in the hobby--those who speak up on politics are predominantly some variety of left-winger, followed by libertarians or quasi-libertarians like Pundit. Traditionalist conservatives are rare, mysterious, and viewed with superstitious terror.

I think part of the reason that traditional conservatives are a rare sighting is because they're a rare breed; a modern "conservative" is a Kennedy-era liberal: rights and freedoms for everyone, gay people are fine, racism and sexism are for dickheads, a more prosperous and free people is a more prosperous and free country. Women dont belong in the kitchen. No race is superior. Show up, act like you've been here before, and work. Walk the center line, be good and helpful, speak the truth. Also watch out for commies.

The culture is veering left, which is why most comments come from that direction. And thats unfortunate if youre someone like me that likes to hear a diversity of opinions and viewpoints.

Crazy times!

Quote from: Taggie;1132387Ok then: Having seen my local FLGS, I would say that yes, it was not a place that welcomes women, at all, creepy sweaty handsy nerds, who wont accept that a woman may actually know the rules are the majority, but then, they where the reason I stopped going, so it may have changed (doubt it tho), does that make all DnD that way? Nope, just look at who wrote the early settings, and amongst them we find Dragonlance, which while being really 80s in some of it's tropes (to which, durr it was written in the 80s) actually has female characters who manage to be, while not 3d, more than 'romance' sub plot trophies.  DnD was a product of it's time, and that time was pretty damn unpleasant.

The best game store in my area, Game Empire in Pasadena, was very welcoming to women. One strategy they used for this is a separate, marked Women's room in addition to a Men's room for the restrooms.

Unfortunately, the owner died, and his spouse took over suddenly and then the businesses was hit by the shutdowns from Covid-19, and that was just too much for their savings to handle. So the store just shut down. Which is a shame because for many reasons it was the best in the area.

The polar opposite of welcoming to women was the highly old school Aero Hobbies and Games. It was dark and closer to a dungeon than a store. It was also awesome for many reasons. And it ALSO shut down fairly recently.

So the two best game stores in my region shut down in the past 6 months, for different reasons.

And now I am sad.

Don't waste time with trolls or people that already made up their minds.

At least on internet imageboards.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1132412And a lot of that problem came out of people in the Church accepting the progressive narratives of the late 60s to early 80s

I think the problem began earlier than that, around 1900 I think it was, when the Church cracked down on priests sleeping with their Housekeepers!

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1132418Don't waste time with trolls or people that already made up their minds.

At least on internet imageboards.

Wisdom of the ages, to be added to "never get involved in a land war in Asia and never get involved with a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line".

Quote from: Taggie;1132406where as conservatism is simply what it always has been, the carrier virus for child abuse.  Why do you thing open paedophiles have started running in republican primaries? or chrisitians are so much more likely than anyone else to rape kids?  Until and unless that huge elephant in the room is addressed, that prolific, metastasis philosophy of relentless abuse, whether that be the attempts to bring back 'traditional' family values (a mans family is his property, powerless in front on his abuse and rage) or the campaigns to defund Planned Parenthood (need more kids to attack, the rabid priests are near breaking their chains, hiding the half eaten corpses is getting difficult) every fake tear about the made up evils of those who resist is laughable.

And here we have another example of Hypernormative behavior; spreading the lie that Christians are more likely to commit pedophilia than other segments of the population.

The statistics from actual government institutions and crime statistics show that Christians are no more likely than any other segment of the population to commit such crimes.

But the SJW/Left needs to tell itself that IT alone is the truly moral force in the world and that all other institutions are corrupt and evil, in order to justify their efforts to tear them down. The Church, like the family, is one of the primary obstacles to the larger goal of making everyone dependent upon the State... and so the Left blows cases out of proportion (i.e. reports every case of abuse by the Church while ignoring cases within the secular schools and child welfare services systems).

I don't expect this to convince Taggie; they've clearly been indoctrinated by a lifetime of exposure to the SJW agenda to the point that they feel the Democrat party is a far right conservative organization; but for those reading who haven't been so completely brainwashed, its yet another case where the Left is trying to sell the lie that they are the only moral force in the world and that even as they support the irreversible sexual mutilation of children in the name of gender identity and elements of it for the recognition of pedophilia as a valid sexual orientation (see Here for an article on it).

Hypernormative SJW logic... Christians are monsters because of Pedophilia, but Pedophilia needs to be understood as just another type of gender identity, not vilified.

Quote from: Taggie;1132387Ok then: Having seen my local FLGS, I would say that yes, it was not a place that welcomes women, at all, creepy sweaty handsy nerds, who wont accept that a woman may actually know the rules are the majority, but then, they where the reason I stopped going, so it may have changed (doubt it tho), does that make all DnD that way? Nope, just look at who wrote the early settings, and amongst them we find Dragonlance, which while being really 80s in some of it's tropes (to which, durr it was written in the 80s) actually has female characters who manage to be, while not 3d, more than 'romance' sub plot trophies.  DnD was a product of it's time, and that time was pretty damn unpleasant.

Yeah, those creepy sweaty handsy nerds that you treat with utter dehumanizing contempt, yet the problem is 100% on them and they're somehow the evil bad guys gatekeeping womynz from gaming cuz they tried to help you or asked you if you know the rules, same way they would when dealing with other male nerds. But when they talk to a womyn about the rules, it's obviously cuz they can't fathom womynz knowing how to read. Obviously this isn't you projecting your own insecurities into a group in society that is perfectly acceptable to crap on and treat like subhuman garbage. It's them exercising their male privilege from the basement they were forced to hide from the cool kids that would stick them in a locker. This totally isn't you looking down on your lessers for daring to speak with someone above their station.

And basically every single old school D&D setting had prominent female characters that were more than just a romantic plot. In fact I can't remember a single female character in the entire history of D&D that was only there as a romantic interest for the dominant male hero. That's not even the point of the game. D&D is primarily about powerful heroes, not romantic plots. Every single time they include a significant female character in a setting or story they give her some class abilities and have her do heroic stuff.

Even when there was romantic interest involved female characters always pulled their own weight, if not outright pwn everyone. In Dark Sun they had Sadira, who was romantically involved with BOTH major male characters (Rikus, the most famous gladiator in the setting, and Agis of Asticles, a prominent nobleman with powerful psionic abilities). At the same time. And they were basically forced to accept that she was an empowered woman who could fuck whatever guy she liked. By the end of the series she was literally the most powerful hero in the entire saga, drawing energy from the sun to power her magic and the only one who could seriously hurt the Dragon of Athas who was the most powerful being in the entire setting.

Forgotten Realms had the Seven Sisters, Catti-Brie, and literally dozens of other prominent female characters from dozens of books I didn't even had time to read cuz the setting had so many of them. Where the fuck were these female characters who were there only as romantic subplots?

Quote from: Chris24601;1132421And here we have another example of Hypernormative behavior; spreading the lie that Christians are more likely to commit pedophilia than other segments of the population.

The statistics from actual government institutions and crime statistics show that Christians are no more likely than any other segment of the population to commit such crimes.

But the SJW/Left needs to tell itself that IT alone is the truly moral force in the world and that all other institutions are corrupt and evil, in order to justify their efforts to tear them down. The Church, like the family, is one of the primary obstacles to the larger goal of making everyone dependent upon the State... and so the Left blows cases out of proportion (i.e. reports every case of abuse by the Church while ignoring cases within the secular schools and child welfare services systems).

I don't expect this to convince Taggie; they've clearly been indoctrinated by a lifetime of exposure to the SJW agenda to the point that they feel the Democrat party is a far right conservative organization; but for those reading who haven't been so completely brainwashed, its yet another case where the Left is trying to sell the lie that they are the only moral force in the world and that even as they support the irreversible sexual mutilation of children in the name of gender identity and elements of it for the recognition of pedophilia as a valid sexual orientation (see Here for an article on it).

Hypernormative SJW logic... Christians are monsters because of Pedophilia, but Pedophilia needs to be understood as just another type of gender identity, not vilified.

The Catholic Churchs own studies put offending among Christians at 5%, among priests at 8-10% and among the general population at around 0.13%, but nice try.  But then what can you expect of an ideology based on the bible, where the lord of infinite space rapes a child, and the reward of war is prepubescent sex slaves...?  Apart from thous shalt not murder and thou shalt not steal, their is zero of moral worth in that disgusting rape cult, but hey, keep holding toddlers down for the priests to reenact the blessed conception...

Quote from: Taggie;1132423The Catholic Churchs own studies put offending among Christians at 5%, among priests at 8-10% and among the general population at around 0.13%, but nice try.  

  Citation. Needed. Those figures are so far out of line with everything I've ever heard that I think you must be misreading them, especially since if they were true, all the other enemies of the Church would be throwing them in our face every single chance they got.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1132426Citation. Needed. Those figures are so far out of line with everything I've ever heard that I think you must be misreading them, especially since if they were true, all the other enemies of the Church would be throwing them in our face every single chance they got.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-38877158  https://home.crin.org/issues/sexual-violence/australia-case-study-clergy-abuse Those are reports on a completed study, admittedly in Australia, will find more reports when I have more time. Also find here the Royal Commission Report https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/  having trouble finding the American churches own study, (Which may be me forgetting the name, or it may have been taken down)

Quote from: Taggie;1132423The Catholic Churchs own studies put offending among Christians at 5%, among priests at 8-10% and among the general population at around 0.13%, but nice try.

There's lies, damned lies and statistics.

You're comparing authorities in the Catholic Church to the general population instead of to authorities in other institutions (whereas general population of Christians to general population overall would show equivalent ratios... power, such as a teacher has over a student is often a key factor in enabling their abuse).

A 2004 US Department of Education study found that 10% of students enrolled in public school have been molested by a teacher. In the same time span in 2014 that just seven Catholic priests were accused there were 275 accusations levied against public school teachers... but those don't get covered because that hurts the Left's agenda of vilification for heterosexual white male Christians and anything that those segments of the population enjoy; sports, video games, sci-fi/fantasy and RPGs.

But again, this is the SJW Hypernormativity, telling lies that are demonstrably false to tell itself that their agenda is good and noble... and you certainly won't be convinced because you've been trained your whole life to accept those Leftist lies as the proof and to dismiss any counter argument as illegitimate because it comes from a non-Leftist.

The same SJWs who claim that RPGs are bad because orcs represent [insert flavor of the month minority here] and those RPGs glorify killing said orcs will also release projects vilifying actual white males (ex. whites in the latest CoC system being so racist that they will ignore their own safety to try and kill minorities when in their presence).

So vilification of groups is wrong... except when SJWs do it.