https://www.thefandomentals.com/bullying-blacklisting-satine-phoenix-jamison-stone/?fbclid=IwAR1P2xvMaC0rXYjPlz0tu-pooGdsHQMwVO3EdrR-mga9jH34duIN3xpm11U
This seems like prime Pundit material - no thread yet?
I've been on this for a few days; every time I think "Wow, what a ride that was..." someone else comes forward with a horror story about them. There is no bottom, The Ride Never Ends.
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 13, 2022, 03:52:34 PM
I've been on this for a few days; every time I think "Wow, what a ride that was..." someone else comes forward with a horror story about them. There is no bottom, The Ride Never Ends.
The sheer amount of shaudenfraude about this whole event is astounding. The SJW's are eating a sex worker alive and shunning her Scarlet Letter style.
My dumptruck full of popcorn has almost run out.
let's not forget PHB is already running roughshod over them in thier comments sections. That site hatest successful people in the RPG industry. For all Satine's success she's about to burn like the proverbial bird her porn name is based on sans the rising part.
Not knowing much beyond the story I just read....just looking at their pictures, who is surprised? A pair of self absorbed attention whores act shitty to people? Call me shocked. One thing I can say, I have never felt threatened or bullied at work, and if you do feel that way, stand up for yourself and get another job if the offender won't back off.
Pundit already did a short video on this: Whatever this is, it's not the RPG hobby
He's right. This nonsense has nothing to do with RPG's in any way.
Freaky theater kids getting into a mess with other freaky theater kids.
In other news: Water is Wet.
And now on to the weather...
Quote from: Jaeger on June 13, 2022, 04:37:05 PM
He's right. This nonsense has nothing to do with RPG's in any way.
Freaky theater kids getting into a mess with other freaky theater kids.
In other news: Water is Wet.
This seems like a sensible take.
I would normally stay out of things like this, but I actually own the digital version of an RPG that Satine illustrated for. Machinations of a Space Princess.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/116412 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/116412)
And it's good. Yup, a good RPG.
Now, it's got nothing to do with Stone. It's written by "Grim Jim" James Desborough, somebody that RPG Pundit knows pretty well.
In this context the important bit would be Satine's art. It's also good. Maybe not more complex than comic book panel art, but better than I can draw.
That's all I know.
It's been a long time coming and this is nowhere near the end of the rabbit hole. Everyone who knows anybody of import in the industry knows these two, their entire social circle, and their stan-dom are PURE UNADULTERATED cancer without an ounce of talent, discretion, professionalism, respect, or sincerity to their name between them.
Their entire social circle clique has been quietly yet openly acting like this whenever a camera is not on them, and I'm not even JUST talking about their higher-rung employees but also their various friends who have wormed their way into all manner of other TTRPG companies.
I'm just waiting for more receipts to drop that implicate their entire social circle because they have all been 100% complicit in this and behave in a similar fashion and have been running a kind of whisper network that is used to defame people any of them have decided they don't like or who fail to appeal to the biggest and most bloated egos in the room. There are undoubtedly hundreds of people who have seen and been subject to this kind of treatment from the circles these two run in, and frankly, I cannot wait for the consequences to ripple out and ruin the careers of some of these most shitty fuckheads who, unlike Jameson and Phoenix, do NOT have generational wealth to live out the rest of their days in comfort.
I admit to enjoying this all a little too much as well. I've read it all and it all confirms my misgivings. This kind of "cult of personality" tends to end this way. I've seen some of her other "contributions" to RPGs and was left totally unimpressed so I was kind of waiting for the bubble to burst. Him I don't know at all but he struck me as the same kind of empty shirt.
Now some are making excuses for her like, "maybe she's a victim too and he manipulated her" but that's not what the receipts are saying. I'm in my popcorn dump truck, too, waiting to see how they rally to try to protect her 'brand.' I'm guessing WOTC is giving some free guidance on all that since she's their spokespornstar. He's already looking done and they appear to be rallying to save the revenue stream in her. Ain't looking good.
I'm starting to wonder if she, too, might buy the whole, "maybe I WAS manipulated" and, if so, how long before he's kicked to the curb. I know they're newly married but if the ship goes all the way down they'd have to get real jobs in the real world, perish the thought.
I still can't get over how people elevate these types and make them into minor DM celebs. When 'yes men' surround you one tends to lose perspective of oneself.
That said, I thank them both for keeping me belly laughing at their whole demise.
Everyone is a drama queen online, and I have no idea what the truth is when it comes to social media receipts.
Like my other hobby, I look at Roleplaying games as a hobby. Hobbies cost me money. I see this as luxury, and I like my luxuries. I choose my indulgences.
Once something becomes a significant source of income, then it can become grubby and proletarian, and it'll kill your love if you let it. Money can poison any relationship.
(some people dream of making hobbies into professions, and I find that sad in most cases)
As a hobbyist, I'm beholden to no masters, and I like it that way. I owe nothing, and this gives me joy.
I'm also familiar with the name Satine Phoenix through Machinations of the Space Princess, and the rest seems like the usual internet drama.
Was she part of Zak S's crew? I think I remember her name mentioned in the Vornheim book.
Nothing really horrific happened. Just the usual behavior one sees from dentists and lawyers that try to avoid paying fees for services rendered.
Quote from: Crusader X on June 13, 2022, 09:58:03 PM
Was she part of Zak S's crew? I think I remember her name mentioned in the Vornheim book.
Yes, Satine was previously an adult entertainer who played D&D with Zak S. She then became one of the stars on The Escapist's I Hit It With My Axe show. She springboarded from that into celebrity dungeonmastering and eventually joined WOTC alongside a couple of former Escapist colleagues as a community manager before launching her current biz. I was the executive producer of IHIWMA. She was absolutely lovely to work with. The descriptions of her online behavior certainly don't match my anecdotal experiences with her at all.
Quote from: amacris on June 14, 2022, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: Crusader X on June 13, 2022, 09:58:03 PM
Was she part of Zak S's crew? I think I remember her name mentioned in the Vornheim book.
Yes, Satine was previously an adult entertainer who played D&D with Zak S. She then became one of the stars on The Escapist's I Hit It With My Axe show. She springboarded from that into celebrity dungeonmastering and eventually joined WOTC alongside a couple of former Escapist colleagues as a community manager before launching her current biz. I was the executive producer of IHIWMA. She was absolutely lovely to work with. The descriptions of her online behavior certainly don't match my anecdotal experiences with her at all.
I really don't want to white knight for Satine, but the serious allegations do seem to be against her hubby. I do think all these people should receive less attention though - whether from yourself or from WotC, I think corporations should exercise a bit more discretion. Danger Hair is called that for a reason! ;D
Why is it that the current version of D&D seems to be a poison pill for these fuckers to initiate their career self-destruct? Is it the toxic social environment that surrounds D&D "celebrity"?
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 14, 2022, 05:51:44 AM
Why is it that the current version of D&D seems to be a poison pill for these fuckers to initiate their career self-destruct? Is it the toxic social environment that surrounds D&D "celebrity"?
I think anyone that tries so hard to be "important" or a "celebrity" tends to have flaws along with that drive that trend towards extreme self centered behavior. IF they were boxers it might not matter as much, but since they are decent looking fit people hanging around nerds I think they run into WAY too many people they can bully and manipulate and get away with it. All chickens eventually come home to roost, and I think people who are a little too sociopathic sooner or later run out of runway for their take off. I am not as certain it is D&D as it is the ease of which a person can work towards "celebrity" thanks to the internet. No internet video and such, no one ever knows who these two are. I think the current version of D&D just happens to be the one with easy internet celebrity hood attached.
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 14, 2022, 05:51:44 AM
Why is it that the current version of D&D seems to be a poison pill for these fuckers to initiate their career self-destruct? Is it the toxic social environment that surrounds D&D "celebrity"?
It has nothing to do with the current version of D&D other than it being the version out right now. If WotC put out a new version tomorrow, the shit wouldn't stick to 5e but would instead drip onto whatever the new hotness they are pushing.
Found this link on Tenkar's vid it's a list of alleged horror stories from the 'celebrity' couple.
https://www.studlystone.com/
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Getting robbed is one thing, but the majority of complaints I see are they dealt with shitty people/the job sucked. I think a few weeks of being a laborer on a brick laying crew would do a shitload for those people's perspective.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:16:44 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Getting robbed is one thing, but the majority of complaints I see are they dealt with shitty people/the job sucked. I think a few weeks of being a laborer on a brick laying crew would do a shitload for those people's perspective.
Yeah, but it's 2022 man we've got to all 'do better'.
The funny thing is if you're being treated badly by someone just leave. Or get another job. A lot of these stories are, 'they were mean to me, but I didn't want to say anything because other people from the community might not like me anymore'. And coming out years after the fact.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Thats one of the sketchy parts of this whole drama saga: when do people get paid
Now i read on one of the discord screenshots that folks were asking to be paid BEFORE their edits and changes were approved. Just by turning in your draft doesnt mean you get paid then and there. Contracts and terms do exist for a reason and you dont get paid for garbage, unusable ,gibberish text. Not paying people post edit and after requesting an invoice? Scummy
That part these folk have to understand you are writing RPG material not to get rich but because you enjoy doing the work and seeing the result.
The internet is making this molehill into a mountain. At least bring us more popcorn.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on June 14, 2022, 07:34:17 AM
Thats one of the sketchy parts of this whole drama saga: when do people get paid
That's definitely my main issue... I can't speak from a writer's perspective. But in terms of art, I won't scratch my ball sack without getting at least 50% upfront. Because if you get shafted then at least you've got something for it.
Of course, if anything goes wrong and the client doesn't pay in full (for whatever reason), you tell all your mates and the word gets around. I'd never go on Twatter and cry like a thirteen-year-old, but that's just me.
But please keep up the pop corn. ;D
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:16:44 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Getting robbed is one thing, but the majority of complaints I see are they dealt with shitty people/the job sucked. I think a few weeks of being a laborer on a brick laying crew would do a shitload for those people's perspective.
Yeah, but it's 2022 man we've got to all 'do better'.
The funny thing is if you're being treated badly by someone just leave. Or get another job. A lot of these stories are, 'they were mean to me, but I didn't want to say anything because other people from the community might not like me anymore'. And coming out years after the fact.
Dead on. I just do not get the internet complaints. When I first heard about this, I thought I would be reading a story where they drugged and raped people in a torture dungeon. It seems they were just assholes. Do kids today never encounter an asshole growing up?
What are odds that they'll live stream their divorce at Gencon?
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:56:12 AM
Dead on. I just do not get the internet complaints. When I first heard about this, I thought I would be reading a story where they drugged and raped people in a torture dungeon. It seems they were just assholes. Do kids today never encounter an asshole growing up?
No they don't as that entire generation is raised on participation trophies, social media, and "EVERYONE IS A WINNER!" mentality. Good times create weak people.
QuoteWhat are odds that they'll live stream their divorce at Gencon?
0 as Stone will be banned from the Gencon property due to "Threats of Violence" or "Security for Guests" same excuse they banned The Quartering and other for: Wrong Think.
I'll put money they won't get divorced, the redemption arc is too profitable to pass up and they can sell their "Recovery" to others. Divorce lets the vipers feast further, there's money to made in Hearts and Tears.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:16:44 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Getting robbed is one thing, but the majority of complaints I see are they dealt with shitty people/the job sucked. I think a few weeks of being a laborer on a brick laying crew would do a shitload for those people's perspective.
Yeah, but it's 2022 man we've got to all 'do better'.
The funny thing is if you're being treated badly by someone just leave. Or get another job. A lot of these stories are, 'they were mean to me, but I didn't want to say anything because other people from the community might not like me anymore'. And coming out years after the fact.
So it's just more high school bullshit. Some people never move past it.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:56:12 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:16:44 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Getting robbed is one thing, but the majority of complaints I see are they dealt with shitty people/the job sucked. I think a few weeks of being a laborer on a brick laying crew would do a shitload for those people's perspective.
Yeah, but it's 2022 man we've got to all 'do better'.
The funny thing is if you're being treated badly by someone just leave. Or get another job. A lot of these stories are, 'they were mean to me, but I didn't want to say anything because other people from the community might not like me anymore'. And coming out years after the fact.
Dead on. I just do not get the internet complaints. When I first heard about this, I thought I would be reading a story where they drugged and raped people in a torture dungeon. It seems they were just assholes. Do kids today never encounter an asshole growing up?
Sure they encounter them. And from what I've heard, they eat them these days.
Quote from: HappyDaze on June 14, 2022, 08:38:15 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:56:12 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:16:44 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Getting robbed is one thing, but the majority of complaints I see are they dealt with shitty people/the job sucked. I think a few weeks of being a laborer on a brick laying crew would do a shitload for those people's perspective.
Yeah, but it's 2022 man we've got to all 'do better'.
The funny thing is if you're being treated badly by someone just leave. Or get another job. A lot of these stories are, 'they were mean to me, but I didn't want to say anything because other people from the community might not like me anymore'. And coming out years after the fact.
Dead on. I just do not get the internet complaints. When I first heard about this, I thought I would be reading a story where they drugged and raped people in a torture dungeon. It seems they were just assholes. Do kids today never encounter an asshole growing up?
Sure they encounter them. And from what I've heard, they eat them these days.
Ah, thus the spread of Monkey Pox.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on June 13, 2022, 08:17:45 PM
I admit to enjoying this all a little too much as well.
Not possible.
Quote
I'm starting to wonder if she, too, might buy the whole, "maybe I WAS manipulated" and, if so, how long before he's kicked to the curb. I know they're newly married but if the ship goes all the way down they'd have to get real jobs in the real world, perish the thought.
Oh he's already under the bus and it's in Low-2, and Satine is about to angrily order the driver to take his foot off the clutches. (See what I did there? There's no way she'd be driving.)
But yeah they've taken hits amidship and are taking on water.
Stone's & Phoenix's apologies are priceless on FB. I had to read them from behind the couch. :D
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 11:37:30 AM
Stone's & Phoenix's apologies are priceless on FB. I had to read them from behind the couch. :D
Screen capture and post them for posterity.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 11:37:30 AM
Stone's & Phoenix's apologies are priceless on FB. I had to read them from behind the couch. :D
Classic abuser behavior. "It wasn't me! It was my personality disorder! I'm so sorry you're disappointed in me! Did I mention how much I love you???"
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 14, 2022, 11:41:14 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 11:37:30 AM
Stone's & Phoenix's apologies are priceless on FB. I had to read them from behind the couch. :D
Classic abuser behavior. "It wasn't me! It was my personality disorder! I'm so sorry you're disappointed in me! Did I mention how much I love you???"
"I Hate You! Don't Leave me!" is a fantastic book to read for dealing with partners with BPD. In this case we all fully well know that they are both trotting out the symptathy/pity/therapy card here in hopes of reducing backlash and it's failing miserably after the sheer volume of behavior has come to light.
Both of their Non-Apologies are falling on deaf ears and dopamine adled twitter users who want the +1s and <3 for being Stunning and Brave standing upto "OMG LITERALLY HITLER!"
The best thing that can come of this is both fade from public eye and never be heard from again.
I saw them in the event program for the convention, I didn't know who they were, I still don't really care who they are, and I didn't know anything about this until the convention emailed everyone after the convention ended saying they care about our safety. I still don't care. This reminds me of high school drama.
Quote from: Banjo Destructo on June 14, 2022, 11:54:52 AM
I saw them in the event program for the convention, I didn't know who they were, I still don't really care who they are, and I didn't know anything about this until the convention emailed everyone after the convention ended saying they care about our safety. I still don't care. This reminds me of high school drama.
Because it is as most of these folks still think they are still in HS with the pettiness that circulates around them and their behaviors.
Maybe they can form a support group with Adam Koebel?
Yeah, the whole thing has done nothing but gain momentum. People sleeping on it has only led to more revelations, etc. And now Gen Con has responded to a forum call to, you know, "DO SOMETHING!" and they are saying they're investigating. https://www.gencon.com/forums/87-general-info-2022/topics/17609-satine-phoenix-jamison-stone (https://www.gencon.com/forums/87-general-info-2022/topics/17609-satine-phoenix-jamison-stone)
Pretty sure that's only going to go one way. And now we're talking real $'s to them since one of her talks was for $100/ticket and to play in her game it was $200/ticket. I'm pretty sure, judging by the Twitter Hate Train this is only going to have one outcome, but I hope it's a slow one as I'm having too much fun with it. I know; issues.
Interesting to me was the next to last line in the comicbooks.com article: "Wizards of the Coast declined to comment for this story." I'm guessing there's a meeting going on somewhere in those halls right now.
Meanwhile, in the Legion of Doom, I mean WoTC HQ.
The hell with all of them..both Satine and Stone plus all the bedwetters who have found the collective fortitude to finally speak up.
They all deserve each other, and honestly I take zero pleasure in any of this. It isn't entertaining when the social justice mob attacks, and I cannot bring myself to celebrate it, even if it is a couple of zeroes on the other side. Losers, all of them.
Who am I supposed to hate out of all of this?
The rpg.net A-Game thread is like 22, 23 pages now?
I guess Magpie Games is tied up in this via Satine Phoenix, and they're a pretty woke-azz company (in the RED category on the list), so I guess it's a firing for her since she's got the scarlet letter on her sleeve now.
What a sh!tshow. Another circle jerk of hate.
"Internet douchebags are douchey" is not a revelation that requires fifty thousand words of outrage.
Average human beings got elevated to a status they were certainly not worthy of; they became arrogant and condescending, treated people like shit, got called out for doing so, and then their careers crashed and burned? Ok. I think I understand what happened here.
Quote from: FingerRod on June 14, 2022, 03:49:20 PM
The hell with all of them..both Satine and Stone plus all the bedwetters who have found the collective fortitude to finally speak up.
They all deserve each other, and honestly I take zero pleasure in any of this. It isn't entertaining when the social justice mob attacks, and I cannot bring myself to celebrate it, even if it is a couple of zeroes on the other side. Losers, all of them.
This is fair, and largely how I feel when I'm honest with myself. They're clearly the drama kid rejects that never learned how to cope in the real world and now have a host of acronyms to cover their issues.
But I kinda also like to watch them eat their own. They'll never admit it but 5 minutes ago these same people lauded JS and SP for all the represented and stood for. If they had an ounce of introspection they might be alarmed by what they see.
Have these people done anything noteworthy aside from attempting to be D&D influencers? $200 to sit at her table? What to see some cleavage and pink hair and play in a mediocre session? Barf.
The left eat there own because most of them lack fundamental principles. There is always flexibly in their beliefs, so leading anyone to the gallows can always be legitimized.
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:26:26 PM
Have these people done anything noteworthy aside from attempting to be D&D influencers? $200 to sit at her table? What to see some cleavage and pink hair and play in a mediocre session? Barf.
The left eat there own because most of them lack fundamental principles. There is always flexibly in their beliefs, so leading anyone to the gallows can always be legitimized.
She does porn and D&D. Beyond that she's got talent as an artist of a fashion but only because she did porn did people pay attention to her art.
He worked out and played D&D and turned her from a porn actoress who plays D&D into a Brand
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:26:26 PM
$200 to sit at her table?
Please tell me you're having a laugh with that sum??
Quote from: THE_Leopold on June 14, 2022, 08:29:12 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:26:26 PM
Have these people done anything noteworthy aside from attempting to be D&D influencers? $200 to sit at her table? What to see some cleavage and pink hair and play in a mediocre session? Barf.
The left eat there own because most of them lack fundamental principles. There is always flexibly in their beliefs, so leading anyone to the gallows can always be legitimized.
She does porn and D&D. Beyond that she's got talent as an artist of a fashion but only because she did porn did people pay attention to her art.
He worked out and played D&D and turned her from a porn actoress who plays D&D into a Brand
Ah porn...the zone for degenerates and a tool that has probably done as much damage to young men in the USA as fatherless homes. Not a huge shock she was previously "loved" and lauded. I am not a puritan...but if a woman does porn...she is fucked up (guys too actually) and is pretty much the reddest flag I could imagine with a person.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:26:26 PM
$200 to sit at her table?
Please tell me you're having a laugh with that sum??
I read it somewhere and have now found the source:
http://gencon.eventdb.us/groupCompany.php?Group=Satine+Phoenix
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:26:26 PM
$200 to sit at her table?
Please tell me you're having a laugh with that sum??
I read it somewhere and have now found the source:
http://gencon.eventdb.us/groupCompany.php?Group=Satine+Phoenix
Well, Only fans has created a business model. I do wonder what sort of stalker vibes she draws by combining those things (porn and then allowing people to pay to be around her, even if in a table top RPG).
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:26:26 PM
$200 to sit at her table?
Please tell me you're having a laugh with that sum??
I read it somewhere and have now found the source:
http://gencon.eventdb.us/groupCompany.php?Group=Satine+Phoenix
Holy shit!! What utter spaz would pay that to sit at a D&D table?
Like I said, we really need a vomit emoji here.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 08:40:48 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 14, 2022, 08:26:26 PM
$200 to sit at her table?
Please tell me you're having a laugh with that sum??
I read it somewhere and have now found the source:
http://gencon.eventdb.us/groupCompany.php?Group=Satine+Phoenix
Holy shit!! What utter spaz would pay that to sit at a D&D table?
Like I said, we really need a vomit emoji here.
I imagine the worst kind. Like the kind that ends up cutting her into pieces and putting her in trash bags. Fucking dangerous, big time IMO combined with her other internet presence.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 08:42:05 PM
I imagine the worst kind.
Indeed and the more retarded. I mean 200 fuckin' squid!! To sit at a mediocre GM's table. LOOOOL
That said she referred to herself as a 'community leader' in her apology. So that makes you 'special' I suppose even if you give yourself the title.
The only real moral is: "D&D should have been gatekept better." ;)
Quote from: Melan on June 15, 2022, 04:49:31 AM
The only real moral is: "D&D should have been gatekept better." ;)
You know...it looks like they modeled their behavior off of the DM's from the Chick Trax that were going around (cultish, dramatic and demeaning). It would be awesome if it came out they were having their players wearing hooded robes meet in some basement somewhere changing in a pentagram making diabolic deals.
I might pay $200 for charity if someone I was really interested in was running it.
Correia, Stackpole, heck, if the charity was right I'd even suffer through Mercer.
But I'm not putting $200 into someone's pocket for the 'privilege' of playing in their game. Fuck that noise.
Quote from: Melan on June 15, 2022, 04:49:31 AM
The only real moral is: "D&D should have been gatekept better." ;)
D&D has been a credible gatekeeper for the hobby because most of the shitty wokesters stay with it instead of trying the other, better games in the hobby.
She's managed to turn it into yet another appearance opportunity as she has announced she will address these things on an Instagram Live feed tomorrow at 4pm PST.
Best thing that could happen would be for absolutely no one to show up.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on June 15, 2022, 01:04:00 PM
She's managed to turn it into yet another appearance opportunity as she has announced she will address these things on an Instagram Live feed tomorrow at 4pm PST.
Best thing that could happen would be for absolutely no one to show up.
I wonder if she's banned from Twitch due to her companies poor treatment of contractors and staff.
Also, there's a "live" function on instagram apparently.
Quote from: amacris on June 14, 2022, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: Crusader X on June 13, 2022, 09:58:03 PM
Was she part of Zak S's crew? I think I remember her name mentioned in the Vornheim book.
Yes, Satine was previously an adult entertainer who played D&D with Zak S. She then became one of the stars on The Escapist's I Hit It With My Axe show. She springboarded from that into celebrity dungeonmastering and eventually joined WOTC alongside a couple of former Escapist colleagues as a community manager before launching her current biz. I was the executive producer of IHIWMA. She was absolutely lovely to work with. The descriptions of her online behavior certainly don't match my anecdotal experiences with her at all.
That's the impression I got. She does seem to have a monumentally bad taste in friend groups though.
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 15, 2022, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: Melan on June 15, 2022, 04:49:31 AM
The only real moral is: "D&D should have been gatekept better." ;)
D&D has been a credible gatekeeper for the hobby because most of the shitty wokesters stay with it instead of trying the other, better games in the hobby.
Good observation. If you're actually interested in the hobby, and not the fluff surrounding it, you'll move on to better games.
TBH, I'm not going to criticize her (or anyone) for working in the adult entertainment industry.
But not paying freelancers (and other alleged monetary anomalies) is exceedingly poor form. I say this as a freelance artist and I've experienced being ripped off.
And paying by the word for writers seems a bit penny-pinching too.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
TBH, I'm not going to criticize her (or anyone) for working in the adult entertainment industry.
But not paying freelancers (and other alleged monetary anomalies) is exceedingly poor form. I say this as a freelance artist and I've experienced being ripped off.
And paying by the word for writers seems a bit penny-pinching too.
Thing is....do we know for certain they violated agreements with regard to payment? I see lots of allegations about contract disputes and talking mean, but it does seem like there would a law suit or at least an attempt to seek a judgement if they were outright not paying people.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 15, 2022, 07:35:19 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
TBH, I'm not going to criticize her (or anyone) for working in the adult entertainment industry.
But not paying freelancers (and other alleged monetary anomalies) is exceedingly poor form. I say this as a freelance artist and I've experienced being ripped off.
And paying by the word for writers seems a bit penny-pinching too.
Thing is....do we know for certain they violated agreements with regard to payment? I see lots of allegations about contract disputes and talking mean, but it does seem like there would a law suit or at least an attempt to seek a judgement if they were outright not paying people.
Yeah, these are all 'alleged' incidents. Because technically you'd have to prove whether you got paid or not in a labor court (or some such equivalent).
But one further point I'd say on freelancer pay. Unless it's a large amount of cash it's not really worth the hassle of going through the court system. As you'll end up with nout' after a lawyer's fee. But if it's a large sum then absolutely sue the shit out of them.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:41:03 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 15, 2022, 07:35:19 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
TBH, I'm not going to criticize her (or anyone) for working in the adult entertainment industry.
But not paying freelancers (and other alleged monetary anomalies) is exceedingly poor form. I say this as a freelance artist and I've experienced being ripped off.
And paying by the word for writers seems a bit penny-pinching too.
Thing is....do we know for certain they violated agreements with regard to payment? I see lots of allegations about contract disputes and talking mean, but it does seem like there would a law suit or at least an attempt to seek a judgement if they were outright not paying people.
Yeah, these are all 'alleged' incidents. Because technically you'd have to prove whether you got paid or not in a labor court (or some such equivalent).
But one further point I'd say on freelancer pay. Unless it's a large amount of cash it's not really worth the hassle of going through the court system. As you'll end up with nout' after a lawyer's fee. But if it's a large sum then absolutely sue the shit out of them.
In the USA (in many states) you can file a small claim, without really needing a lawyer as so long as the amount is under a specific sum, a judge will take a look at it. If nothing else, they could post copies of actual agreements if they wanted to make sure their claims have some backing past a conversation. I do not doubt these two could have manipulated people with their "fame" and said later the people "misunderstood"...but if you are taking on contract work...with no contract...well....
Quote from: oggsmash on June 15, 2022, 07:47:08 PM
but if you are taking on contract work...with no contract...well....
That's very true... No contract you've got yourself a problem.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 15, 2022, 07:47:08 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:41:03 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 15, 2022, 07:35:19 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
TBH, I'm not going to criticize her (or anyone) for working in the adult entertainment industry.
But not paying freelancers (and other alleged monetary anomalies) is exceedingly poor form. I say this as a freelance artist and I've experienced being ripped off.
And paying by the word for writers seems a bit penny-pinching too.
Thing is....do we know for certain they violated agreements with regard to payment? I see lots of allegations about contract disputes and talking mean, but it does seem like there would a law suit or at least an attempt to seek a judgement if they were outright not paying people.
Yeah, these are all 'alleged' incidents. Because technically you'd have to prove whether you got paid or not in a labor court (or some such equivalent).
But one further point I'd say on freelancer pay. Unless it's a large amount of cash it's not really worth the hassle of going through the court system. As you'll end up with nout' after a lawyer's fee. But if it's a large sum then absolutely sue the shit out of them.
In the USA (in many states) you can file a small claim, without really needing a lawyer as so long as the amount is under a specific sum, a judge will take a look at it. If nothing else, they could post copies of actual agreements if they wanted to make sure their claims have some backing past a conversation. I do not doubt these two could have manipulated people with their "fame" and said later the people "misunderstood"...but if you are taking on contract work...with no contract...well....
Once upon a time a man's word was a contract, and even then there were conartists.
Ok i had never heard of this satine woman before. I am not into DnD or WoD style games so maybe that's why.
Anyhooo, I looked her up and basically saw she was a former porn star, (I have no problem with that, and respect some of them.) who is now slightly famous in some game circles.
Didn't really feel like making a study of this drama, saw some stuff about tattoos, employee abuse and cheating, etc.
All I want to know is did she and/or her SO actually create any significant game material to any degree or were they just basically hot looking people creating a brand while others did the actual work of making game material?
I'm mildly curious but not realy enough to Wade thru the drama around this case.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:41:03 PMYeah, these are all 'alleged' incidents.
Alleged by some people in a very toxic community. It's not the first time they've gone after Satine. The mistake was to apologise. That just starts a feeding frenzy.
Quote from: Jam The MF on June 14, 2022, 05:57:11 PM
Average human beings got elevated to a status they were certainly not worthy of; they became arrogant and condescending, treated people like shit, got called out for doing so, and then their careers crashed and burned? Ok. I think I understand what happened here.
Below average I think. I get the impression she's low-average and he's well below average, but maybe that's my male white knighting impetus.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on June 14, 2022, 11:52:18 AM
"I Hate You! Don't Leave me!" is a fantastic book to read for dealing with partners with BPD.
I had a gf with severe BPD. "I Hate You! Don't Leave me!" describes her behaviour EXACTLY. When I pushed her out the door she was both 'leaving me' and trying to have sex with me AT THE SAME TIME - I recall her complaining that my refusal to have 'break up sex' with her meant I was 'not a real man' :D
As for Satine Phoenix, I just think WoTC's 'Gamma males' should have done a lot more due diligence before hiring her. But I take Amacris' point that she comes across pleasant enough. It's not like eg Jessica Price where you're obviously putting a piranha in your pool.
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 15, 2022, 10:31:03 PM
All I want to know is did she and/or her SO actually create any significant game material to any degree or were they just basically hot looking people creating a brand while others did the actual work of making game material?
I'm mildly curious but not realy enough to Wade thru the drama around this case.
The answer is "not a lot." They were more the hood ornaments while others ran around being the engine. She was more on the speaking tour segment, doing podcasts, actual plays, and youtubes after being a Community Manager for WOTC. At a minimum she seemed expert in creating a cult of personality around her. In terms of her output, from my experience at least (not like I've read everything she's ever done), her content contributions are pedestrian at best.
He started Apotheosis Studios which intended to publish. Previously, he was a self-published novelist (sci-fi, I think) and has a book or two to his name. In terms of their overall contributions to published material, it was just starting to happen. I think they put out The Red Opera but the Sirens: Battle of the Bards looked to be "their" best effort yet. Only it was mostly an assembled band of freelancers that they abused, didn't pay, and claimed their work was so poor they had to fix everything.
The most I know about Satine besides her community role was that she was the cover model for Troll Lord Games' 5E version of Amazing Adventures.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 15, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
TBH, I'm not going to criticize her (or anyone) for working in the adult entertainment industry.
But not paying freelancers (and other alleged monetary anomalies) is exceedingly poor form. I say this as a freelance artist and I've experienced being ripped off.
And paying by the word for writers seems a bit penny-pinching too.
Paying by the word seems to be the standard in the freelance community for writers. It's shitty but there aren't many companies like LotFP who profit share with the writers.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on June 14, 2022, 07:34:17 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 14, 2022, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 14, 2022, 07:05:04 AM
I think all these people with their horror stories should go work for a few weeks on a construction site. I think that might help them with perspective.
Well, that's the thing... If you work in the 'real world' and you get screwed over you learn and just deal with it. The people I've real sympathy for here are the freelancers who did the work and never got a penny (allegedly).
Thats one of the sketchy parts of this whole drama saga: when do people get paid
Now i read on one of the discord screenshots that folks were asking to be paid BEFORE their edits and changes were approved. Just by turning in your draft doesnt mean you get paid then and there. Contracts and terms do exist for a reason and you dont get paid for garbage, unusable ,gibberish text. Not paying people post edit and after requesting an invoice? Scummy
That part these folk have to understand you are writing RPG material not to get rich but because you enjoy doing the work and seeing the result.
The internet is making this molehill into a mountain. At least bring us more popcorn.
I've represented as an attorney some people in the RPG field. And paying late was not uncommon. But as an attorney, who felt it was enjoyable to do work in the RPG industry, I just let it go. Everyone was polite about it and upfront. They didn't make promises they couldn't keep and let me know they were going to be late, and what had happened, and I always was eventually paid. Sometimes I even got sample products as a thank you for accepting the delay in payment.
Doing that with artists (writers, editors, illustrators, map makers, etc.) seems a lot more rude though. Creators know other creators are working on a far more thin budget than an attorney.
Satine Phoenix, is a Hype person. Hey, this is awesome!!! Look how awesome this is!!! She knows how to put on a fake smile, and hype stuff up. That's the game she plays.
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8
Sooo...that was painful to watch. For a lot of reasons. But thanks for posting the link. My morbid fascination dictated I watch the whole thing and it's 45 minutes I'll never get back. I doubt anyone's minds were changed. People were either already pulling for her or urging her to disappear from the scene (after making amends to the unpaid).
I'm in the latter camp, but she did note that many of the accusers that have come forward were still happy to hang out with her after the incidents occurred. I get the accusations of victim-blaming, but I do find some of that curious. But I'm done burning cycles on it.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on June 17, 2022, 01:23:38 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8
Sooo...that was painful to watch. For a lot of reasons. But thanks for posting the link. My morbid fascination dictated I watch the whole thing and it's 45 minutes I'll never get back. I doubt anyone's minds were changed. People were either already pulling for her or urging her to disappear from the scene (after making amends to the unpaid).
I'm in the latter camp, but she did note that many of the accusers that have come forward were still happy to hang out with her after the incidents occurred. I get the accusations of victim-blaming, but I do find some of that curious. But I'm done burning cycles on it.
I just want the idea of Exclusive D&D Celebrities to die. If it's a byproduct of this, good. I'm sorry for the people she and her husband inflicted their quite frankly fucked up mental issues on, though.
Quote from: BrokenCounsel on June 14, 2022, 08:14:39 AM
What are odds that they'll live stream their divorce at Gencon?
That made me spit soda water out my nose. Odds are looking pretty good.
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8
If that is an example of her sincerity, then the rubes taken in by her crap deserve to be victimized. All you thirsty dudes and dudettes out there need to toughen up so that you don't get conned so easily.
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 17, 2022, 06:32:30 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 12:14:14 AM
Here's her apology video someone grabbed, if anyone cares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxS_ImK-OP8
If that is an example of her sincerity, then the rubes taken in by her crap deserve to be victimized. All you thirsty dudes and dudettes out there need to toughen up so that you don't get conned so easily.
Agreed and seconded .
Your post made me think of a anti-Wotc slogan.
Don't get conned by the Gen-con.
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 02:31:39 AM
I just want the idea of Exclusive D&D Celebrities to die.
Yes. And D&D "personalities" in general should go away too.
Is D&D's popularity good for the hobby as a whole, arguably yes.
But the hype people, influencers, drama artists, and other fakers that follow the popularity of D&D can fuck right off. If all the internet-famous dungeon masters disappeared tomorrow, it would be a net positive.
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 17, 2022, 09:23:35 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 17, 2022, 02:31:39 AM
I just want the idea of Exclusive D&D Celebrities to die.
Yes. And D&D "personalities" in general should go away too.
Is D&D's popularity good for the hobby as a whole, arguably yes.
But the hype people, influencers, drama artists, and other fakers that follow the popularity of D&D can fuck right off. If all the internet-famous dungeon masters disappeared tomorrow, it would be a net positive.
It's been fun watching the sjdubs twist on this one. Like, how can we attack Satine? She's a woman, sex-worker, rpg player. But it looks like they've firmly put her into the persona non grata. LOL
What I've learned from this is that the "TTRPG community" is a sewer and I'm glad I'm not part of it.
Greetings!
What the hell are these "D&D Celebrities" celebrated for? And by whom?
I have never heard of any of them. More pointedly, I have never heard of *any* of the D&D game products they have written or created.
James Raggi of LOTFP I know of. Kobold Press. Frog God Games. Baizu. And, of course, WOTC.
Even some of the smaller talents--whether Pundit, Zak, Venger, Melan, the Yon Suin book, (I think)--have all made interesting and good contributions that are highlighted for quality and solid creativity.
Who the fuck are these other people that are talked about? They sound like nobodies to me.
As for the Interwebs fame, I know well of WEB DM, The Dungeon Dudes, Dungeoncraft by Professor Dungeon Master, the gang at Legion of Myth, and a few others. These content creators actually create content, play D&D, and engage in extensive commentary and discussion about D&D. Strange how if someone was to be hailed as a "celebrity' it would be someone like them--but I never hear of them mentioned or even considered as being "D&D Celebrities". In truth, they all seem far too grounded and unpretentious so as to prefer to eschew any such dubious accolade from anyone, which I can certainly appreciate. This group is definitely not about "celebrity" but about gaming and D&D.
This Satine Phoenix girl sounds like a fucking trainwreck, just like all of her friends and everyone else who hangs out with her. Her husband? *Laughing* Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, too.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: mightybrain on June 17, 2022, 12:52:05 PM
What I've learned from this is that the "TTRPG community" is a sewer and I'm glad I'm not part of it.
Now you know how I feel about THE OSR. This is THE OSR writ large. Nobodies, being experts in nothing, appearing out of nowhere, claiming to be lords and kings over everything...when all I wanted to do was be left alone to play 1e AD&D. If I'd known it'd have led to that, I wouldn't have been so vociferous about pushing a revival of old school when nobody else was in the late 90s/early 2000s.
To me, there's really only been a few actual 'celebrities' involved with RPGs. And usually those are guys who were either founders, or branched out and made their name in other ways.
Larry Elmore, Michael Stackpole, and Gary Gygax are the only three that spring to mind immediately for me.
Politics aside, I can see adding Mike Pondsmith, Eric Wujcik, and John Wick to that list as creative and influential people for me in the RPG hobby.
Quote from: SHARK on June 17, 2022, 12:55:19 PM
Greetings!
What the hell are these "D&D Celebrities" celebrated for? And by whom?
I have never heard of any of them. More pointedly, I have never heard of *any* of the D&D game products they have written or created.
James Raggi of LOTFP I know of. Kobold Press. Frog God Games. Baizu. And, of course, WOTC.
Even some of the smaller talents--whether Pundit, Zak, Venger, Melan, the Yon Suin book, (I think)--have all made interesting and good contributions that are highlighted for quality and solid creativity.
Who the fuck are these other people that are talked about? They sound like nobodies to me.
As for the Interwebs fame, I know well of WEB DM, The Dungeon Dudes, Dungeoncraft by Professor Dungeon Master, the gang at Legion of Myth, and a few others. These content creators actually create content, play D&D, and engage in extensive commentary and discussion about D&D. Strange how if someone was to be hailed as a "celebrity' it would be someone like them--but I never hear of them mentioned or even considered as being "D&D Celebrities". In truth, they all seem far too grounded and unpretentious so as to prefer to eschew any such dubious accolade from anyone, which I can certainly appreciate. This group is definitely not about "celebrity" but about gaming and D&D.
This Satine Phoenix girl sounds like a fucking trainwreck, just like all of her friends and everyone else who hangs out with her. Her husband? *Laughing* Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, too.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings!
What SHARK said.
Semper Facetus,
Zal
Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 17, 2022, 02:11:50 PM
Larry Elmore, Michael Stackpole, and Gary Gygax are the only three that spring to mind immediately for me.
Aaron Allston comes to mind from the second tier, and he might have broken out had he lived longer. :( That's also where I'd place Ken Hite; Ed Greenwood and Tracy Hickman probably qualify a step above them. (Weis started as a fiction editor, so I'm not sure she can count as someone who started in gaming. :) )
Quote from: zircher on June 17, 2022, 03:10:49 PM
Politics aside, I can see adding Mike Pondsmith, Eric Wujcik, and John Wick to that list as creative and influential people for me in the RPG hobby.
The people who've been most influential to me are:
Gary Gygax, David "Zeb" Cook, Frank Mentzer (TSR)
Steve Jackson (SJG)
Greg Gorden (Mayfair)
Greg Costikyan (West End Games)
Mike Pondsmith (R Talsorian)
Jonathan Tweet, Mark Rein-Hagen (Lion Rampant/WW)
Kevin Sembieda and Eric Wujcik (Palladium)
Jordan Weisman (FASA, Heroclix)
Quote from: amacris on June 17, 2022, 10:02:18 PM
Quote from: zircher on June 17, 2022, 03:10:49 PM
Politics aside, I can see adding Mike Pondsmith, Eric Wujcik, and John Wick to that list as creative and influential people for me in the RPG hobby.
The people who've been most influential to me are:
Gary Gygax, David "Zeb" Cook, Frank Mentzer (TSR)
Steve Jackson (SJG)
Greg Gorden (Mayfair)
Greg Costikyan (West End Games)
Mike Pondsmith (R Talsorian)
Jonathan Tweet, Mark Rein-Hagen (Lion Rampant/WW)
Kevin Sembieda and Eric Wujcik (Palladium)
Jordan Weisman (FASA, Heroclix)
That's a solid list.
If I had to put a top 5 for me it would be (in order).
Gygax (obviously)
Mike Pondsmith
Jeff Grubb
Kevin Siembieda
Steve Secchi
(but if I extended it to further, it would look awfully close to yours.)
The problem with these "celebrities" in RPG is that they're so obviously needy of the cult of worship from people I consider hobby-tourists, that they've co-opted the hobby for their own narcissistic ends without contributing much that I find useful or important.
Quote from: amacris on June 17, 2022, 10:02:18 PM
Quote from: zircher on June 17, 2022, 03:10:49 PM
Politics aside, I can see adding Mike Pondsmith, Eric Wujcik, and John Wick to that list as creative and influential people for me in the RPG hobby.
The people who've been most influential to me are:
Gary Gygax, David "Zeb" Cook, Frank Mentzer (TSR)
Steve Jackson (SJG)
Greg Gorden (Mayfair)
Greg Costikyan (West End Games)
Mike Pondsmith (R Talsorian)
Jonathan Tweet, Mark Rein-Hagen (Lion Rampant/WW)
Kevin Sembieda and Eric Wujcik (Palladium)
Jordan Weisman (FASA, Heroclix)
I'd add the GDW crew to that list for myself: Marc Miller et. al.
Same here... let's see.
Gygax, Arneson
Moldvay, Cook, Mentzer
Mike Pondsmith
Steve Jackson
Greg Costikian
Tweet, MRH
I'd probably add Robin Laws. And certainly Greg Stafford. Sandy Petersen. Sean Punch.
I didn't play much palladium or amber, unfortunately.
Quote from: SHARK on June 17, 2022, 12:55:19 PM
Greetings!
What the hell are these "D&D Celebrities" celebrated for? And by whom?
I have never heard of any of them. More pointedly, I have never heard of *any* of the D&D game products they have written or created.
James Raggi of LOTFP I know of. Kobold Press. Frog God Games. Baizu. And, of course, WOTC.
Even some of the smaller talents--whether Pundit, Zak, Venger, Melan, the Yon Suin book, (I think)--have all made interesting and good contributions that are highlighted for quality and solid creativity.
Who the fuck are these other people that are talked about? They sound like nobodies to me.
As for the Interwebs fame, I know well of WEB DM, The Dungeon Dudes, Dungeoncraft by Professor Dungeon Master, the gang at Legion of Myth, and a few others. These content creators actually create content, play D&D, and engage in extensive commentary and discussion about D&D. Strange how if someone was to be hailed as a "celebrity' it would be someone like them--but I never hear of them mentioned or even considered as being "D&D Celebrities". In truth, they all seem far too grounded and unpretentious so as to prefer to eschew any such dubious accolade from anyone, which I can certainly appreciate. This group is definitely not about "celebrity" but about gaming and D&D.
This Satine Phoenix girl sounds like a fucking trainwreck, just like all of her friends and everyone else who hangs out with her. Her husband? *Laughing* Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, too.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Thank you for saying this. I asked the same question on a different board and got crickets. When you opine about the wisdom of hiring an ex porn star to represent a game on the same site there is a lot of reee! Misogyny! But does this person even really know the rules?
Lastly, I appreciate your comments Shark. You have gotten a few genuine laughs out of me for what it is worth. Because pointing out real absurdity is just plain funny sometimes.
To echo you and Pundit: is this even about gaming?
How could I forget Marc Miller and Jeff Grubb? Yes they both need to go on my list.
Greg Stafford, Robin Laws, and Sandy Petersen are all deserving of accolades though not hugely influential on me personally.
I'm not familiar with Steve Secchi, what has his work been on?.
Quote from: amacris on June 18, 2022, 05:14:51 PM
How could I forget Marc Miller and Jeff Grubb? Yes they both need to go on my list.
Greg Stafford, Robin Laws, and Sandy Petersen are all deserving of accolades though not hugely influential on me personally.
I'm not familiar with Steve Secchi, what has his work been on?.
Steve Secchi created Talislanta's system (and setting) - still one of the best designs ever. It still greatly informs my own ideas of game design mechanics. While yes, it still has no Elves, it remains the Red Headed Step-child of TTRPG's and will always be the game everyone says they wish they played but can't convince anyone to play it with them.
Setting aside - the system itself is *ridiculously* good.
Quote from: SHARK on June 17, 2022, 12:55:19 PM
Greetings!
What the hell are these "D&D Celebrities" celebrated for? And by whom?
I have never heard of any of them. More pointedly, I have never heard of *any* of the D&D game products they have written or created.
James Raggi of LOTFP I know of. Kobold Press. Frog God Games. Baizu. And, of course, WOTC.
Even some of the smaller talents--whether Pundit, Zak, Venger, Melan, the Yon Suin book, (I think)--have all made interesting and good contributions that are highlighted for quality and solid creativity.
Who the fuck are these other people that are talked about? They sound like nobodies to me.
As for the Interwebs fame, I know well of WEB DM, The Dungeon Dudes, Dungeoncraft by Professor Dungeon Master, the gang at Legion of Myth, and a few others. These content creators actually create content, play D&D, and engage in extensive commentary and discussion about D&D. Strange how if someone was to be hailed as a "celebrity' it would be someone like them--but I never hear of them mentioned or even considered as being "D&D Celebrities". In truth, they all seem far too grounded and unpretentious so as to prefer to eschew any such dubious accolade from anyone, which I can certainly appreciate. This group is definitely not about "celebrity" but about gaming and D&D.
This Satine Phoenix girl sounds like a fucking trainwreck, just like all of her friends and everyone else who hangs out with her. Her husband? *Laughing* Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, too.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I guess it had to happen.
You posted something I completly agreed with and had to respect you for.
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Since folks here are listing their rpg "celebs" I'll toss Marc Miller's name out there.
Quote from: Zalman on June 17, 2022, 03:13:24 PM
Quote from: SHARK on June 17, 2022, 12:55:19 PM
Greetings!
What the hell are these "D&D Celebrities" celebrated for? And by whom?
I have never heard of any of them. More pointedly, I have never heard of *any* of the D&D game products they have written or created.
James Raggi of LOTFP I know of. Kobold Press. Frog God Games. Baizu. And, of course, WOTC.
Even some of the smaller talents--whether Pundit, Zak, Venger, Melan, the Yon Suin book, (I think)--have all made interesting and good contributions that are highlighted for quality and solid creativity.
Who the fuck are these other people that are talked about? They sound like nobodies to me.
As for the Interwebs fame, I know well of WEB DM, The Dungeon Dudes, Dungeoncraft by Professor Dungeon Master, the gang at Legion of Myth, and a few others. These content creators actually create content, play D&D, and engage in extensive commentary and discussion about D&D. Strange how if someone was to be hailed as a "celebrity' it would be someone like them--but I never hear of them mentioned or even considered as being "D&D Celebrities". In truth, they all seem far too grounded and unpretentious so as to prefer to eschew any such dubious accolade from anyone, which I can certainly appreciate. This group is definitely not about "celebrity" but about gaming and D&D.
This Satine Phoenix girl sounds like a fucking trainwreck, just like all of her friends and everyone else who hangs out with her. Her husband? *Laughing* Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, too.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings!
What SHARK said.
Semper Facetus,
Zal
Greetings!
Thank you, Zal!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
It's really our fault for elevating these nobodies in the first place... If they believe they are rock stars then they start acting like the divas they aren't.
Quote from: Dapig on June 18, 2022, 01:14:02 PM
Quote from: SHARK on June 17, 2022, 12:55:19 PM
Greetings!
What the hell are these "D&D Celebrities" celebrated for? And by whom?
I have never heard of any of them. More pointedly, I have never heard of *any* of the D&D game products they have written or created.
James Raggi of LOTFP I know of. Kobold Press. Frog God Games. Baizu. And, of course, WOTC.
Even some of the smaller talents--whether Pundit, Zak, Venger, Melan, the Yon Suin book, (I think)--have all made interesting and good contributions that are highlighted for quality and solid creativity.
Who the fuck are these other people that are talked about? They sound like nobodies to me.
As for the Interwebs fame, I know well of WEB DM, The Dungeon Dudes, Dungeoncraft by Professor Dungeon Master, the gang at Legion of Myth, and a few others. These content creators actually create content, play D&D, and engage in extensive commentary and discussion about D&D. Strange how if someone was to be hailed as a "celebrity' it would be someone like them--but I never hear of them mentioned or even considered as being "D&D Celebrities". In truth, they all seem far too grounded and unpretentious so as to prefer to eschew any such dubious accolade from anyone, which I can certainly appreciate. This group is definitely not about "celebrity" but about gaming and D&D.
This Satine Phoenix girl sounds like a fucking trainwreck, just like all of her friends and everyone else who hangs out with her. Her husband? *Laughing* Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, too.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Thank you for saying this. I asked the same question on a different board and got crickets. When you opine about the wisdom of hiring an ex porn star to represent a game on the same site there is a lot of reee! Misogyny! But does this person even really know the rules?
Lastly, I appreciate your comments Shark. You have gotten a few genuine laughs out of me for what it is worth. Because pointing out real absurdity is just plain funny sometimes.
To echo you and Pundit: is this even about gaming?
Greetings!
Hi there, Dapig! Thank you, my friend!
Your story about crickets chirping and REEEing about "Misogyny!" at some other site is funny--and sad, too. ;D
Indeed, this whole story here and the fake people involved, do seem so absurd. Lives full of REEEing, drama, and pretentious narcicism, and of course, the gaggle of alternating "Haters!" and done-wrong and cheated business associates, it all sounds like some bad soap-opera. ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: tenbones on June 19, 2022, 05:15:03 AM
Quote from: amacris on June 18, 2022, 05:14:51 PM
How could I forget Marc Miller and Jeff Grubb? Yes they both need to go on my list.
Greg Stafford, Robin Laws, and Sandy Petersen are all deserving of accolades though not hugely influential on me personally.
I'm not familiar with Steve Secchi, what has his work been on?.
Steve Secchi created Talislanta's system (and setting) - still one of the best designs ever. It still greatly informs my own ideas of game design mechanics. While yes, it still has no Elves, it remains the Red Headed Step-child of TTRPG's and will always be the game everyone says they wish they played but can't convince anyone to play it with them.
Setting aside - the system itself is *ridiculously* good.
Greetings!
Hey Tenbones! Yes, I was just naming off the more recent or current people involved in gaming that I know of, in contrast to this other batch of drama queens.
Historically, indeed, you and Amacris have an excellent list of outstanding people. All skilled game designers, writers, game developers, and theory-crafters.
Poor Talislanta. ;D The lost stepchild of games!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 19, 2022, 07:15:13 AM
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Satine's fame comes from having makeup like a TOS era Klingon?
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 19, 2022, 08:00:41 AM
It's really our fault for elevating these nobodies in the first place... If they believe they are rock stars then they start acting like the divas they aren't.
Not gatekeeping harder was a mistake.
Your only requirement for entry into TTRPGs is a desire to play TTRPGs. Also that should be the only currency that will be accepted at the gate. If it's "get rich" "get famous" "be an influencer" "be a community voice" "create a safe space where _____" then anyone who brings that should be told to fuck off.
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 19, 2022, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 19, 2022, 08:00:41 AM
It's really our fault for elevating these nobodies in the first place... If they believe they are rock stars then they start acting like the divas they aren't.
Not gatekeeping harder was a mistake.
Your only requirement for entry into TTRPGs is a desire to play TTRPGs. Also that should be the only currency that will be accepted at the gate. If it's "get rich" "get famous" "be an influencer" "be a community voice" "create a safe space where _____" then anyone who brings that should be told to fuck off.
Very well put. I think you put to words what has been rattling around in my head but couldn't seem to articulate. I'm glad/relieved there are others that feel this way. I don't care what your cause is, what your preferred minority classification is, or what your preferred pronouns are. Let's just play & have fun! Everyone is welcome at the table if they will just shut up and play the game.
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 19, 2022, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 19, 2022, 08:00:41 AM
It's really our fault for elevating these nobodies in the first place... If they believe they are rock stars then they start acting like the divas they aren't.
Not gatekeeping harder was a mistake.
Your only requirement for entry into TTRPGs is a desire to play TTRPGs. Also that should be the only currency that will be accepted at the gate. If it's "get rich" "get famous" "be an influencer" "be a community voice" "create a safe space where _____" then anyone who brings that should be told to fuck off.
Somebody check the temperature in Hell, because I agree with him on this.
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 19, 2022, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 19, 2022, 07:15:13 AM
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Satine's fame comes from having makeup like a TOS era Klingon?
Of fucker pleeeze! The one Klingon woman we saw on TOS would shit more class than thus saltine slunt ever had...
https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.8c548a55cd6eff223bbaa9b1ddfe4081?rik=B9OVyKD7WCdNSw&riu=http%3a%2f%2ftos.trekcore.com%2fgallery%2falbums%2f3x07%2fdayofdove_252.jpg&ehk=1Qc2p3u2UtPUR1ZhPpL0wLoEQJmgqlYdbkfIwSjrnZM%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
Quote from: RandyB on June 18, 2022, 09:57:51 AM
Quote from: amacris on June 17, 2022, 10:02:18 PM
Quote from: zircher on June 17, 2022, 03:10:49 PM
Politics aside, I can see adding Mike Pondsmith, Eric Wujcik, and John Wick to that list as creative and influential people for me in the RPG hobby.
The people who've been most influential to me are:
Gary Gygax, David "Zeb" Cook, Frank Mentzer (TSR)
Steve Jackson (SJG)
Greg Gorden (Mayfair)
Greg Costikyan (West End Games)
Mike Pondsmith (R Talsorian)
Jonathan Tweet, Mark Rein-Hagen (Lion Rampant/WW)
Kevin Sembieda and Eric Wujcik (Palladium)
Jordan Weisman (FASA, Heroclix)
I'd add the GDW crew to that list for myself: Marc Miller et. al.
I'm surprised that Dave Arneson isn't on any of the lists proffered so far.
Quote from: thedungeondelver on June 19, 2022, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on June 19, 2022, 08:00:41 AM
It's really our fault for elevating these nobodies in the first place... If they believe they are rock stars then they start acting like the divas they aren't.
Not gatekeeping harder was a mistake.
Your only requirement for entry into TTRPGs is a desire to play TTRPGs. Also that should be the only currency that will be accepted at the gate. If it's "get rich" "get famous" "be an influencer" "be a community voice" "create a safe space where _____" then anyone who brings that should be told to fuck off.
While the only requirement for entry into playing TTRPGs should be, yeah, desire to play, the requirements to write and market TTRPGs are probably a bit more extensive. Entertainment is littered with franchises where 'fans' got creative input to a greater or lesser extent and caused problems.
Quote from: tenbones on June 19, 2022, 05:15:03 AM
Steve Secchi created Talislanta's system (and setting) - still one of the best designs ever. It still greatly informs my own ideas of game design mechanics. While yes, it still has no Elves, it remains the Red Headed Step-child of TTRPG's and will always be the game everyone says they wish they played but can't convince anyone to play it with them.
Setting aside - the system itself is *ridiculously* good.
What edition of Talislanta would you recommend starting with, particularly if the system is of interest?
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 20, 2022, 08:38:43 AM
Quote from: tenbones on June 19, 2022, 05:15:03 AM
Steve Secchi created Talislanta's system (and setting) - still one of the best designs ever. It still greatly informs my own ideas of game design mechanics. While yes, it still has no Elves, it remains the Red Headed Step-child of TTRPG's and will always be the game everyone says they wish they played but can't convince anyone to play it with them.
Setting aside - the system itself is *ridiculously* good.
What edition of Talislanta would you recommend starting with, particularly if the system is of interest?
Caveat: ALL editions are free (go to Talislanta.com) with the exception of Talislanta: The Savage Lands (which I helped write) which is a prequel and post-apocalyptic and not necessary to enjoy Talislanta (but worth checking out after you sink your teeth in). ALL editions are 98% compatible as they use the same task resolution. The major differences are each editions magic-systems (but are easily plug and play, and technically you can use them all simultaneously if you wanted), and the minor differences are 3e uses class packages, 4e uses static damage values for weapons/attacks. But all of these things are easily convertible.
If you want the Shark-jumping edition to end all Editions - get 4e. Aka The Big Blue Book. Magic here is more complex (effects based).
If you want the slimmest edition that's free wheeling - get 2e. Very OSR-friendly. Skill-based, magic spells are skills.
If you want a alternative version that is slim and easy - get 3e. Hybrid Archetype/skill based. Magic here is unified by effects, but modified by schools. Very easy and flexible system. This is the also the first and only WotC edition.
Quote from: dkabq on June 20, 2022, 07:14:49 AM
Quote from: RandyB on June 18, 2022, 09:57:51 AM
Quote from: amacris on June 17, 2022, 10:02:18 PM
Quote from: zircher on June 17, 2022, 03:10:49 PM
Politics aside, I can see adding Mike Pondsmith, Eric Wujcik, and John Wick to that list as creative and influential people for me in the RPG hobby.
The people who've been most influential to me are:
Gary Gygax, David "Zeb" Cook, Frank Mentzer (TSR)
Steve Jackson (SJG)
Greg Gorden (Mayfair)
Greg Costikyan (West End Games)
Mike Pondsmith (R Talsorian)
Jonathan Tweet, Mark Rein-Hagen (Lion Rampant/WW)
Kevin Sembieda and Eric Wujcik (Palladium)
Jordan Weisman (FASA, Heroclix)
I'd add the GDW crew to that list for myself: Marc Miller et. al.
I'm surprised that Dave Arneson isn't on any of the lists proffered so far.
Arneson for me personally isn't on the list, because while I'm confident his design elements definitely impacted me somewhere, it's such a muddled mess of trying to define where he and Gygax matter most, it simply gets rolled together under "Gygax".
Frankly, I only point to Gygax simply because he's the source. I couldn't extricate his design principles from anything I engage with in the hobby even though I haven't played D&D, specifically, in years. But I will never disavow its impact on me.
The others in that list and in my own, have more direct impact on me both as a GM and when I'm doing my own design work. Jeff Grubb, Zeb Cook and Pondsmith in particular, have been great influences.
"Celebrities" in D&D are laughable at best to me. Great, they found a way to make a dollar off of those I think of as casual fans that have bought into the marketing of D&D as a lifestyle. I'm not one of those people (and if you derive enjoyment from it - great, don't expect me to give a crap). I've gotten precisely zero-value from any modern RPG Celebrities at my table - and that's where it counts.
Quote from: tenbones on June 20, 2022, 10:20:55 AM
Arneson for me personally isn't on the list, because while I'm confident his design elements definitely impacted me somewhere, it's such a muddled mess of trying to define where he and Gygax matter most, it simply gets rolled together under "Gygax".
If you're interested, Peterson does a good job of separating the influences of Arneson and Gygax in
Playing at the World.
Quote from: tenbones on June 20, 2022, 10:11:44 AM
Quote from: rytrasmi on June 20, 2022, 08:38:43 AM
Quote from: tenbones on June 19, 2022, 05:15:03 AM
Steve Secchi created Talislanta's system (and setting) - still one of the best designs ever. It still greatly informs my own ideas of game design mechanics. While yes, it still has no Elves, it remains the Red Headed Step-child of TTRPG's and will always be the game everyone says they wish they played but can't convince anyone to play it with them.
Setting aside - the system itself is *ridiculously* good.
What edition of Talislanta would you recommend starting with, particularly if the system is of interest?
Caveat: ALL editions are free (go to Talislanta.com) with the exception of Talislanta: The Savage Lands (which I helped write) which is a prequel and post-apocalyptic and not necessary to enjoy Talislanta (but worth checking out after you sink your teeth in). ALL editions are 98% compatible as they use the same task resolution. The major differences are each editions magic-systems (but are easily plug and play, and technically you can use them all simultaneously if you wanted), and the minor differences are 3e uses class packages, 4e uses static damage values for weapons/attacks. But all of these things are easily convertible.
If you want the Shark-jumping edition to end all Editions - get 4e. Aka The Big Blue Book. Magic here is more complex (effects based).
If you want the slimmest edition that's free wheeling - get 2e. Very OSR-friendly. Skill-based, magic spells are skills.
If you want a alternative version that is slim and easy - get 3e. Hybrid Archetype/skill based. Magic here is unified by effects, but modified by schools. Very easy and flexible system. This is the also the first and only WotC edition.
Thanks. I'm gonna start with 2e, I think.
Dave Arneson was mentioned. He cobbled together a really cool gaming session / campaign idea. He demonstrated it to Gary Gygax. Gary flipped his lid over what Arneson had demonstrated to him. Gary spun it into a commercial offering, and the rest of the world was introduced to this new gaming. The rest is history.
I'm glad Dave planted a seed. I'm also glad Gary fertilized and watered that seed.
OMGerd!
Who would have imagined that people who look like total freaks would turn out to be...total freaks??
What an unexpected coinkydink!!
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 14, 2022, 05:51:44 AMWhy is it that the current version of D&D seems to be a poison pill for these fuckers to initiate their career self-destruct?
Finally, a reason to be thankful for 5e.
It's probably RPGPundit's fault by his consulting on this edition. His influence on the current edition is why the freakshow is self-destructing!
Quote from: Spinachcat on June 21, 2022, 01:40:28 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 14, 2022, 05:51:44 AMWhy is it that the current version of D&D seems to be a poison pill for these fuckers to initiate their career self-destruct?
Finally, a reason to be thankful for 5e.
It's probably RPGPundit's fault by his consulting on this edition. His influence on the current edition is why the freakshow is self-destructing!
Given his other activities, I suspect that Pundit may have facilitated ... certain introductions ... that account for both the meteoric success of 5E and its gradual absorption by the powers of chaos and ruin. ;)
Quote from: Pat on June 20, 2022, 10:49:26 AM
Quote from: tenbones on June 20, 2022, 10:20:55 AM
Arneson for me personally isn't on the list, because while I'm confident his design elements definitely impacted me somewhere, it's such a muddled mess of trying to define where he and Gygax matter most, it simply gets rolled together under "Gygax".
If you're interested, Peterson does a good job of separating the influences of Arneson and Gygax in Playing at the World.
I really need to finish that book, it's absolutely fascinating.
Another great source of information on Arneson's contributions is the film "The Secrets of Blackmoor," which is a fantastic watch.
QuoteGiven his other activities, I suspect that Pundit may have facilitated ... certain introductions ... that account for both the meteoric success of 5E and its gradual absorption by the powers of chaos and ruin. ;)
When you roll "yes, but" in Mage the Ascencion PBTA edition.
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 19, 2022, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 19, 2022, 07:15:13 AM
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Satine's fame comes from having makeup like a TOS era Klingon?
If you do an adequate search on the interwebs, you'll find most of her seminal work on Pornhub...
Quote from: 3catcircus on July 04, 2022, 02:01:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 19, 2022, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 19, 2022, 07:15:13 AM
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Satine's fame comes from having makeup like a TOS era Klingon?
If you do an adequate search on the interwebs, you'll find most of her seminal work on Pornhub...
I see what you did there....
Quote from: jeff37923 on July 05, 2022, 05:17:43 AM
Quote from: 3catcircus on July 04, 2022, 02:01:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 19, 2022, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 19, 2022, 07:15:13 AM
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Satine's fame comes from having makeup like a TOS era Klingon?
If you do an adequate search on the interwebs, you'll find most of her seminal work on Pornhub...
I see what you did there....
Plenty of culturally enriching works to be had there, I'm sure.
Is that really her? LOLOL
Quote from: jeff37923 on July 05, 2022, 05:17:43 AM
Quote from: 3catcircus on July 04, 2022, 02:01:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 19, 2022, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 19, 2022, 07:15:13 AM
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Satine's fame comes from having makeup like a TOS era Klingon?
If you do an adequate search on the interwebs, you'll find most of her seminal work on Pornhub...
Quote from: Batjon on July 05, 2022, 07:21:16 PM
Is that really her? LOLOL
Quote from: jeff37923 on July 05, 2022, 05:17:43 AM
Quote from: 3catcircus on July 04, 2022, 02:01:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on June 19, 2022, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Battlemaster on June 19, 2022, 07:15:13 AM
Now that I'm done vomiting I'll say that this satine woman looks sorta hot in a cheap, vulgar, over make upped, over tattooed, under dressed sort of way. I think she has more porcelain in her mouth than my bathroom. She looks like a piece of 100% USDA certified fuckmeat, not much more.
I suspect that's the source of her """fame""" in the RPG community.
Satine's fame comes from having makeup like a TOS era Klingon?
If you do an adequate search on the interwebs, you'll find most of her seminal work on Pornhub...
Bear in mind I pointed this out, not to make the claim that she is talentless outside of a porno movie set (although that may well be true); rather, that coming from an industry where she was very likely subject to harassment (sexual and otherwise), why would she herself engage in it unless she was a garbage human to begin with? Which pretty much seems to be common amongst *many* of the current generation of RPG "personalities" who seem to be famous (or want to be famous) for being famous rather than putting out good products...
Well, and I know this would get me retroactively banned back to the dawn of time on TBP, some women do find it easier to become financially secure via sex than other means, and in terrible job markets, it is at least understandable to a degree.
I'm not saying that automatically makes a woman bad, in fact given women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it. I'm fair, understanding, reasonable, accepting, etc, without being full blown woke.
But for her to claim being this gamer 'personality' if she wouldn't know a saving throw from a to hit roll as i suspect may be the case does offend me as a gamer
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it.
Pretty sure female porn stars get paid more, even though male 'talent' is rarer given the demands of the job.
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
Well, and I know this would get me retroactively banned back to the dawn of time on TBP, some women do find it easier to become financially secure via sex than other means, and in terrible job markets, it is at least understandable to a degree.
I'm not saying that automatically makes a woman bad, in fact given women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it. I'm fair, understanding, reasonable, accepting, etc, without being full blown woke.
But for her to claim being this gamer 'personality' if she wouldn't know a saving throw from a to hit roll as i suspect may be the case does offend me as a gamer
There's a reason 'sex sells' is part of Marketing 101, after all.
But yeah, I'm unimpressed with her 'credentials'. Hell, I'd sooner play with Wil Wheaton and I think he's a complete jackass.
Quote from: S'mon on July 06, 2022, 02:17:00 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it.
Pretty sure female porn stars get paid more, even though male 'talent' is rarer given the demands of the job.
Well OK, I meant similar mainstream jobs, but wasn't totally clear.
So if porn is one case where women get things better, well, good for them! Hey I believe in fair play.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
Well, and I know this would get me retroactively banned back to the dawn of time on TBP, some women do find it easier to become financially secure via sex than other means, and in terrible job markets, it is at least understandable to a degree.
I'm not saying that automatically makes a woman bad, in fact given women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it. I'm fair, understanding, reasonable, accepting, etc, without being full blown woke.
But for her to claim being this gamer 'personality' if she wouldn't know a saving throw from a to hit roll as i suspect may be the case does offend me as a gamer
There's a reason 'sex sells' is part of Marketing 101, after all.
But yeah, I'm unimpressed with her 'credentials'. Hell, I'd sooner play with Wil Wheaton and I think he's a complete jackass.
How about Vin Diesel?
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 10:14:09 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
Well, and I know this would get me retroactively banned back to the dawn of time on TBP, some women do find it easier to become financially secure via sex than other means, and in terrible job markets, it is at least understandable to a degree.
I'm not saying that automatically makes a woman bad, in fact given women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it. I'm fair, understanding, reasonable, accepting, etc, without being full blown woke.
But for her to claim being this gamer 'personality' if she wouldn't know a saving throw from a to hit roll as i suspect may be the case does offend me as a gamer
There's a reason 'sex sells' is part of Marketing 101, after all.
But yeah, I'm unimpressed with her 'credentials'. Hell, I'd sooner play with Wil Wheaton and I think he's a complete jackass.
How about Vin Diesel?
I could live with it. I admit don't know enough about him personally to make a judgement call.
Quote from: S'mon on July 06, 2022, 02:17:00 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it.
Pretty sure female porn stars get paid more, even though male 'talent' is rarer given the demands of the job.
Supply side is one concern for sure, but the Demand side for porn is much much higher from cis het bio-males.
And now I'm talking like a rpg.net guy...
Anyway, the Demand side is why female porn artists will always make more. The demand isn't there for the penis-having porn performers.
Quote from: bromides on July 07, 2022, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: S'mon on July 06, 2022, 02:17:00 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it.
Pretty sure female porn stars get paid more, even though male 'talent' is rarer given the demands of the job.
Supply side is one concern for sure, but the Demand side for porn is much much higher from cis het bio-males.
And now I'm talking like a rpg.net guy...
Anyway, the Demand side is why female porn artists will always make more. The demand isn't there for the penis-having porn performers.
But, but, but... "Transwimmen *are* women!!!, you cis-hetero shitlord!!1!!11"
Yeah, performative justice Karening. I think that's more the hobby with a lot of these dbags. When one is such a sh!tbag that they have to invent new ways to express outrage on an imaginary person's behalf.
"You just inulted 1-legged furry trans-womyxn, you Nazi!"
The "I have a black friend" racism form of socjus activism... like, there once was a point to socjus before it was hijacked by performance artist perverts like bronies took over MLP fandom. antifa are like the bronies of justice.
Quote from: bromides on July 07, 2022, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: S'mon on July 06, 2022, 02:17:00 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it.
Pretty sure female porn stars get paid more, even though male 'talent' is rarer given the demands of the job.
Supply side is one concern for sure, but the Demand side for porn is much much higher from cis het bio-males.
And now I'm talking like a rpg.net guy...
Anyway, the Demand side is why female porn artists will always make more. The demand isn't there for the penis-having porn performers.
Uh, have you ever heard of futanari? If you haven't don't look it up...
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 07, 2022, 10:01:10 PM
Quote from: bromides on July 07, 2022, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: S'mon on July 06, 2022, 02:17:00 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 05, 2022, 10:37:41 PM
women are paid less than men in similar jobs I can't condemn it.
Pretty sure female porn stars get paid more, even though male 'talent' is rarer given the demands of the job.
Supply side is one concern for sure, but the Demand side for porn is much much higher from cis het bio-males.
And now I'm talking like a rpg.net guy...
Anyway, the Demand side is why female porn artists will always make more. The demand isn't there for the penis-having porn performers.
Uh, have you ever heard of futanari? If you haven't don't look it up...
Pretty sure these folks are referencing live porn actors & actresses, and not badly-drawn cartoon porn. I'm not so sure that particular audience counts for anything in this discussion at all. At least I'm more than ready to completely discount them wholecloth.