Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
TBH, I'm not going to criticize her (or anyone) for working in the adult entertainment industry.

But not paying freelancers (and other alleged monetary anomalies) is exceedingly poor form. I say this as a freelance artist and I've experienced being ripped off.

And paying by the word for writers seems a bit penny-pinching too.

Paying by the word seems to be the standard in the freelance community for writers.  It's shitty but there aren't many companies like LotFP who profit share with the writers.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on June 14, 2022, 07:34:17 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
  I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site.  I think that might help them with perspective.

Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).

Thats one of the sketchy parts of this whole drama saga: when do people get paid

Now i read on one of the discord screenshots that folks were asking to be paid BEFORE their edits and changes were approved.  Just by turning in your draft doesnt mean you get paid then and there.   Contracts and terms do exist for a reason and you dont get paid for garbage, unusable ,gibberish text. Not paying people post edit and after requesting an invoice? Scummy

That part these folk have to understand you are writing RPG material not to get rich but because you enjoy doing the work and seeing the result.

The internet is making this molehill into a mountain.  At least bring us more popcorn.

I've represented as an attorney some people in the RPG field. And paying late was not uncommon. But as an attorney, who felt it was enjoyable to do work in the RPG industry, I just let it go. Everyone was polite about it and upfront. They didn't make promises they couldn't keep and let me know they were going to be late, and what had happened, and I always was eventually paid. Sometimes I even got sample products as a thank you for accepting the delay in payment.

Doing that with artists (writers, editors, illustrators, map makers, etc.) seems a lot more rude though. Creators know other creators are working on a far more thin budget than an attorney.

Satine Phoenix, is a Hype person.  Hey, this is awesome!!!  Look how awesome this is!!!  She knows how to put on a fake smile, and hype stuff up.  That's the game she plays.

Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8

Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8

Sooo...that was painful to watch.  For a lot of reasons.  But thanks for posting the link.  My morbid fascination dictated I watch the whole thing and it's 45 minutes I'll never get back.  I doubt anyone's minds were changed.  People were either already pulling for her or urging her to disappear from the scene (after making amends to the unpaid).

I'm in the latter camp, but she did note that many of the accusers that have come forward were still happy to hang out with her after the incidents occurred.  I get the accusations of victim-blaming, but I do find some of that curious.  But I'm done burning cycles on it.

Quote from: Brooding Paladin on June 17, 2022, 01:23:38 AM

Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8

Sooo...that was painful to watch.  For a lot of reasons.  But thanks for posting the link.  My morbid fascination dictated I watch the whole thing and it's 45 minutes I'll never get back.  I doubt anyone's minds were changed.  People were either already pulling for her or urging her to disappear from the scene (after making amends to the unpaid).

I'm in the latter camp, but she did note that many of the accusers that have come forward were still happy to hang out with her after the incidents occurred.  I get the accusations of victim-blaming, but I do find some of that curious.  But I'm done burning cycles on it.

I just want the idea of Exclusive D&D Celebrities to die.  If it's a byproduct of this, good.  I'm sorry for the people she and her husband inflicted their quite frankly fucked up mental issues on, though.

Quote from: BrokenCounsel on June 14, 2022, 08:14:39 AM
What are odds that they'll live stream their divorce at Gencon?

That made me spit soda water out my nose. Odds are looking pretty good.

Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8

If that is an example of her sincerity, then the rubes taken in by her crap deserve to be victimized. All you thirsty dudes and dudettes out there need to toughen up so that you don't get conned so easily.

Quote from: jeff37923 on June 17, 2022, 06:32:30 AM

Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8

If that is an example of her sincerity, then the rubes taken in by her crap deserve to be victimized. All you thirsty dudes and dudettes out there need to toughen up so that you don't get conned so easily.

Agreed and seconded .

Your post made me think of a anti-Wotc slogan.

Don't get conned by the Gen-con.

Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 02:31:39 AM
I just want the idea of Exclusive D&D Celebrities to die.

Yes. And D&D "personalities" in general should go away too.

Is D&D's popularity good for the hobby as a whole, arguably yes.

But the hype people, influencers, drama artists, and other fakers that follow the popularity of D&D can fuck right off. If all the internet-famous dungeon masters disappeared tomorrow, it would be a net positive.

Quote from: rytrasmi on June 17, 2022, 09:23:35 AM

Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 02:31:39 AM
I just want the idea of Exclusive D&D Celebrities to die.

Yes. And D&D "personalities" in general should go away too.

Is D&D's popularity good for the hobby as a whole, arguably yes.

But the hype people, influencers, drama artists, and other fakers that follow the popularity of D&D can fuck right off. If all the internet-famous dungeon masters disappeared tomorrow, it would be a net positive.

It's been fun watching the sjdubs twist on this one. Like, how can we attack Satine? She's a woman, sex-worker, rpg player. But it looks like they've firmly put her into the persona non grata. LOL

What I've learned from this is that the "TTRPG community" is a sewer and I'm glad I'm not part of it.

Greetings!

What the hell are these "D&D Celebrities" celebrated for? And by whom?

I have never heard of any of them. More pointedly, I have never heard of *any* of the D&D game products they have written or created.

James Raggi of LOTFP I know of. Kobold Press. Frog God Games. Baizu. And, of course, WOTC.

Even some of the smaller talents--whether Pundit, Zak, Venger, Melan, the Yon Suin book, (I think)--have all made interesting and good contributions that are highlighted for quality and solid creativity.

Who the fuck are these other people that are talked about? They sound like nobodies to me.

As for the Interwebs fame, I know well of WEB DM, The Dungeon Dudes, Dungeoncraft by Professor Dungeon Master, the gang at Legion of Myth, and a few others. These content creators actually create content, play D&D, and engage in extensive commentary and discussion about D&D. Strange how if someone was to be hailed as a "celebrity' it would be someone like them--but I never hear of them mentioned or even considered as being "D&D Celebrities". In truth, they all seem far too grounded and unpretentious so as to prefer to eschew any such dubious accolade from anyone, which I can certainly appreciate. This group is definitely not about "celebrity" but about gaming and D&D.

This Satine Phoenix girl sounds like a fucking trainwreck, just like all of her friends and everyone else who hangs out with her. Her husband? *Laughing* Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, too.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: mightybrain on June 17, 2022, 12:52:05 PM
What I've learned from this is that the "TTRPG community" is a sewer and I'm glad I'm not part of it.

Now you know how I feel about THE OSR.  This is THE OSR writ large.  Nobodies, being experts in nothing, appearing out of nowhere, claiming to be lords and kings over everything...when all I wanted to do was be left alone to play 1e AD&D.  If I'd known it'd have led to that, I wouldn't have been so vociferous about pushing a revival of old school when nobody else was in the late 90s/early 2000s. 

To me, there's really only been a few actual 'celebrities' involved with RPGs. And usually those are guys who were either founders, or branched out and made their name in other ways.

Larry Elmore, Michael Stackpole, and Gary Gygax are the only three that spring to mind immediately for me.