The rules are objectively better, but require so much reading that after already slogging through the corebooks I can't be arsed to read things like Martial Arts and Powers no matter how great they might be. It's just too much.

Still, my only real complaint w/ the system is still there. Advantages are priced by usefulness, but skills are priced by difficulty. It's just this weird dissonance in the middle of an otherwise pretty cohesive system.

Quote from: estar;352595The recent Dungeon Fantasy... still doesn't have a listing of magic items.

Just FYI

http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0310
http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0313

Quote from: KrakaJak;352535Now it's all realism, realism, realism. In the most boring and well researched way possible. Text books have more flavor.

Quote from: The Butcher;352579Not being a GURPS man, sounds like this Punch person is playing to one of the game's strengths, viz. "realism" (I prefer "verisimilitude" or "grittiness" but that'd be splitting hairs).

I dunno, I think complaining about "realism" in GURPS is like complaining that Rifts is over-the-top, or that Star Wars is soft SF. *shrug*

I admit I only know GURPS 3rd revised and GURPS 4th, I didn't read earlier editions, but unless I'm wrong the point of GURPS has always been realism and verisimilitude, both in system and setting. In fact, GURPS 4th is the edition which best supports cinematic gaming. What The Butcher said, basically.

EDIT: And scooped by pawsplay.

Quote from: estar;352595Distilled into ready to run genre books (where all you need it the one book) GURPS could remain indefintiely as a second tier RPG. As it stands now I see it's fanbase steadily declining due to the fact it takes a fair amount of investment of time and money to get going with the system.

GURPS was one of my favorite RPGs, but lately I've grown disenchanted with it. My problems are the long lists of skills, advantages and disadvantages, and the onerous chargen, which is a chore. On the other hand, I adore the system, it's easy, simple, and fast, it rocks.

For those of you who don't know, there is an RPG about the Captain Alatriste novels (there's a review in rpg.net here). The system it uses is GURPS with the serial numbers filed off, but the approach is very different. Whereas GURPS is generic, Capitán Alatriste is not. You won't find long lists of advantages, disadvantages and skills, there are only those which are truly needed. Chargen is a breeze, no minimanagement of character points. For me, it has all the things I like about GURPS without the things I don't like.

A few weeks ago I was talking to a friend, the one who GMs Capitán Alatriste, and I told him, that I find combat maneuvers in CA simple and easy to understand, but the combat maneuvers of GURPS, brr, to this day I'm not sure how they work. GURPS Martial Arts looks cool, but it's intimidating, the thought of having to write down all those maneuvers in the character sheet makes me not want to GM or play it.

This is what GURPS needs, self contained books with everything you need to play. The question is, would it sell?

I heard that Sean Punch once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die ("for game research," he was reported to have said to horrified onlookers).

I dunno anything about Sean Punch, but I do know that the 4e GURPS books I've bought - Infinite Worlds, Space, Fantasy - are some of the finest game books I've ever read. They make great sources for their respective genres, useful for any RPG, and even good as quick ready refs for a writer.

That said, I badly miss the old softcover sourcebooks that covered such a wide variety of subjects. I have had quite a few of them over the years, and I would've liked to have seen ones for more recent subjects, or ones that haven't been covered yet.

Quote from: ticopelp;352626Just FYI

http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0310
http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0313

Yes it is a great system for generating magic items. But not the list of Magic Items that a GURPS Fantasy RPG will need.

Quote from: Claudius;352635GURPS was one of my favorite RPGs, but lately I've grown disenchanted with it. My problems are the long lists of skills, advantages and disadvantages, and the onerous chargen, which is a chore. On the other hand, I adore the system, it's easy, simple, and fast, it rocks.

The main reason that my groups continues to play GURPS is because we distilled it into the type of fantasy we play. This occurred in the mid 90s. If it wasn't for that then I doubt we would be using it.

Quote from: Danger;352636I heard that Sean Punch once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die ("for game research," he was reported to have said to horrified onlookers).

You sure that wasn't distorted from "He had a Shot with a Man"....

He is afficianado of fine wines and beverages after all.


- Ed C.


Yeah, yeah I did get your joke and what movie character you were alluding to....

Quote from: Kyle AaronWell, he was a particle physicist... to be honest, it shows in the rules.

This. This is it. This is the problem.
 

Quote from: The ButcherI dunno, I think complaining about "realism" in GURPS is like complaining that Rifts is over-the-top, or that Star Wars is soft SF. *shrug*

GURPS was able to do more realistic settings. However, you could also as easily do comical games (IOU, Discw, Hellboy)orld, *pew-pew* laser sci-fi.
 
Read Gurps Space, it's so far removed from science fiction, Star Wars is mentioned twice, Halo is only mentioned in a single sentence.
 

Quote from: pawsplayTrue. And also, GURPS 4e has more support for non-realistic games than any previous edition, times five, so I have no idea what the OP is on about.

Where. I see 37 sourcebooks on my shelf of fantastical settings for Gurps 3rd. For 4th have 3 (Powers, Magic, Thaumatology), there might be 2-3 more.
 
 

Quote from: theworldWhile I find that sometimes GURPS goes a bit far (read nitpicky) for my tastes, I also find that a firm grounding in reality makes fantasy proceeding from it richer and more believable. Going to have to see more evidence for me to agree with you (unless I'm simply missing a joke here, which is entirely within the realm of possibility).

Look at how much shelf space Gurps 4th has at your local game store. Look at how Gurps is only supported by infrequent releases of 32 pg .pdfs. Look at how the only settings are Verkosigan Saga (wtf?), Infinite Worlds and Traveller.

Quote from: KrakaJak;352665Look at how much shelf space Gurps 4th has at your local game store.

Around here, as much space as any other non-D&D game on the market.

Quote from: KrakaJak;352665Look at how Gurps is only supported by infrequent releases of 32 pg .pdfs. Look at how the only settings are Verkosigan Saga (wtf?), Infinite Worlds and Traveller.

Hmm. A cursory glance at the GURPS site shows about thirteen new releases in the past three months (most of them 64-110 pages), plus a monthly PDF magazine. Not including reprints and out-of-print books made available digitally. What would you consider a "frequent" release schedule?

Quote from: KrakaJak;352665Look at how the only settings are Verkosigan Saga (wtf?), Infinite Worlds and Traveller.

I think Phil Reed has said on a few occasions that the historical setting books aren't being updated because generally speaking, the 3rd edition versions didn't sell very well. Remember "Middle Ages I," so named because it was to be the first in a series?

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;352646I dunno anything about Sean Punch, but I do know that the 4e GURPS books I've bought - Infinite Worlds, Space, Fantasy - are some of the finest game books I've ever read. They make great sources for their respective genres, useful for any RPG, and even good as quick ready refs for a writer.

That said, I badly miss the old softcover sourcebooks that covered such a wide variety of subjects. I have had quite a few of them over the years, and I would've liked to have seen ones for more recent subjects, or ones that haven't been covered yet.

A lot of that stuff is on e23 now.

Quote from: David Johansen;352607Well, Steffan O Sullivan ruined GURPS but that was long ago.  The problem is that GURPS used to have a reasonably compact point of entry.  Now it has a mega edition without one.

The HERO 6th edition Basic book is exactly what GURPS needs.  

There's a basic GURPS 4e book, too.

http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004

Quote from: KrakaJak;352665This. This is it. This is the problem.
 

 
GURPS was able to do more realistic settings. However, you could also as easily do comical games (IOU, Discw, Hellboy)orld, *pew-pew* laser sci-fi.

Actually, in 1e and 2e, GURPS had only hyper-realistic, conservatively statted lasers. The first time I remember seeing "blasters" was in 3e. 4e not only introduces tons of cinematic tech in Ultra-Tech, but has the Tales of the Solar Patrol setting and various other support.

Field-jacketed particle beams are Star Wars blasters, FYI, the force sword is still in there, and a pulse laser rifle is a good stand-in for a Wookiee "laser crossbow."

QuoteRead Gurps Space, it's so far removed from science fiction, Star Wars is mentioned twice, Halo is only mentioned in a single sentence.

Removed from science fiction? It's not a dedicated space opera setting, sure.
 

QuoteWhere. I see 37 sourcebooks on my shelf of fantastical settings for Gurps 3rd. For 4th have 3 (Powers, Magic, Thaumatology), there might be 2-3 more.
 

It's not a fair comparison, since 4e is younger, but right off the bat... the core rulebooks contains the Infinite Worlds campaign, which has its own sourcebook as well, and is incredibly fantastic and encompasses the vast majority of 3e fantastic settings.

Besides that, you have Banestorm, Dragons, Supers, Psychic Powers, Tales of the Solar Patrol, an updated GURPS IST for Infinite Worlds, and plenty of other stuff.

In addition, the core rules now support numerous cinematic options.

Quote from: pawsplay;352700A lot of that stuff is on e23 now.

I knew the classic old sourcebooks were there, as well as the new stuff that was more generalized, but are they doing new sourcebooks on specific subjects? I mean stuff like The Prisoner or Lensmen, but subjects they haven't covered before.