Dark Sun is probably the best thing TSR put out in that entire era, and they still managed to fuck it up with the novels and modules.

But early on in the line it's a thing of true beauty. I'm extremely tempted to take OQ or MRQ2 and do a Humans-Only version of the first version of the setting with all the Rajaat shit ignored. Battle Magic becomes psionics, and Shamanism / Spirit Combat becomes psionic combat. Tap (Plants) is a sorcery spell. Get out my hex grid polyacetate from FR 2e (the single most useful thing in that entire boxed set), slap it on my cloth map of Athas, and start PCs off in the middle of the desert with their caravan burning behind them and miles of trackless wastes ahead.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;454140Dark Sun is probably the best thing TSR put out in that entire era, and they still managed to fuck it up with the novels and modules.

But early on in the line it's a thing of true beauty. I'm extremely tempted to take OQ or MRQ2 and do a Humans-Only version of the first version of the setting with all the Rajaat shit ignored. Battle Magic becomes psionics, and Shamanism / Spirit Combat becomes psionic combat. Tap (Plants) is a sorcery spell. Get out my hex grid polyacetate from FR 2e (the single most useful thing in that entire boxed set), slap it on my cloth map of Athas, and start PCs off in the middle of the desert with their caravan burning behind them and miles of trackless wastes ahead.

I think that would work well. I could see recasting elves and half-giants etc etc as mutated or specially bred humans though as i think their personalities/roles in the setting are pretty interesting - they don't particularly need to correspond to the standard D&D races to do that though.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;454140Dark Sun is probably the best thing TSR put out in that entire era, and they still managed to fuck it up with the novels and modules.

Yeah, I was talking about the original boxed set. I didn't have any of the modules, novels and all that BS.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;454140But early on in the line it's a thing of true beauty. I'm extremely tempted to take OQ or MRQ2 and do a Humans-Only version of the first version of the setting with all the Rajaat shit ignored. Battle Magic becomes psionics, and Shamanism / Spirit Combat becomes psionic combat. Tap (Plants) is a sorcery spell. Get out my hex grid polyacetate from FR 2e (the single most useful thing in that entire boxed set), slap it on my cloth map of Athas, and start PCs off in the middle of the desert with their caravan burning behind them and miles of trackless wastes ahead.

I could see that working really well.

Quote from: Cole;454142I think that would work well. I could see recasting elves and half-giants etc etc as mutated or specially bred humans though as i think their personalities/roles in the setting are pretty interesting - they don't particularly need to correspond to the standard D&D races to do that though.

Mutants / ethnic divisions would be my way of handling it, I think. I'd keep muls, pterrans and half-giants as mutants, and turn elves, halflings and dwarves into humans. Thri-Kreen would remain a totally separate species to reinforce their alienness, but would not be available as a PC option.

Quote from: Benoist;454144Yeah, I was talking about the original boxed set. I didn't have any of the modules, novels and all that BS.

The boxed sets were pretty good, especially the maps.

Quote from: jibbajibba;454080This again seems to be one one of those rather daft statements that claims that because assasins were removed as a class the game was 'cleaning itself up for the kids'. As I believe was stated many times an assasin can be any class its just someone that kills for meoney and I certainly played more than my share of downright evil motherfuckers in 2e and the rules never seemed to hold me back.

No. No. That's not a "daft statement", that's a goddamn mission statement by none other but TSR, Inc.

Exhibit 1. James M. Ward (1990): Angry mothers from Heck (And what we are doing about them). Dragon Magazine 154, p. 9. (Text from The Dragon Archives, emphasis all mine.)

Quote from: James M. WardAngry mothers from Heck (And what we are doing about them)

Avoiding the Angry Mother Syndrome is something that I talk about quite often at TSR, Inc. Simply put, if a topic will anger the normally calm, caring mother of a gamer, we aren't interested in addressing that topic in any of our game products. Yes, I know that our company sells adventures full of swordsmen slashing their way through armies, with foul, smelly monsters waiting everywhere to crunch and eat player characters of every description. But I also know that there are clear differences between fighting for its own sake and fighting for a good cause. The "good cause" part is largely what role-playing is and should be all about.

I would like for all of you to think back on the best times you ever had in roleplaying. Every gamer should have at least one adventure that really stands out in his mind. You remember when you finished a big quest, did almost everything right, and the treasure was in your character's arms and sparkling in your mind's eye. In almost all of these cases there was an honorable, public-spirited, or life-saving goal at stake. That goal is the essence of what TSR wants to foster in its role-playing products. Sure, each product should be lots of fun to play and involve high adventure, but each product also has to have certain elements that any gamer's mother
in this or any other universe would smile at. These qualities must be present in each gamer's role-playing to foster the "right stuff."

Here is a case to illustrate this point. Ever since the Monster Manual came out in 1977, TSR has gotten a letter or two of complaint each week. All too often, such letters were from people who objected to the mention of demons and devils in that game book. One letter each week since the late 1970s adds up to a lot of letters, and I thought a lot about those angry moms. When the AD&D® 2nd Edition rules came out, I had the designers and editors delete all mention of demons and devils. The game still has lots of tough monsters, but we now have a few more pleased moms as well. I know there are many of you out there who are saying to yourselves, "Well, I am going to use demons and devils in my game no matter what TSR does!" That's fine with us. Free choice is one of the positive aspects of role-playing.

Avoiding the Angry Mother Syndrome has become a good, basic guideline for all of the designers and editors at TSR, Inc. But this concept also sets up a whole series of other guidelines to which all of TSR's products must adhere in one way or another. We'll cover them briefly here so that you can see where we are coming from when we design our products. TSR prides itself on the quality of the covers and interior art presented in every product. The male and female figures shown are heroic and good looking, and would get either G or PG movie ratings. Our artwork serves to promote the image of high adventure in our games, but it doesn't deal in blood and gore. That isn't the image we want to project. A painting of a hero about to hew at a monster with his shining broad sword is just as effective (if not more so) as a painting showing the monster's guts being splattered messily about the room.

...

Adventure is the concept that keeps our fans coming back to TSR's modules, time after time. What exactly are those characters doing in those dark dungeons and magical forests? Gamers usually start out with the same pattern to their adventuring: They want to hack some monsters and get some treasure. The more treasure that gamers get, the more they enjoy the
game. But anyone with any intelligence at all (and 99.9% of all role-players have a great deal of intelligence, which is why they enjoy role-playing) finds that hacking and slashing becomes boring very quickly.

TSR has produced its share of hack-and-slash dungeons, but since the late 1970s much more time has been spent on the "saving the princess" idea. "Saving the princess" takes on many forms (in most cases it doesn't even involve a princess), but the concept is almost always the same. Each module creates a situation in which the PCs have a goal worthy of their talents. TSR's products have used hundreds of goals of this sort, such as actually saving a princess, curing silver dragons of a terrible disease, and protecting small towns from raiding giants. Those who play in these modules like heroic goals. They like the challenge of doing something tough; they like to receive rewards for helping others out; and they like to feel good about their characters after these PCs accomplish something useful.

If anything is accomplished by this article, I would like for all readers to be able to point to it as a policy statement of TSR, Inc. This company is interested in presenting material that promotes all of the qualities that parents want their children to have as those children grow up. The bottom line for TSR's role-playing products is that we believe that roleplaying has many positive effects on the role-players themselves. Those benefits are put into our games on purpose. We care about our products and want as few
angry moms as possible.

Exhibit 2. The TSR Code of Ethics. (1995) Retrieved from http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/rec.games.frp.dnd/TSR-Ethics, originally posted to rec.games.frp.dnd by Jim Butler. Again, all emphasis mine.

Quote from: The TSR Code of EthicsTSR CODE OF ETHICS

TSR, Inc., as a publisher of books, games, and game related products, recognizes the social responsibilities that a company such as TSR must assume. TSR has developed this CODE OF ETHICS for use in maintaining good taste, while providing beneficial products within all of its publishing and licensing endeavors.

In developing each of its products, TSR strives to achieve peak entertainment value by providing consumers with a tool for developing social interaction skills and problem-solving capabilities by fostering group cooperation and the desire to learn. Every TSR product is designed to be enjoyed and is not intended to present a style of living for the players of TSR games.

To this end, the company has pledged itself to conscientiously adhere to the following principles:

1: GOOD VERSUS EVIL
Evil shall never be portrayed in an attractive light and shall be used only as a foe to illustrate a moral issue. All product shall focus on the struggle of good versus injustice and evil, casting the protagonist as an agent of right. Archetypes (heroes, villains, etc.) shall be used only to illustrate a moral issue. Satanic symbology, rituals, and phrases shall not appear in TSR products.

2: NOT FOR DUPLICATION
TSR products are intended to be fictional entertainment, and shall not present explicit details and methods of crime, weapon construction, drug use, magic, science, or technologies that could be reasonably duplicated and misused in real life situations. These categories are only to be described for story drama and effect/results in the game or story.

3: AGENTS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
Agents of law enforcement (constables, policemen, judges, government officials, and respected institutions) should not be depicted in such a way as to create disrespect for current established authorities/social values. When such an agent is depicted as corrupt, the example must be expressed as an exception and the culprit should ultimately be brought to justice.

4: CRIME AND CRIMINALS
Crimes shall not be presented in such ways as to promote distrust of law enforcement agents/agencies or to inspire others with the desire to imitate criminals. Crime should be depicted as a sordid and unpleasant activity. Criminals should not be presented in glamorous circumstances. Player character thieves are constantly encouraged to act towards the common good.

5: MONSTERS
Monsters in TSR's game systems can have good or evil goals.  As foes of the protagonists, evil monsters should be able to be clearly defeated in some fashion.  TSR recognizes the ability of an evil creature to change its ways and become beneficial, and does not exclude this possibility in the writing of this code.

6: PROFANITY
Profanity, obscenity, smut, and vulgarity will not be used.

7: DRAMA AND HORROR
The use of drama or horror is acceptable in product development. However, the detailing of sordid vices or excessive gore shall be avoided. Horror, defined as the presence of uncertainty and fear in the tale, shall be permitted and should be implied, rather than graphically detailed.

8: VIOLENCE AND GORE
All lurid scenes of excessive bloodshed, gory or gruesome crimes, depravity, lust, filth, sadism, or masochism, presented in text or graphically, are unacceptable. Scenes of unnecessary violence, extreme brutality, physical agony, and gore, including but not limited to extreme graphic or descriptive scenes presenting cannibalism, decapitation, evisceration, amputation, or other gory injuries, should be avoided.

9: SEXUAL THEMES    
Sexual themes of all types should be avoided.  Rape and graphic lust should never be portrayed or discussed. Explicit sexual activity should not be portrayed. The concept of love or affection for another is not considered part of this definition.

10: NUDITY
Nudity is only acceptable, graphically, when done in a manner that complies with good taste and social standards. Degrading or salacious depiction is unacceptable. Graphic display of reproductive organs, or any facsimiles will not be permitted.

11: AFFLICTION
Disparaging graphic or textual references to physical afflictions, handicaps and deformities are unacceptable. Reference to actual afflictions or handicaps is acceptable only when portrayed or depicted in a manner that favorably educates the consumer on the affliction and in no way promotes disrespect.

12: MATTERS OF RACE
Human and other non-monster character races and nationalities should not be depicted as inferior to other races. All races and nationalities shall be fairly portrayed.

13: SLAVERY
Slavery is not to be depicted in a favorable light; it should only be represented as a cruel and inhuman institution to be abolished.

14: RELIGION AND MYTHOLOGY
The use of religion in TSR products is to assist in clarifying the struggle between good and evil. Actual current religions are not to be depicted, ridiculed, or attacked in any way that promotes disrespect. Ancient or mythological religions, such as those prevalent in ancient Grecian, Roman and Norse societies, may be portrayed in their historic roles (in compliance with this Code of Ethics.) Any depiction of any fantasy religion is not intended as a presentation of an alternative form of worship.

15: MAGIC, SCIENCE, AND TECHNOLOGY
Fantasy literature is distinguished by the presence of magic, super-science or artificial technology that exceeds natural law. The devices are to be portrayed as fictional and used for dramatic effect. They should not appear to be drawn from reality. Actual rituals (spells, incantations, sacrifices, etc.), weapon designs, illegal devices, and other activities of criminal or distasteful nature shall not be presented or provided as reference.

16: NARCOTICS AND ALCOHOL
Narcotic and alcohol abuse shall not be presented, except as dangerous habits. Such abuse should be dealt with by focusing on the harmful aspects.

17: THE CONCEPT OF SELF IN ROLE PLAYING GAMES
The distinction between players and player characters shall be strictly
observed.

It is standard TSR policy to not use 'you' in its advertising or role playing games to suggest that the users of the game systems are actually taking part in the adventure.  It should always be clear that the player's imaginary character is taking part in whatever imaginary action happens during game play.  For example, 'you' don't attack the orcs--'your character' Hrothgar attacks the orcs.

18: LIVE ACTION ROLE-PLAYING
It is TSR policy to not support any live action role-playing game system, no matter how nonviolent the style of gaming is said to be.  TSR recognizes the physical dangers of live action role-playing that promotes its participants to do more than simply imaginein their minds what their characters are doing, and does not wish any game to be harmful.

19: HISTORICAL PRESENTATIONS
While TSR may depict certain historical situations, institutions, or attitudes in a game product, it should not be construed that TSR condones these practices.

Well, fuck me sideways, this patronising lullaby-bullshit is more goddamn fucking heinous than any of the "dangers" it tries to protect TSR's implied target audience - really, really shuttered little kids brought up by 1950s standards? - from. This is not merely intellectually insulting, it is actively despicable.

Just for laughs, here is "Appendix N.", subjected to Jim Ward's article and this bullshit-code (deleted entries are marked in bold red; I also marked entries unfamiliar to me with [?]).

Quote from: AD&D DMGAPPENDIX N: INSPIRATIONAL AND EDUCATIONAL READING

Inspiration for all the fantasy work I have done stems directly from the love my father showed when I was a tad, for he spent many hours telling me stories he made up as he went along, tales of cloaked old men who could grant wishes, of magic rings and enchanted swords, or wicked sorcerors and dauntless swordsmen.

Then too, countless hundreds of comic books went down, and the long-gone EC ones certainly had their effect. Science fiction, fantasy, and horror movies were a big influence. In fact, all of us tend to get ample helpings of fantasy when we are very young from fairy tales such as those written by the Brothers Grimm and Andrew Lang. This often leads to reading books of mythology, paging through bestiaries, and consultation of compilations of the myths of various lands and peoples.

Upon such a base I built my interest in fantasy, being an avid reader of all science fiction and fantasy literature since 1950.

The following authors were of particular inspiration to me. In some cases I cite specific works, in others, I simply recommend all of their fantasy writing to you. From such sources, as well as any other imaginative writing or screenplay, you will be able to pluck kernels from which will grow the fruits of exciting campaigns. Good reading!

Anderson, Poul: THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS; THE HIGH CRUSADE; THE BROKEN SWORD
Bellairs, John: THE FACE IN THE FROST [?]
Brackett, Leigh
Brown, Frederic [?]
Burroughs, Edgar Rice: "Pellucidar" series; Mars series; Venus series
Carter, Lin: "World's End" series [?]
de Camp, L. Sprague: LEST DARKNESS FALL; THE FALLIBLE FIEND; et al [?]
de Camp & Pratt: "Harold Shea" series; THE CARNELIAN CUBE [?]
Derleth, August
Dunsany, Lord [Although The Gods of Pegana are right out]
Farmer, P. J.: "The World of the Tiers" series; et al [?]
Fox, Gardner: "Kothar" series; "Kyrik" series; et al [?]
Howard, R. E.: "Conan" series
Lanier, Sterling: HIERO'S JOURNEY [?]
Leiber, Fritz: "Fafhrd & Gray Mouser" series; et al
Lovecraft, H. P.
Merritt, A.: CREEP, SHADOW, CREEP; MOON POOL; DWELLERS IN THE MIRAGE; et al
Moorcock, Michael: STORMBRINGER; STEALER OF SOULS; "Hawkmoon" series (esp. the first three books)
Norton, Andre
Offutt, Andrew J.: editor of SWORDS AGAINST DARKNESS III [?]
Pratt, Fletcher: BLUE STAR; et al [?]
Saberhagen, Fred: CHANGELING EARTH; et al [?]
St. Clair, Margaret: THE SHADOW PEOPLE; SIGN OF THE LABRYS [?]
Tolkien, J. R. R.: THE HOBBIT; "Ring trilogy"
Vance, Jack: THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al
Weinbaum, Stanley [?]
Wellman, Manley Wade
Williamson, Jack [?]
Zelazny, Roger: JACK OF SHADOWS; "Amber" series; et al

Notwithstanding the items on the list I am unfamiliar with, almost none of these works meet the ass-backwards standards of those documents. They excise myth, history, almost all classic works of fantasy worth reading and even the majority of fairy tales, leaving behind some accidental pieces that would pass the sensibilities of people who, I assume, would still consider The Beatles or The Rolling Stones or Elvis Presley "shocking filth". I am not prone to glorifying shock for shock's sake in a raggiesque fashion, but this shit right here is one of the main reasons I consider 2e's ethos dumb and insulting. We mostly played 2e when we were teens, and even then, we knew this dumb and insulting bullshit to be dumb and insulting bullshit. I suppose it also contributed hugely to White Wolf's success - because they were promoting vampirism, lesbianism, drug use, the depiction of violence, paganism and loud music in their products.

[edit]Oh yeah, and I finally found this quote by Geoffrey:

Quote from: GeoffreyThe Bible couldn't get past the TSR Code of Ethics, either. "Hide your Bibles! The children might see them!"

:hatsoff:

Holy shitsnacks.  That shit is ridic.  

The black-and-white, good-vs-evil-no-exceptions bullshit is especially sickening, as well as the reference to authority/police figures being portrayed respectfully all the time.  I don't know what world these people were living in back then, but I want some of the same stuff they were smoking if they think that sort of "mental training" will prepare young people for the real world.

Quote from: Melan;454167No. No. That's not a "daft statement", that's a goddamn mission statement by none other but TSR, Inc.

Exhibit 1. James M. Ward (1990): Angry mothers from Heck (And what we are doing about them). Dragon Magazine 154, p. 9. (Text from The Dragon Archives, emphasis all mine.)


Exhibit 2. The TSR Code of Ethics. (1995) Retrieved from http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/rec.games.frp.dnd/TSR-Ethics, originally posted to rec.games.frp.dnd by Jim Butler. Again, all emphasis mine.



Well, fuck me sideways, this patronising lullaby-bullshit is more goddamn fucking heinous than any of the "dangers" it tries to protect TSR's implied target audience - really, really shuttered little kids brought up by 1950s standards? - from. This is not merely intellectually insulting, it is actively despicable.

Just for laughs, here is "Appendix N.", subjected to Jim Ward's article and this bullshit-code (deleted entries are marked in bold red; I also marked entries unfamiliar to me with [?]).

Notwithstanding the items on the list I am unfamiliar with, almost none of these works meet the ass-backwards standards of those documents. They excise myth, history, almost all classic works of fantasy worth reading and even the majority of fairy tales, leaving behind some accidental pieces that would pass the sensibilities of people who, I assume, would still consider The Beatles or The Rolling Stones or Elvis Presley "shocking filth". I am not prone to glorifying shock for shock's sake in a raggiesque fashion, but this shit right here is one of the main reasons I consider 2e's ethos dumb and insulting. We mostly played 2e when we were teens, and even then, we knew this dumb and insulting bullshit to be dumb and insulting bullshit. I suppose it also contributed hugely to White Wolf's success - because they were promoting vampirism, lesbianism, drug use, the depiction of violence, paganism and loud music in their products.

[edit]Oh yeah, and I finally found this quote by Geoffrey:

:hatsoff:

Fair enough

Never stopped me killing the whole party whilst they were asleep and stealling all their stuff mind

This actually sounds like a mission statement from Koltar of all people who would have thunk it.

jibbajibba: And in my turn to be fair, company policy is not to be equated with the practice of play. They are different things. (After all, our 2e campaigns were also completely outside the model TSR advocated at that time.)

Quote from: Melan;454167No. No. That's not a "daft statement", that's a goddamn mission statement by none other but TSR, Inc.
*SNIP*

I think I've seen some of this before.  I can see the shift from the PC's being "roguish mercenaries" to "stalwart heroes," but most of the other stuff addressed I don't see as making much of an effect in the actual game.  Looking at that mission statement, though, it makes me wonder how they were able to put out such "dark" settings as Ravenloft and Dark Sun.

99% of Appendix N has to go, per Jim Ward's quoted statement.

World of Tiers?  That's pretty racy stuff.
Lest Darkness Fall?  Gone.
Better drop The Lord of the Rings, and The Hobbit, too, while we're at it.  Bilbo's a thief, and is good(ish) at what he does.  Think of it: thievery, a crime, is being not only rewarded but held up in high regard by the main characters' friends and allies.  The Lord of the Rings is the fruit of those efforts, and I can't count the number of vulgar an- fuck this shit.

FUCK THIS SHIT.

I can't even go through this ironically without having a bad taste in my mouth.

That, ladies, and gentlemen, is a large part of what was wrong with 2e.  Yes, yes, I know, "at your table" and so on and etcetera.  But Ward's statements weren't about your table, they were about changing the whole corporate culture from what it had been to a candy-coated tapdancing mess among other stupidities.

Just good public relations, really. At the time I found it preferable to White Wolf shock tactic grimdark, but it was a different era.

On the literature list I'm mostly scratching my head at your ? thingies as well. I doubt Philip Jose Farmer could do something without lots of gratuitous sex, though I haven't read World of Tiers. 'Changeling Earth' was also published as Empire of the East, if that's any more familiar - not particularly graphic in its evil though there's some human sacrifice at some point that I recall. Lin Carter's World's End stuff (the only one I recall being Giant of World's End) was fairly violent - standard Sword & Sorcery here - and probably wouldn't pass muster on that count. Jack Williamson is probably mostly harmless though I don't know which book they're referencing here, and I've mostly read his SF stuff.

'Three Hearts and Three Lions' is an interesting inclusion. The main protagonist often gets quoted as a classic example of how to play a paladin, but there's still a chapter in there where he indecently assaults a swanmay (and he does some wenching with some elves at some point as well).

The question marks are for books I haven't read, not uncertain cases. Actually, almost all books from that list I have read would be thrown out.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;454140I'm extremely tempted to take OQ or MRQ2 and do a Humans-Only version of the first version of the setting with all the Rajaat shit ignored.

Way back when I played a Dark Sun Warhammer 1e conversion at GenCon. The GM had converted everything to the WFRP system and it was surprisingly awesome. It got nasty, nasty quick!

Dark Sun is an awesome concept and I doubt you lose anything when converting it to whatever system you enjoy.

Quote from: Peregrin;454168Holy shitsnacks.

My feelings exactly.

Quote from: Peregrin;454168I don't know what world these people were living in back then, but I want some of the same stuff they were smoking if they think that sort of "mental training" will prepare young people for the real world.

Let me tell you about that world.

The big mouths of the time were the born again moral majority parents-against-everything assholes. Even that cunt Tipper Gore got into the panic with her crusade against rap and metal. The 80s was the beginning of the 24/7 news cycle and "screaming mommies" was easy content that always sold to the 50+ geezer fucks who sat glued to their 13 inch screens.

TSR had no balls and unlike the music companies who stood their ground, the leader of the RPG industry fell to its needs in front of the Angry Mommies.

Oddly, the entertainment world was split. TV was utterly pussified by the Angry Mommies, but movies pushed into PG-13 and R rated films became more popular.

Even more oddly, Palladium still puts their bizarre disclaimer in front of every book to fend off the Angry Mommies, even though their content has always been outside the TSR code.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;454205Just good public relations, really.

It was an awesome move for White Wolf, Palladium and Warhammer!

Perhaps it was good for TSR sales when you think back about how the Angry Mommies got D&D banned at many schools across the USA and how churches crusaded against their product. I remember reading about a D&D book burning by a church group.

I can only imagine how much hate mail and threats were leveled at TSR. It must have been notable. In a panic to defend the company, it is not surprising they went the pussy route.

Of course, this all seems laughable today now that the conservatives lost the Culture War and nobody cares if gays, rap music, blacks kissing whites and even marijuana show up an 8pm sitcom.

Quote from: Spinachcat;454225The big mouths of the time were the born again moral majority parents-against-everything assholes. Even that cunt Tipper Gore got into the panic with her crusade against rap and metal. The 80s was the beginning of the 24/7 news cycle and "screaming mommies" was easy content that always sold to the 50+ geezer fucks who sat glued to their 13 inch screens.
.

I grew up in a town where a lot of this anti-D&D stuff was common at the churches (lived there between 84-89) and it resulted in me not being able to play for a couple of years (at least not openly)---I also had all my Iron Maiden tapes taken away as well. Your right, now it sounds nuts, but at the time some people just wouldn't listen to reason.

I think in the case of TSR they were an especially big target because role playing was a pretty new concept. It was easy to make claims about it causing suicide or demon worship. I don't think they should have capitulated to pressure, but I do understand why they did. And I think a lot of cool stuff still came out from TSR during that time.

Quote from: Spinachcat;454225Even more oddly, Palladium still puts their bizarre disclaimer in front of every book to fend off the Angry Mommies, even though their content has always been outside the TSR code.

I love Palladium's disclaimer. To me it reads like giant :rolleyes: at anyone who gets bent out of shape over the content of the books.