In my mind, I wasn't an outcast in high school and didn't see myself as a nerd. I was a headbanger / honor student. School was boring as shit, but my Dad traded top grades for my freedom. How could I be an outcast when I had my gaming crew and my metalheads! Did other kids consider me a weirdo? Fuck yeah, but I hung with nutters always brawling / moshing (and half of us joined SCA to fight in armor) so when I got jumped by jocks, that's just teen life's excuse for more fights.

Our gaming crew had lots of diversity. Some preferred Champions to AD&D. Others liked AD&D with only TSR products, whereas others used Arduin, Judges Guild and the kitchen sink. And I delved into the alternative lifestyle choice of using reverse trikes in Car Wars!

Did we have the Gay kid, the Black kid, the Filipino kid, the Japanese kid, and the half-Mexican kid? Yeah, but why give a fuck about that when we had something so much better? We had friendship.

The funny thing is I was an outcast in my first college year because UCLA was extremely class-ist and being "a have-not" fucking sucked hard. Even the gaming scene wasn't an escape from that attitude and I had to carve my own path (like everyone else!).

Which was fine because Sunset Strip was a bus ride to join LA headbangers at the clubs and if you helped opening acts carry their gear, they'd comp you for the show.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1093179Did Pundit really just say he had trans characters before they were cool? LOL

He did! RPGPundit wrote Arrows of Indra which incorporates trans-heroes because of the myths and history of India and there's one on the cover.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1093169Remember, "ally" just means "once this war is done, you're next!"

Sad, but true.

I can buy the argument that the rulenooks themselves (art and text) are more inclusive/diverse than the originals were. That is actually support as it makes it explicit that the game is open and not limited.  The story that the gaming groups were all white men are ridiculous. A lot of the original groups sprang from the war gaming community and the SF Con scene and those were definitely white and middle class, but not exclusively so (for Spinachcat - me and a bunch of the guy in our group also joined the SCA and we went from AD&D to Runequest to Champions).

The constant invention that the gaming groups were not inclusive ignores reality.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1093239I can buy the argument that the rulenooks themselves (art and text) are more inclusive/diverse than the originals were. That is actually support as it makes it explicit that the game is open and not limited.  The story that the gaming groups were all white men are ridiculous. A lot of the original groups sprang from the war gaming community and the SF Con scene and those were definitely white and middle class, but not exclusively so (for Spinachcat - me and a bunch of the guy in our group also joined the SCA and we went from AD&D to Runequest to Champions).

The constant invention that the gaming groups were not inclusive ignores reality.

In a hobby where the "rules" are for being ignored and changed, where the first spell to change your sex as included in the 70's (if not mistaken), where you can play as a woman, man, hermaphrodite or anything you desire and is allowed by the GM. How exactly do the books limit you?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093246In a hobby where the "rules" are for being ignored and changed, where the first spell to change your sex as included in the 70's (if not mistaken), where you can play as a woman, man, hermaphrodite or anything you desire and is allowed by the GM. How exactly do the books limit you?

You are both agreeing, but the subtle difference is another metatextual argument about the Implicit--Explicit spectrum.

To the Intersectionality-Mobile! (*looks at stunning modern art piece to rival Calder*)

It seems people of the past made assumptions that, as Gronan would say, "players are not booger eating morons and can shit unassisted," (possibly paraphrased, with dramatic license taken ).

However with the passage of time, and the rise of CCGs, a new force for "clarity" came out to bring regulation to imagination. Eventually this led to the legalistic treatise of the 00s, and their subsequent hoisting upon their own petard... And now we have a dynamic tension between explicit and implicit, where the young feel they need permission. Whereas before experimenting was expected and rules were offered to give suggested definition.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1093249However with the passage of time, and the rise of CCGs, a new force for "clarity" came out to bring regulation to imagination. Eventually this led to the legalistic treatise of the 00s, and their subsequent hoisting upon their own petard... And now we have a dynamic tension between explicit and implicit, where the young feel they need permission. Whereas before experimenting was expected and rules were offered to give suggested definition.

I think that the rise of Organized Play has had some influence on the stratification of RAW in play.

Quote from: jeff37923;1093253I think that the rise of Organized Play has had some influence on the stratification of RAW in play.

The moron magnet of Org Play strikes again!!!

And I fully agree. Org Play is all about the RAW. I've seen enough "battles of the rule books" between GMs and players to last a lifetime.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1093249It seems people of the past made assumptions that, as Gronan would say, "players are not booger eating morons and can shit unassisted," (possibly paraphrased, with dramatic license taken ).

However with the passage of time, and the rise of CCGs, a new force for "clarity" came out to bring regulation to imagination. Eventually this led to the legalistic treatise of the 00s, and their subsequent hoisting upon their own petard... And now we have a dynamic tension between explicit and implicit, where the young feel they need permission. Whereas before experimenting was expected and rules were offered to give suggested definition.

That assumption was abandoned by TSR with AD&D 1e, long before CCGs. A desire for "tournament play" may have been a factor, but organized play of today is different (in my experience, with AL at game stores, private groups, conventions, charity events and what have you).

Quote from: Opaopajr;1093249You are both agreeing, but the subtle difference is another metatextual argument about the Implicit--Explicit spectrum.

To the Intersectionality-Mobile! (*looks at stunning modern art piece to rival Calder*)

It seems people of the past made assumptions that, as Gronan would say, "players are not booger eating morons and can shit unassisted," (possibly paraphrased, with dramatic license taken ).

However with the passage of time, and the rise of CCGs, a new force for "clarity" came out to bring regulation to imagination. Eventually this led to the legalistic treatise of the 00s, and their subsequent hoisting upon their own petard... And now we have a dynamic tension between explicit and implicit, where the young feel they need permission. Whereas before experimenting was expected and rules were offered to give suggested definition.

Well if it's true younger players can't shit unassisted I blame the GMs that taught them.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1093239I can buy the argument that the rulenooks themselves (art and text) are more inclusive/diverse than the originals were. That is actually support as it makes it explicit that the game is open and not limited.  The story that the gaming groups were all white men are ridiculous. A lot of the original groups sprang from the war gaming community and the SF Con scene and those were definitely white and middle class, but not exclusively so (for Spinachcat - me and a bunch of the guy in our group also joined the SCA and we went from AD&D to Runequest to Champions).

The constant invention that the gaming groups were not inclusive ignores reality.

That's nice, but it's also utterly irrelevant. Especially when you consider in many groups no one but the GM would bother reading the whole thing. I don't need a picture (or a special story insert) of someone brown like me in a rulebook to tell me I'm "welcome" or "supported"; indeed for the most part I couldn't care less about the artwork in a book.

Again, the groups I played with back in the day were all white and middle class, and it didn't make the slightest bit of difference. In the place I lived and school I went to, it was predominantly white, and majority middle class.

Unlike passive entertainment like movies or books or video games, I don't have to identify with a character made by someone else; I make my own. Which makes all these arguments about "representation" entirely spurious.

Quote from: Shasarak;1093054Yeah, RPGs were so popular among the Jocks   o_O

What a joke.

Yes they were. Why wouldn't they be?

Quote from: Kiero;1093056This is just more SJWs engaging in revisionist history, inventing discrimination and "oppression" in the past that didn't exist. Pretty dumb thing to do when there are lots of people who were actually around at the time and were sober enough to remember how it was.

Its more than that. Its a pogrom to make people start seeing discrimination and to feel unsafe where they were not before. If you start acting weird then people are sure enough possibly going to start treading you as weird. Or more often practically brainwashing non-minorities into believing discrimination is EVERYWHERE and we have to be INCLUSIVE and collect em all! Untill is suits them to not do so.

Its allways so fascinating how utterly oppressive and UN-welcoming these SJWs are when you look past the smiling helpful mask.

Quote from: jeff37923;1093203In my experience, a lot of military men were also gamers of one kind or another.

Still are.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1093246In a hobby where the "rules" are for being ignored and changed, where the first spell to change your sex as included in the 70's (if not mistaken), where you can play as a woman, man, hermaphrodite or anything you desire and is allowed by the GM. How exactly do the books limit you?

I am not surprised that you miss the fucking point and want to defend your little perceived corner of reality. First, the sex change magic item was a negative at the time. Second, rule books are where the rules are explicitly written down, including the rule that says that the DM and players have discretion. For someone new to the game, seeing art and rules that affirm and provide examples that all are welcome explicitly written helps and causes no harm.

It is not hard to see account after account of people both new to the game and who have been playing it for quite a long time day how much they appreciate the affirmation. My table has not only been open to all gamers but it has actually been decently diverse over the years I have played. I like that the rules reflect it.

You can cherry pick a spell or magic item and claims that the rules never said you could not, but the rules also did not
Say that not only could you but it is expected and part of the game if you want.

I think that has made a difference, and the difference is easy to see in the increased popularity of the game today.

Quote from: Omega;1093273Its more than that. Its a pogrom to make people start seeing discrimination and to feel unsafe where they were not before. If you start acting weird then people are sure enough possibly going to start treading you as weird. Or more often practically brainwashing non-minorities into believing discrimination is EVERYWHERE and we have to be INCLUSIVE and collect em all! Untill is suits them to not do so.

Its allways so fascinating how utterly oppressive and UN-welcoming these SJWs are when you look past the smiling helpful mask.

It's a bizarre kind of revisionism, because we're talking about events that weren't that long ago. Furthermore, the people engaged in that attempt to alter history don't have any power to make it so.

Do they believe everyone who was there is just going to let them change the account and no one will point out their lies?

I think I will just stop looking at my perfect bound full color books and go back to the 16 page folded and staples in the middle books where I can play "Fighting-Men" as my character. That would make everyone happy, no need to change, everything was perfect.