The traditional wizard or magic-user has relied heavily on the intelligence stat in D&D. With the evolution of the Warlock and Sorcerer there has been some movement toward arcane magic users that rely more on CHA than Int. But honestly I see high CHA as relying on some modicum intelligence to avoid being a boar or a dopey personality.

But what about a magic using character that just isn't that smart? They have found some font of power and wish only to use it and do not care to know or understand where it comes from or how it works? There is no need to be a scholar and what if you can only barely speak your native language. Illiterate? No problem.

Would you play in a campaign where there was no wizard class? Remove libraries. Magic powered is almost always derived from some power source or pact; curse or boon.

Thoughts? Do you ever have ignorant magic slingers in your campaigns? Is knowledge always available in your campaigns?

I think D&D is pretty limited in terms of casting traditions. Spheres of Power is completely superior in terms of a fluff perspective: you can build a character with any choice of arcane, divine or psychic as a power source and any of int, wis or cha as a casting stat. (To saw nothing of the companion martial system.) 4e's power sources were pretty innovative and I'm sad the concept was completely discarded from 5e.

So in my campaigns I allow any combination of power source and casting stat.

I would certainly happily play with no Wizard class.

In my experience, the classic example of the character who wields magic without understanding it is the Thief. That said, I don't really care if magic is tied to intelligence as a general rule, but I might start to wonder what this vestigial Ability Score is doing on my character sheet in that case.

Quote from: Zalman;1074207In my experience, the classic example of the character who wields magic without understanding it is the Thief. That said, I don't really care if magic is tied to intelligence as a general rule, but I might start to wonder what this vestigial Ability Score is doing on my character sheet in that case.

I wouldn't consider the intelligence score vestigial just by divorcing it from Magic casting. Actually t would still very much measure the intellect f the character affecting certain skill checks, literacy, number of languages. I can even see it still measuring and influencing the character's power in some way. I just realized the other day I prefer to have the font of magic divorced from the intelligence score.

Actually, I kept trying to come up with what I would consider a low magic setting while still having some forms of magic. It finally occurred to m that the way to do low magic was to remove any formalized systems of magic. Thus I started removing the Wizard class which has grown in 5E to resemble more and ore Harry Potter instead of anything remotely Conan. i'm not sure why it took me so long to rap my head around the concept is more easily modeled if the magic is only accessible through some phenomenon or pact (the ultimate damper making it as rare as you want).

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1074237I wouldn't consider the intelligence score vestigial just by divorcing it from Magic casting. Actually t would still very much measure the intellect f the character affecting certain skill checks, literacy, number of languages. I can even see it still measuring and influencing the character's power in some way. I just realized the other day I prefer to have the font of magic divorced from the intelligence score.

In Hackmaster intelligence modifies attack. A more intelligence fighter is better able observe and to exploit weaknesses in an opponents defense, i.e fight more tactically. Wisdom modifies initiative and defense, as a mix of alertness and caution.
Strength doesn't improve your attacks, just the damage you deal.

Always made good sense to me. Lots of room for intelligence to play in a game. When I go back and read the 1e AD&D and see "if x class has stat y over 16" they gain 10% more experience I often think: it should be intelligence for everyone, instead of the "core" stat for each class.
Not that I particularly think that is a good mechanic. I've never used it for a reason.

INT matters for magic if you have to study to cast spells.

If you can gain magic via...something else, then you don't need INT.

I could easily see settings with Warlocks and Sorcerers as the only arcane casters. To me, that's how Dark Sun would work.

WIth setting changes such as Sword and Sorcery. As long as I can hit creatures requiring magic with some other method and heal quickly I don't need wizards.
The TSR Conan/Red Sonja modules did this well as well a other games. I've done it in my own Hyboria games, others have as well.

What kind of fluff do you think would explain a wisdom-based arcane caster?

The 3.x/d20/OGL games and 3pp have at some point broached charisma-based divine casters (Paizo's oracle, Kobold Press' shaman), intelligence-based divine casters (Wizard's archivist), but not to my knowledge any wisdom-based arcane casters.

Otherwise, I find it very frustrating that most fantasy games don't really give you much freedom when it comes to class options. The Spheres of Power system is the only one that comes close, but it relies on the bloated Pathfinder rules.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1074622What kind of fluff do you think would explain a wisdom-based arcane caster?

Almost any wizard from myth, legend, or even most fiction. Seriously, pick one from a hat: Merlin, Gandalf, Väinämöinen, Baba Yaga, Taleisin, and on and on. Wizard literally means wise, not well read. They often had vast bodies of knowledge, but it was intuitive and artistic rather than the scientific method applied to a new fundamental force.