Quote from: deadDMwalking;1097524Players of RPGs are used to imagining themselves as someone else - someone green-skinned and scaly, or brutish and dumb, or agile and witty - or whatever, so it stands to reason that GENERALLY they'd be more tolerant of differences.  But clearly there are exceptions.  I don't think recognizing that creates problems.  Instead it opens up a useful discussion of how gaming can be true to the experience it offers but still try to be inviting to others.

Yes, I admit to being intolerant of people with poor hygiene, or people who inject politics into everything, or people who are not interested in actually gaming, or those whose idea of fun is pissing off everybody else at the game table. Obviously I must now be more inviting to all of the above, even when that drives away the Players I actually want at my game table.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1097524I'm actually very sure that MANY posters on this website have talked about how modern RPGs need a 'starter set' that is accessible to all kinds of people - to reduce the barriers to entry and make the hobby more welcoming of newcomers.  There's nothing wrong with pointing out that being more welcoming of newcomers almost by necessity implies being more welcoming of people that haven't traditionally played at the same rates as geeky teen-aged white boys in suburban high schools.  

What the ever-lovin' fuck are you talking about?

You have just conflated starter games which have less rules complexity and price or availability barriers to entry with whatever -ism "geeky teen-aged white boys in suburban high schools" are. That is soup sandwich level of fucked up right there and one of the reasons why I don't want SJWs at my game table.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1097528Those poor wahmens and not-honkies. They just can't learn games without a dumbed down version!

The horror, the horror!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1097490Yes, I'm "inclusive" in regards to judging gamers only by what they bring to the game table. I'm certainly not woke and I post honestly because why the fuck not? It's way more fun to give blunt and honest answers. And I'm all about the LOLz.

Understand my perspective. I live in Hollyweird. California prided itself on being the home of fruits, nuts and flakes 50 years ago and the hippy attitude of "its all good man" has morphed into "look at me, look at me, I demand you salute my freak flag".

1: Same here. Long as someone is not offensive or trying to force their interests/kinks/whatevers then I am willing to give them a seat at my table and see where it goes. And on that note I also do not care what you are if the time comes to give your ass the boot out the door. You had your chance, probably several since I'm way too lenient, and blew it. I do not care what you are. I care what you did.

2: Not just California. Increasingly various fetish groups for example have been pushing to get their kinks "accepted". A few have taken to long term media infiltration and co-opting other groups.

Quote from: jhkimNo one person represents the RPG world, but overall, it is represented by a collection of people and products. The issue is how do we generalize? Binary answers of either "the hobby was welcoming" vs "the hobby was unwelcoming" are largely meaningless.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1097505I agree, but I think it's worth noting the context in which this particular discussion is taking place. This thread and others like it didn't start in response to someone saying that the gaming/rpg hobby in the 70s (or 80s or whenever) reflected to a large extent the common attitudes and prejudices of that era. If that's all that was being said I doubt anyone would object.

However, almost as soon as nerdy interests became acceptable in mainstream culture a subset of clickbait online writers began to declare that the people previously participating in nerdish hobbies (before the enlightened writers showed up) are worse than Hitler.

I'm happy to agree that RPG players were not worse than Hitler. Anyone who says so is wrong.

But my impression is that this isn't sufficient for us to agree, though. Right? It's not just about that statement. Rather, for us to agree, I would have to say something like how SJWs as a whole are wrong - and the anti-SJWs are right. That's my impression.

I suspect that we have some common ground, but also some real differences in political opinion. We agree that RPG players aren't worse than Hitler, but maybe we disagree about someone else's less extreme claim. Still, our individual differences are masked in identity of a binary "us-vs-them". From my view, there's a wide range of opinions on the Internet -- most of which are wrong and dumb, because, well, it's the Internet. And it's not just extremists that are dumb. Moderates are just as dumb, they're just often less visible in their dumbness.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1097505I wouldn't claim that rpgers are uniquely free of attitudes and prejudices that are part of the larger culture, but at the same time I don't see any need to humor a bunch of twits who apparently are incapable of enjoying any activity unless they have a victim narrative to go along with it.

I agree, there are twits like that who I wouldn't humor. Conversely, I also wouldn't want to humor someone like GIMME SOME SUGAR.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1097528Those poor wahmens and not-honkies. They just can't learn games without a dumbed down version!

Who would have imagined that the discrimination was aiming your product at everyone 11 years and older.

Quote from: jhkim;1097482So, you thought you'd get positive social feedback for your position - but instead posters disagreed with you. That's signaling, looking for social reward. However, this isn't an echo chamber for your ideas. I agree with others that signaling and mob mentality is something that happens, especially within partisan echo chambers. TheRPGsite isn't one of those, though.

You're signaling yourself right now. I posted a picture of a hideous man/woman-thing with hairy arms and lips the size of a baboon's swollen ass and yet everybody reacted like: "Hell yeah, I would play rpgs with that person. If she acts normal I would accept her". I call bullshit on that.

I don't know how many hours your sessions last. When I was young we could play for 8-10 hours with a pizza break. Just assume you take a break to go out for some pizza. Would you really want to be seen with that "woman" beside you in a car/at the register? Would you want to see her eat a slice of pizza? Share a milkshake with her? If the answer is yes, my new avatar must be a delight for all you slack jawed faggots. Alderaan Crumbs suggested replacement for my posted thing-that-time-forgot was Blair White. Clearly not the same. You could stand next to Blair White and people would think you were out with a pretty chick. Hell, you could have stood next to Vince Neil anno 1983 and people would still have thought you were out with a pretty chick.

Maybe some of you outspoken ones on this forum are more woke than you pretend to be? The Milli Vanillis of the responce to the forcefed Feminist/SJW/LGBTI inclusiveness in the rpg industry? So, I don't like gaming with ugly transpeople sitting at my kitchen table. Sue me.

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Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097581You're signaling yourself right now. I posted a picture of a hideous man/woman-thing with hairy arms and lips the size of a baboon's swollen ass and yet everybody reacted like: "Hell yeah, I would play rpgs with that person. If she acts normal I would accept her". I call bullshit on that.

I don't know how many hours your sessions last. When I was young we could play for 8-10 hours with a pizza break. Just assume you take a break to go out for some pizza. Would you really want to be seen with that "woman" beside you in a car/at the register? Would you want to see her eat a slice of pizza? Share a milkshake with her? If the answer is yes, my new avatar must be a delight for all you slack jawed faggots. Alderaan Crumbs suggested replacement for my posted thing-that-time-forgot was Blair White. Clearly not the same. You could stand next to Blair White and people would think you were out with a pretty chick. Hell, you could have stood next to Vince Neil anno 1983 and people would still have thought you were out with a pretty chick.

Maybe some of you outspoken ones on this forum are more woke than you pretend to be? The Milli Vanillis of the responce to the forcefed Feminist/SJW/LGBTI inclusiveness in the rpg industry? So, I don't like gaming with ugly transpeople sitting at my kitchen table. Sue me.

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So you never went for a pizza or with a cousin with severe facial deformations? Or a friend who got burned so bad he lost most of his face?


Good thing is that for you to be able to offend me I would have first to give a damn about your opinion.

Quote from: sureshot;1097437Looks like another one came here to get a validating echo chamber and then rage quit because the rest of the forum refused to give it to him.

There have been others like me, you say? I will find these malicious men, these champions of darkness, and build myself an army and a giant echo chamber-thread on this forum where you and your poseur kin will be roasted on spits all day long. By word and by Meme. Maybe these thunderous men are still lurking around the forum or twirling around without purpose, outcasts in darkest aether - waiting for this very moment! I am here now, braves! The Chosen One. The One and True Crowned King of Utter Bastards!

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You may golf clap with your babysmooth, manicured hands to this now. But you cannot stop progress:

Spoiler

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Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097587So you never went for a pizza or with a cousin with severe facial deformations? Or a friend who got burned so bad he lost most of his face?


Good thing is that for you to be able to offend me I would have first to give a damn about your opinion.

Only a moron would compare horrible injuries or genetical disorders/deformities with someone who deliberately tried to mimic a trans pornstar:

"The 56-year-old Italian woman has spent 11 years and $87,000 on plastic surgery including more than 150 lip and cheekbone fillers, four breast implants, two rounds of liposuction and at least one butt lift, according to a Barcroft.

"I am not happy with my 'perfect' body because it is not perfect. Perfection is something else," Pellegrino told Barcroft.

"I want to look like Allanah Starr, an American transgender porn star," Pellegrino continued. "Plastic surgery is not a drug but its something that people like me need."

Now, google Allanah Starr, then read this article:

https://nypost.com/2016/01/07/the-transgender-woman-spending-a-small-fortune-to-look-perfect/

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Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097581You're signaling yourself right now. I posted a picture of a hideous man/woman-thing with hairy arms and lips the size of a baboon's swollen ass and yet everybody reacted like: "Hell yeah, I would play rpgs with that person. If she acts normal I would accept her". I call bullshit on that.

I am pretty sure most of us here have a line drawn somewhere that they arent comfortable crossing. And some have their line further back than others. Or the line may be flexible.

I am also pretty sure that for most of us. Even you. That how we view a certain group depends sometimes on first impressions, good or bad. And then shift from later encounters, good or bad.

Personal example: I am perfectly fine with about anyone who isn't offensive in some way. I am ok with someone being trans. Even games with a few over the decades. I am not ok with a trans person being offensive about it in some way. Especially if it they seem to be going out of their way to damage the allready shaky reputation. Same with a gaming fan. If they take it too far then they can and possibly will start working their way up my "no" list. But I will certainly give the next person with similar interests a fair chance.

Quick example: I have gamed with a several folk way way way too into settings with giants in them. And for some reason keep bumping into the worst of the lot. That soured me on such settings for a while. But I'll entertain running such on request when in an indulgent mood. And hopefully not regret it.

Every DM, and player for that matter has to make a judgement call at some point. "Are these the sorts of people I want to sit down for hours with?" or even "Is this one person the sort I want to sit down for hours with?". And that is not discrimination or any other tag SJWs love to toss around. We all have different tastes in who we like to game with.  Who we are comfortable gaming with.

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097597Only a moron would compare horrible injuries or genetical disorders/deformities with someone who deliberately tried to mimic a trans pornstar:

"The 56-year-old Italian woman has spent 11 years and $87,000 on plastic surgery including more than 150 lip and cheekbone fillers, four breast implants, two rounds of liposuction and at least one butt lift, according to a Barcroft.

"I am not happy with my 'perfect' body because it is not perfect. Perfection is something else," Pellegrino told Barcroft.

"I want to look like Allanah Starr, an American transgender porn star," Pellegrino continued. "Plastic surgery is not a drug but its something that people like me need."

Now, google Allanah Starr, then read this article:

https://nypost.com/2016/01/07/the-transgender-woman-spending-a-small-fortune-to-look-perfect/

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And?

Are you angry your idol got an imitator? Does it spoil your fapping sessions watching that pornstar's films?

You'll have to excuse if I don't give a damn why someone looks like they look (unless they are a Skrull that is).

Quote from: jhkimSo, you thought you'd get positive social feedback for your position - but instead posters disagreed with you. That's signaling, looking for social reward. However, this isn't an echo chamber for your ideas. I agree with others that signaling and mob mentality is something that happens, especially within partisan echo chambers. TheRPGsite isn't one of those, though.

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097581You're signaling yourself right now. I posted a picture of a hideous man/woman-thing with hairy arms and lips the size of a baboon's swollen ass and yet everybody reacted like: "Hell yeah, I would play rpgs with that person. If she acts normal I would accept her". I call bullshit on that.

I don't know how many hours your sessions last. When I was young we could play for 8-10 hours with a pizza break. Just assume you take a break to go out for some pizza. Would you really want to be seen with that "woman" beside you in a car/at the register? Would you want to see her eat a slice of pizza?

Signaling is people who are just saying whatever will get them praise, when they have no intention of putting those values into action. When everyone here disagrees with me -- which is pretty damn often -- I don't throw a tantrum and start posting angry gifs. My positions are the same regardless of whether they earn me praise or dissent. Certainly being bashed too much for one's opinions can be frustrating. If I get too frustrated, I'll walk away from the computer and do regular life stuff. I highly recommend this for any Internet drama.

As for the player -- it's hard to say in hypothetical. But I've currently in an irregular FATE campaign for the last half-year with two transgender players and a non-binary GM, plus many other players over the years who were very strange-looking. I'll be playing with my nephew next week, and he's had a ton of surgery since birth to deal with a genetic skeletal disorder that makes him look and sound odd.

Sure, there are people that I won't play with for their behavior. But I'm not shocked by odd-looking + transgender.

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097596There have been others like me, you say? I will find these malicious men, these champions of darkness, and build myself an army and a giant echo chamber-thread on this forum where you and your poseur kin will be roasted on spits all day long. By word and by Meme. Maybe these thunderous men are still lurking around the forum or twirling around without purpose, outcasts in darkest aether - waiting for this very moment! I am here now, braves! The Chosen One. The One and True Crowned King of Utter Bastards!

A) What are you, twelve?

B) Pundit is already the Final Boss of Internet Shitlords, so you will have to try harder for validation.

Quote from: jeff37923;1097610A) What are you, twelve?

B) Pundit is already the Final Boss of Internet Shitlords, so you will have to try harder for validation.

A) Yes, of course I'm 12. And you are The Knight Of Common Sense, right? It must be correct because you say so. Will you post a fap, fap, fap quote or post a meme now like you do whenever that rawma guy posts something? Are you angry that I have been using memes too? Was it your personal gimmick? And another question: have you ever heard of a hyperbole, Miss?

B) You might have gotten the titles confused? Reading apprehension is hard I know. And I subscribe to Pundits channel, and I watch his videos (at least the ones he isn't ranting on about OSR. I hate D&D). But judging from your vitriol I might have stumpled upon a cult. Is this the cult of Pundit, the Shitlord? Is this the reason why this forum exists? I thought this was a haven for the outcasts?


And before you "abuse" me more with your thunderous words, keep in mind that I have mental issues and that I wear glasses. Do you want to be that coward attacking a guy with glasses? Now, go fuck yourself, piglet.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097603And?

Are you angry your idol got an imitator? Does it spoil your fapping sessions watching that pornstar's films?

You'll have to excuse if I don't give a damn why someone looks like they look (unless they are a Skrull that is).

Have you, once in any of my posts, noticed me sexually lusting for or idolizing transpeople? And that's one shitty imitator judging by the pictures. I think you could pull it off better if you tried. I bet you have worn a silk stocking or two in your lifetime.