Quote from: ColonelHardisson;352772I knew the classic old sourcebooks were there, as well as the new stuff that was more generalized, but are they doing new sourcebooks on specific subjects? I mean stuff like The Prisoner or Lensmen, but subjects they haven't covered before.

Yup. GURPS Martial Arts: Gladiators, for instance.

Quote from: Claudius;352635Whereas GURPS is generic, Capitán Alatriste is not. You won't find long lists of advantages, disadvantages and skills, there are only those which are truly needed. Chargen is a breeze, no minimanagement of character points. For me, it has all the things I like about GURPS without the things I don't like.
(...)
This is what GURPS needs, self contained books with everything you need to play. The question is, would it sell?

Hellboy was a GURPS-powered stand-alone game, and I liked it despite my reservations about GURPS in general. So GURPS would probably succeed in offering me similar setting-specific books -- but lose all those fans that like GURPS because of its tookbox approach.

TWO Things:

First: Did you guys or the OP know that he has an account on here?

Second: Based on comments and postings on the orange & fluffy forum, Sean Punch/Kromm has been on vacation the past week or so.


- Ed C.

(shrugs) I think Punch does a good job and 4e is nicely consolidated, but GURPS by the end of 3e was a mess and there's a *lot* of stuff. Too much for me.

The "Powered-By" line at the end of 3e was rather nice and a good drawin. You didn't need 2 core books and a genre book and/or world book, all expensive hardbacks, just to play, you only needed one.

It got me to try out GURPS WWII, Discworld, Transhuman Space and take a look at Hellboy and I wish there'd been a Traveller one. I have no idea why it wasn't continued on into 4e.

The historical etc. source & world books not selling enough per cost to make I can understand, though not like.

For a time HERO 4th was kinda like GURPS 3e used to be, lots of meaty, useful, cheap softcover genre and world books.

I still like the idea of GURPS but like HERO and even BESM now it's gotten too much and too inclusive for my tastes with no real "outofthebox" version anymore. I'm actually looking forward to see how OVA revised turns out, having been disappointed with the first release which was both too simple and too complex.

Quote from: Casey777;352832(shrugs) I think Punch does a good job and 4e is nicely consolidated, but GURPS by the end of 3e was a mess and there's a *lot* of stuff. Too much for me.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think, too. It's similar to why I'm not interested in HERO. I can't agree that Punch ruined GURPS. He actually improved on it in many ways from 3E, and it's not his fault that there's just so much stuff rules-wise. The most difficult part of the whole game still seems to be the character generation. Actual play has been pretty smooth, in my experience, though admittedly I haven't tried to use any of the more complex powers, innate attacks, afflictions, etc.

QuoteIt got me to try out GURPS WWII, Discworld, Transhuman Space and take a look at Hellboy and I wish there'd been a Traveller one. I have no idea why it wasn't continued on into 4e.

If you're talking about "Powered By," I think so far it's just that they haven't worked out any deals like that with other IPs. I haven't seen anything about them being suddenly hostile to the idea of 4e "Powered By" games. Vorkoskigan is a setting sourcebook, but IIRC(and I might not, but if if if) Girl Genius was supposed to be self-contained.

If you're talking about Traveller, they did release a new edition of the setting for 4e here. I don't know much about Traveller, but I think the new edition takes place a bit earlier in the timeline or something like that. Some people love that; some people don't; I don't have an opinion either way.

QuoteThe historical etc. source & world books not selling enough per cost to make I can understand, though not like.

Yeah, this is why I like that electronic publishing is becoming more common. It allows them to get some things out that wouldn't be profitable enough for a real print run. The most popular stuff does get turned into print product, although it'd be nice if they at least offered a discount to people who already bought the PDFs(they might, but I haven't heard of such).

Quotekinda like GURPS 3e used to be, lots of meaty, useful, cheap softcover genre and world books.

GURPS 3E was around for a very long time. Even with them releasing smaller, more niche products electronically it's just going to take a while for them to get anywhere near as large a library as they had for the older edition. Also, a number of the older supplements were mostly "fluff." With those electronically available(and quite a few pretty easy to find in print if you know where to look), I can't see the point in giving them what would essentially be a new paint job. What few rules bits some of them had(mostly stat blocks) can be converted pretty easily w/ one of the free PDFs they offer.

QuoteI still like the idea of GURPS but like HERO and even BESM now it's gotten too much and too inclusive for my tastes with no real "outofthebox" version anymore. I'm actually looking forward to see how OVA revised turns out, having been disappointed with the first release which was both too simple and too complex.

Yeah, pretty much all of the games I've played recently have been a lot less rules-heavy(from chargen to actual play) than GURPS, and much more tightly focused. Over time, that means the total number of rules that I've memorized probably outweigh those in GURPS, but each individual game is a much smaller chunk, which allows me to get into actual play faster even while switching games.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;352646I dunno anything about Sean Punch, but I do know that the 4e GURPS books I've bought - Infinite Worlds, Space, Fantasy - are some of the finest game books I've ever read. They make great sources for their respective genres, useful for any RPG, and even good as quick ready refs for a writer.

I frequently find this to be true of GURPS supplements. Yet I can't stand the rules.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;352825Hellboy was a GURPS-powered stand-alone game, and I liked it despite my reservations about GURPS in general. So GURPS would probably succeed in offering me similar setting-specific books -- but lose all those fans that like GURPS because of its tookbox approach.

They tried it with a few books, didn't seem to work out well in the end.

I think they hung it on liscences too much.  Discworld, Myth (video game), Hell boy are all cool liscences but they're obscure.

World War II?  Well, I just don't think the target market is new gamers or new GURPS players at that point.

What is needed is GURPS BASIC FANTASY, GURPS BASIC SPACE OPERA, and GURPS BASIC SUPERS.

Hellboy is an obscure lisence?

Quote from: Aos;352863Hellboy is an obscure lisence?

It was until the movies got made.


- Ed C.

you smell funny.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;352841I frequently find this to be true of GURPS supplements. Yet I can't stand the rules.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the rules, but I've had tons of the old softcover supplements over the years. Sadly, I had to get rid of quite a few due to space constraints, but I managed to hang onto some of the better ones.

Regarding the question of obscurity, I have to say that as a frequent buyer of GURPS supplements, but not a player, that the licensed material was the vast majority of what I was interested in. Sure, the current "generic" hardbacks they're making are fantastic, but I can tell you that I've already stopped buying books in the line because I have the ones that cover the genres I'm interested in. If they jump back into licenses - I dunno, maybe Battlestar Galactica, Avatar, God of War, etc. - then I'd be more interested.

I thought GURPS 4e was a very well done compendium of GURPS rules, and I'm not really a big GURPS fan (I dislike the basic mechanics if nothing else).  The rules seem quite well done and streamlined, and I quite like the layout of the core books.

That said, GURPS 4e seems really fucking boring compared to 3e.

Most GURPS 3e books instantly fired off the old imagination.  The 4e books are these giant monstrosities that all I can do is go "look, 400 pages and I still have jack shit usable out of the box".  I don't want to read them so much as have a burning desire to edit them (and by edit, I mean chop huge fucking sections out of the books).

I understood the need for the core books to be that way.  But every book is now that way.  I don't want to have to buy a half dozen huge books, read hundreds or thousands of pages, and then have to spend months coming up with all my own shit anyways.

Is Sean Punch responsible for the decision to create giant hardcovers crammed with bland filler for everything?  If so, then I could see the OP's point.  If he's not the one who made that decision, then I would disagree.

I don't really get that complaint. GURPS 4e is the most "ready out of the box" version ever published, complete with a house setting and enough general rules to cover everything from ancient Rome to Star Wars to X-Men.

Quote from: pawsplay;352935I don't really get that complaint. GURPS 4e is the most "ready out of the box" version ever published, complete with a house setting and enough general rules to cover everything from ancient Rome to Star Wars to X-Men.

Well suppose you are a D&D player disgruntled with with 4th edition and wants to try an alternate Fantasy RPG. GURPS has been around a while and has a reputation for being flexible, allowing totally custom character  for being some what realistic.

So you buy the two core rule book.

You read the two core rule books.
No monster manual, a lot of stuff about guns, geology, ah templates that seem the ticket but for fantasy we got Mage, possibly soldier of fortune, Dragon, dwarf and vampire.

Wait there is GURPS Fantasy so I buy that. Sure that better but then I find out there is GURPS Magic that has expanded version of the magic system in the Core Book.

Now I spent over $100 on GURPS Books and the monster list is nowhere near as comprehensive as other FRPGs. The same for magic items. There is no adventure in a format commonly used by D&D players. And the Fantasy Setting is a fantasy Rome which doesn't really relate to what most D&D player are used too.

Individually each of these weaknesses could be overcome by the general quality of the GURPS line but together they present a formidable barrier to the novice looking for an alternative from D&D. And like or not the prime source of players for second tier RPGS are ex-D&D players.

Now if GURPS was focus on a different genre like say Call of Cthulu or Rifts then it would a different situation. But GURPS has positioned itself as a universal system with the fantasy genre as an important component.

These issues would be addressed by making a one book Fantasy RPG that is powered by GURPS. The same for Space and Horror. Supported by a handful of adventures each these three book would allow RPG players a clear pathway to learning GURPS and enjoying the rest of the line.

Otherwise the player base of GURPS will continue remain static or worse erode. HERO Games suffers the same issue as well. Chaosium does it better by offering Basic Roleplaying but still having Call of Cthulu and other game that are based on the system. You don't need to buy Basic Roleplaying to play the other RPGs.