What is a game, like Traveller's "hard science" response to people growing up in a low g environment?  MonTraveller 2e describes an acclimation period.  However we know today that astronauts lose 1-2% muscle mass/month in zero g even with some attempts at exercise.

How does Traveller or other sci fi games cover how iliving in low g affects the body?  Or is there a drug or some other kind of treatment do counter that?  Thanks.

Quote from: Vic99;959883What is a game, like Traveller's "hard science" response to people growing up in a low g environment?  MonTraveller 2e describes an acclimation period.  However we know today that astronauts lose 1-2% muscle mass/month in zero g even with some attempts at exercise.

How does Traveller or other sci fi games cover how iliving in low g affects the body?  Or is there a drug or some other kind of treatment do counter that?  Thanks.

Universe had a drug and something else to compensate I believe. Possibly also advanced medical science.

Star Frontiers kept the ships nearly all the time under thrust either outbound or inbound so actual weightlessness was rare aside from spacewalks.

Albedo had advanced medical science to compensate. Its also one of the few to address quarantine and decontamination when traveling between planets.

All of these were created before the effects of space travel were well known. Each takes its own stab at addressing the then known problems.

Buck Rogers is the other RPG with a more hard science ships. But I have no clue if or how they addressed the problems.

Traveller has artificial gravity and gravity manipulation.  It's hard science fiction by the standards of the sixties and seventies.  They make a fixed number of fantastical changes and speculate on their effects on society.  In particular Traveller posits that space travel and ftl are relatively cheap and easy due to gravity manipulation technology but that information cannot travel faster than ships and is slow enough that sub-par worlds are frequently settled and the whole thing operates under a feudal system.

Anyhow, they probably have drugs to treat long term low gee exposure in every medical bay but the main solution is making gravity.

One I've used, in my games is that the standard ship board duty suit actually provides constant resistance to motion, thus allowing muscle tone to be maintained.

There are several answers to oyur question, besides the gravitic control one:
A. Muscle and bone mass retention problems are genetic in nature, and can be solved by applying genetic engineering or breeding properly
B. You take a drug which forces calcium deposition. This, along with exercise with the proper equipment, solves the problem.
C. Ship engines are designed for constant thrust, which functions as gravity on ships. Stations spin.
D. Ships spin all or part of themselves while coasting, like stations.

Here is an idea for maintaining an artificial gravity I had last month. It turns out NASA thought of of it decades ago, but as far as I know it has never been used by SF authors.

The Track Ring contains three maglev tracks on the inside. It is oriented in a plane perpendicular to the thrust, and connected to the ship by cables fore and aft in a cross-braced pattern like a wire car wheel. The fore maglev track contains a single/two train(s) - single if it goes all the way around, double if not, with the trains 180 degrees apart. the train(s) on this track go either clockwise or counter clockwise at a speed calculated to give sufficient centrifugal gravity for sustained healthy living on the floor of the train at a ring diameter of x. The aft track holds an identical set up, with the cars running in the direction opposite to that on the fore track.

The center track holds a small train, the Sync Car. This car is designed to match speeds with either of the other two trains, and lock in with a side air lock, so that passengers can move between the main train and Sync Car at speed. When the passengers are set, the Sync Car slows down and joins airlocks with a spur - the Fixed Station - coming out from the ship just far enough to reach the top of the Sync Car. The Fixed Station is under micro-G (except under thrust) like the rest of the ship, including the Sync Car when it is stationary. The Sync Car would have a left and right airlock, to join with either of the main trains, but the top airlock would be part of the Fixed Station

Note that the Ring should be of sufficient diameter (x) that the coriolis effect will not be too noticeable, and that the Gravity Train cars can be of whatever width and height gives sufficient internal area and volume for living and working space, and may be of more than one level. The two main trains rotate in different directions to counter torque, with the movements of the small Sync Car compensated for as necessary. It would be possible to run the two trains as different shifts, as required.

I came up with the main features of the design, with my writing partner Albert Bailey suggesting the cable bracing. It is more flexible and simpler than a hub-and-spoke rotating section, with the airlocks being the biggest wear points, as there are no bearing surfaces. It runs in a vacuum, so there is no air resistance, and would be cold enough to use superconductors for maximum energy efficiency.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2GcnTAG91n8/WMTUKhbcLnI/AAAAAAAAElM/V0Gys1H3D7M6SbZvPTW5eVo4kt0KAAufgCLcB/s1600/MaglevRoratigCylinder.png

Traveller is not a simulator. Plots are more concerned with other things in the game, anyway.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;959922Traveller is not a simulator. Plots are more concerned with other things in the game, anyway.

Speaking for all Traveller players and referees, are we?

Great thread.

Quote from: David Johansen;959893One I've used, in my games is that the standard ship board duty suit actually provides constant resistance to motion, thus allowing muscle tone to be maintained.

That's a good one, as long one has a flip-off-isometric-resistance suit for emergencies, and the discipline to keep it on every day.

Quote from: flyingmice;959902There are several answers to oyur question, besides the gravitic control one:
A. Muscle and bone mass retention problems are genetic in nature, and can be solved by applying genetic engineering or breeding properly
B. You take a drug which forces calcium deposition. This, along with exercise with the proper equipment, solves the problem.
C. Ship engines are designed for constant thrust, which functions as gravity on ships. Stations spin.
D. Ships spin all or part of themselves while coasting, like stations.

A. Epigenetic, technically. Microgravity messes with gene expression in bone and muscle cells. Maybe the right drugs can drag it back on track?
B. See above, but I suspect modern-day bone resorption inhibitors won't quite cut it.
C. and D. Wonder how practical that would be?

Quote from: Dumarest;959925Speaking for all Traveller players and referees, are we?

Christ, is Shawn still around? Doesn't everyone have him on ignore?

Quote from: David Johansen;959893Traveller has artificial gravity and gravity manipulation.  It's hard science fiction by the standards of the sixties and seventies.

I don't think Traveller was ever hard science and I don't think the standards have changed. It was based on H. Beam Piper, E.C. Tubb, Asimov, Edmond Hamilton (his Star Wolf novels). Not ridiculous space opera and somewhat grounded, but never hard science.

Quote from: JeremyR;959950I don't think Traveller was ever hard science and I don't think the standards have changed. It was based on H. Beam Piper, E.C. Tubb, Asimov, Edmond Hamilton (his Star Wolf novels). Not ridiculous space opera and somewhat grounded, but never hard science.

No offense, JeremyR, but were you a SF fan in the 60s and 70s? I was. Those authors were considered "Hard" in those days. The definition has changed. David is entirely correct.

I don't think anyone ever considered E.C. Tubb "hard" sci fi. He barely gets into the science in any books I have read. More like science fantasy.

Quote from: Vic99;959883What is a game, like Traveller's "hard science" response to people growing up in a low g environment?  MonTraveller 2e describes an acclimation period.  However we know today that astronauts lose 1-2% muscle mass/month in zero g even with some attempts at exercise.

How does Traveller or other sci fi games cover how iliving in low g affects the body?  Or is there a drug or some other kind of treatment do counter that?  Thanks.

In my hard scifi games, it depends:
1) Ships have rotating sections for pseudo gravity.
2) Crews and passengers have to face the medical problems of a journey in 0-G, i.e. rehab after they return to a planet. This usually happens in downtime.
3) People in space are cyborgs, AIs, gengineered or otherwise modified and/or take drugs that negate the effects.

Personally I dont consider artificial gravity to be Hard Fiction. (yet) That tends to nudge a setting for me out of that realm a little, or a-lot, depending on what else is fantastical too.

Last I knew Traveller was definitely not Hard Fiction. Though the tech can be toned down to get there? Same with Universe. Though I dont think it ever states if there is artificial gravity. I'd have to go back and check. The Pandora has AG though so I assume yes Universe does.

High Colonies is another for the Hard Fiction list. It seems like theres no AG but I do not recall any mention of counters to zero-G or low-G life?

Quote from: Dumarest;959974I don't think anyone ever considered E.C. Tubb "hard" sci fi. He barely gets into the science in any books I have read. More like science fantasy.

Asimov was certainly considered 'hard sf' back in the day, and the Traveller Imperium is basically his Empire.

I like the resistance suit and grav plate concepts.

If you can have fusion drives that open up a tiny dimension to fold space and travel far, then you can have resistance suits and grave plates, in my view.  Thanks for all the suggestions.