Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 26, 2022, 04:11:31 PM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on April 26, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
For your average Christian, they might repeat the slogan that the Bible is the literal Word of God, but do you think they really care whehter the story of Balaam and the talking donkey literally happened? What they really care about is that true enough: that they're not wasting their time going to church, that they'll see their loved ones again after death, etc. In fact, one of the most common causes of loss of faith I've seen is when a believer or a loved one gets sick, and they pray and pray but God doesn't heal them. Why? Because now the power of God wasn't there for them when they needed it. So either he doesn't really exist, or doesn't care.

God can be all-loving and care, but be non-interventional. God answering everybody's prayers would be reduced to an all-powerful slave.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm pointing out that it was the (perceived) power of God that mattered, not the minutiae of whether the Bible is literally true or not.

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on April 26, 2022, 04:21:08 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 26, 2022, 04:11:31 PM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on April 26, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
For your average Christian, they might repeat the slogan that the Bible is the literal Word of God, but do you think they really care whehter the story of Balaam and the talking donkey literally happened? What they really care about is that true enough: that they're not wasting their time going to church, that they'll see their loved ones again after death, etc. In fact, one of the most common causes of loss of faith I've seen is when a believer or a loved one gets sick, and they pray and pray but God doesn't heal them. Why? Because now the power of God wasn't there for them when they needed it. So either he doesn't really exist, or doesn't care.

God can be all-loving and care, but be non-interventional. God answering everybody's prayers would be reduced to an all-powerful slave.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm pointing out that it was the (perceived) power of God that mattered, not the minutiae of whether the Bible is literally true or not.

Fair enough. 

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on April 26, 2022, 01:18:46 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 26, 2022, 08:22:14 AM
I'm arguing against a modern, scientific worldview. Against the God of the Gaps, where the role of the divine is diminished to such an extent that it can only be abstract or inferred.

Huh? The esoteric/symbolic interpretation of religion is pretty much the opposite of the God of the Gaps, since it's expressly not being invoked to explain natural events.

Huh back. The God of the Gaps isn't about explaining natural events, but about finding a place where an expression of divinity doesn't conflict with what we know of natural law.

Role playing occurs in the heads of the participants. If you are going to reinvent the wheel again and again for Pantheons and cultures your gonna create something like Glorantha or Tekemal which many people find a bit too alien. Better to do the pistache thing to make things readily accessible.

A setting only has to be real enough.

Quote from: Mishihari on April 26, 2022, 01:23:39 PM
Maybe his keyboard doesn't have a bullet point key.  Does yours?

It'd be nice if this board supported markdown IMO instead of BBCode.
Wonder what it would take to upgrade the board forum software.

Quote from: Shasarak on April 26, 2022, 12:56:36 AM
The Cat is right, Greyhawk only had laser guns.

And blasters and needlers, IIRC.

Quote from: Ruprecht on April 26, 2022, 07:31:21 PM
Role playing occurs in the heads of the participants. If you are going to reinvent the wheel again and again for Pantheons and cultures your gonna create something like Glorantha or Tekemal which many people find a bit too alien. Better to do the pistache thing to make things readily accessible.

A setting only has to be real enough.

Greetings!

I agree, Ruprecht! I'm a detail guy, and I have detailed my game world for geesus, 40 years now? *Laughing* Honestly, though, probably 50% of it all is overkill. The players like it--some really love it all, too. However, having said that, I have also learned through the years to appreciate simplicity and a certain measure of minimalism. There are, after all, tools, tables, and some prep work that can more than suffice, which allows the DM to avoid slaving away creating far too much detail that most players are not likely to ever appreciate. The campaign only has to be "Real Enough".

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

So I took a look at your accussations?

Quote-global pantheons, most seem guilty of this. The entire word worships a single pantheon.

God I wish. In my experience it's totally different.
In D&D worlds - Greyhawk, Faerun, Golarion, Midgard - multiple racial and regional pantheons is common, and rarely there is any unity.

Three gods of tyranny for Europeans, Asians and Elves... got it. Five mother earths for Europeans, Africans, Dwarves, Halflings and Draconians - you get it. And so on, and so on.

With D&D like deities my prefered model is limited number of real gods, and widely diverse methods of worship accross cultures, that makes mundane people think who is who across it.
Nevertheless if gods are real, and at least somehow more obviously interfering than God/gods in our world, then it seems quite obvious they gonna be recognized... widely.

Quote-time locked, most fantasy settings set in a pseudo medieval period spend way too much time there. They like get to the Middle Ages and just stop inventing shit. If your medieval period is 10,000 years long that's excessive.

That I agree.

Quote-gods are ever present, communicative and all powerful. This just strips mortals of their agency and meaningful choices.

Perfectly aligned with pagan vision of heroism. May be not for your taste, alas it's common mythical thing.

Quote- resurrection, god I hate this spell. It really lowers the stakes. High profile assassination of emperor bigus dickus? Shame he's obscenely wealthy and is just gonna be brought back to life shortly.

I do not as much hate this spell - as certainity it's gonna work.
Make it hard as fuck, and occassional ressurection won't hurt as much.

Quote-world peace is the rule, seriously too many campaign settings have every nation of similar alignment just allied or friendly with each other. When there is war it's some evil necromancer or orc horde never just mundane reasons where politicians try and get people killed. Peace is the exception not the rule

That's logical result of high fantasy with objective cosmic alignment. Maybe try to play other games not D&D.

Quote- cultural diversity and cultural exchange. Quit sticking random outliers smack in the middle of things. Cultures bleed over on each other, historical maps showcase this the best you shouldn't have Mongolians popping up between france and Spain.

I mean it took time. Hungarians started as Asian horde between Germany, Czech and Byzantium and they evolved from it.

Quote-your kingdoms aesthetic should represent their environment. You aren't going to have a landlocked kingdom or even mostly landlocked kingdom subsist primarily on seafood.

I must say I've always seen seafood in seafaring nations in my fantasy as main thing, so maybe I'm lucky.

Quote-meaningless titles, nobility in worlds like faerun mean jack shit other than occasionally being called lord or sir. Even knights should be loaded with cash. Fitted Medieval plate armor accounting in terms of modern currency is like buying a Ferrari and easily can cost in the millions.

While all those divine and magical elements are more matter of taste, here I shall agree - economy in D&D is BULLSHIT, objectively on any level.
If your magical artifact is not powerful enough to nuke entire cities, it won't be bought for value of entire kingdom sorry. Sorry but your +5 demonslaying halberd won't be that a) easy to sell b) valuable in simple cash c) probably local authorities gonna try to take it away and lock in castle dungeon to use if necessary when demons endanger kingdom, not let some random hobo wander with such strategic asset.

QuoteSo any game world with real gods will automatically only have one pantheon, because only one god can be responsible for the sun rising and setting. Only one god can be the ruler of the underworld, etc. These gods might have different names across the world, but they will be the same god.

Joke, on you. In my recent D&D mini-campaign DM decided after my joke, to make canonical lore of our world that each region has it's own sun god, ruling over sun's nature in specific place. If two major sun gods are fighting over territory that really fucks up day and night cycles.

A good compromise between a billion real gods and one global pantheon is distant god with many faces... not all of whom are recognized.

For example;

- The beastmen have a goddess of dreams a batkin who delivers the dust of sleep upon untroubled souls and torments the wicked in their dreams. Their goddess of death is associated with wolves and winter and hunts the undead.

- The local humans have a maiden of dreams associated with the moon who is worshipped, and a queen of nightmares who is worshipped against... typically by offerings to the maiden for protection. The humans have a death goddess virtually identical to the beastmen, but also a demonic goddess of undeath.

- The elves have a High Queen associated whose aspect shifts from benign to malevolent with the phases of the moon and is said to have two faces. Unlike the beastmen and humans, they do not have a goddess of death (they reincarnate) but believe what the other species experience as a death goddess is actually a demon preying upon lesser creatures who are doomed to die (unlike themselves).

Common elements exist among them all, but the interpretations in each culture are different. It points to their being some underlying truth, but not which version (if any) is actually correct. And the differences are more than enough to have religious wars over.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 25, 2022, 04:18:50 PM
So any game world with real gods will automatically only have one pantheon, because only one god can be responsible for the sun rising and setting. Only one god can be the ruler of the underworld, etc. These gods might have different names across the world, but they will be the same god.

The gods could be real and the myths human created lies to justify things they don't understand. Gods might be indifferent to the stories told about them as long as their power increases. In such cases you could have hundreds of Sun Gods.