Setting Good...Rules Not So Good

arminius · December 24, 2006, 07:53:41 PM

Well, Harn started off that way and in fact when the topic of "what system do you use?" was raised over at Harnforum, there was a pretty surprising diversity.

David R · December 24, 2006, 09:02:55 PM

A GM friend of mine, she's really digs Middle Earth but has not really liked any of the game adaptations so far. But the thing is there is a hell of a lot of Middle Earth material out there - I'm talking about the non game related material - that she has used with a homebrew system of her own. She has now switched to Heroquest but that's another story

So, I was thinking, maybe some settings could be like Elliot's example of Harn. Just the setting, no rules...

Regards,
David R

Spike · December 24, 2006, 10:32:47 PM

Quote from: Elliot WilenWell, Harn started off that way and in fact when the topic of "what system do you use?" was raised over at Harnforum, there was a pretty surprising diversity.

That is pretty funny to me. I've got the binder for Harn, and the orc supliment, and I've always viewed is as mostly rules, with a pretty generic pseudo-historical setting that was more disposable than anything.

To hear that the FANS don't even use the system? :confused:

jdrakeh · December 24, 2006, 11:21:08 PM

Quote from: David RQuestion. Would you ever buy a source book with no rules but with a lot of setting detail, perhaps charts dealing with stuff like - creating random npcs, economics, weather, populations etc - advice on running differents types of games using the setting ?

Regards,
David R

Absolutely! I've paid good money for HarnWorld and the World Book of Khaas

jdrakeh · December 24, 2006, 11:24:34 PM

Quote from: SpikeThat is pretty funny to me. I've got the binder for Harn, and the orc supliment, and I've always viewed is as mostly rules, with a pretty generic pseudo-historical setting that was more disposable than anything.

You likely have the HarnMaster binder -- HarmWorld is the game's setting and another product entirely. HarnMaster is the actual game system. HarnWorld is a system-independent setting supplement that doesn't have a single rule in it (or at least the edition that I owned didn't).

Spike · December 24, 2006, 11:52:32 PM

Quote from: jdrakehYou likely have the HarnMaster binder -- HarmWorld is the game's setting and another product entirely. HarnMaster is the actual game system. HarnWorld is a system-independent setting supplement that doesn't have a single rule in it (or at least the edition that I owned didn't).

Ah... yes. vaguely incomplete, in that much of what was in it was meant for the setting... as generic as it appeared on the surface. No real info on magic, other than that 'here's how to make a mage', and pretty limited psionics.

Other than that, it wasn't bad. I rather liked the armor rules and so forth...

jdrakeh · December 25, 2006, 12:11:37 AM

Quote from: SpikeAh... yes. vaguely incomplete

Well, "Harn" was marketed as a set of core books, not a self-contained game (setting and all) under one cover. Much as AD&D and D&D are/were. You need all of the core products to get the entire system.

If you have a binder, you likely have second edition HarnMaster -- which means that you need Harn Magic and Harn Religion to round out your set of core books. HarnWorld is, at that point, largely optional (as is Greyhawk where the D&D core books are concerned).

So. . . it's really your collection of core books that is vaguely incomplete

arminius · December 25, 2006, 01:29:05 AM

Quote from: SpikeThat is pretty funny to me. I've got the binder for Harn, and the orc supliment, and I've always viewed is as mostly rules, with a pretty generic pseudo-historical setting that was more disposable than anything.

To hear that the FANS don't even use the system? :confused:

Unfortunately Harnforum is down at the moment but another good resource is http://www.lythia.com/

The core Harn setting itself is actually covered in amazing detail in the various books. Though somewhat generics it get points for taking a strongly "real world"/historical approach. Some of the fantastic elements are cool in themselves as well, particularly things dealing with the god Ilvir.

Spike · December 25, 2006, 03:19:32 AM

To be honest, at a rough dozen or so game stores across five states, I have never seen any other harn books than the ones I have...

Talk about distribution problems....

jdrakeh · December 25, 2006, 11:18:23 PM

Quote from: SpikeTalk about distribution problems....

Yep. Distribution for Harn material has always been bad, which I suspect is part of why it isn't anywhere as popular as it could have been.

arminius · December 26, 2006, 12:40:15 AM

Another example came to mind: the Midkemia stuff, including Carse, Tulan of the Isles, etc., was also designed for use with "any game system".

Wil · January 01, 2007, 11:34:54 PM

I'm this way with Exalted. The rules are tolerable, and we're just invested enough in them after several months that it was decided that we wouldn't simply jump ship to something like Wushu or BESM or something. So we play a really streamlined version of combat and gloss over things that get in the way too much.

On a different note, I'm ambivalent towards Silhouette being used in Tribe 8. I think there might be a system that would serve Tribe 8 better but I really don't know what system that might be. Silhouette is actually one of my favorite systems, I just know deep down that it's not the best fit for Tribe 8.