Sandy Petersen criticizes Atlantic article on colonialism in board games, etc.

[Null42]

First of all, I believe this is within the ambit of the board guidelines as it concerns an issue within the RPG industry; if I am wrong, please correct me.

First heard about this on ENWorld (hey, it's not RPG.net):

https://www.enworld.org/threads/sandy-petersens-recent-statements-on-colonialism-transgender-athletes-and-homeschooling.681626/

So: there's been some discussion lately about fighting back against SJWs and the like. If this does blow up (or perhaps even if it doesn't), perhaps a small purchase from Petersen Games would be in order? (Assuming you have the money, of course.) If there is more of a sense that 'conservative gamers spend money too', perhaps the hobby would be less SJW-ish?

Please let me know what you think!

(For the uninitiated, Petersen was one of the people behind the original Call of Cthulhu game in the 80s, did a number of levels for the original Doom and Quake, and has done a bunch of other Cthulhu-related RPG and boardgame stuff over the years. He has a very nice Cthulhu Mythos for 5e book and one for Pathfinder if you are really looking to splurge.)

[Reckall]

The Atlantic article is terrible. "You play videogames and you are a Nazi!"-terrible. Just apply the pushback to that video here and move on.

I'm amazed that they didn't also throw "Europa Universalis" (the original boardgame, but the videogame, too) under the bus (my Portuguese colonial slave-trading in EU IV is going just fine, thank you for asking). In an article, BTW, which explicitly says that there are alternative to "colonialist" games - and so people can choose.

Next: You play "Twilight Struggle" and all of sudden you are a Communist! (or you plan a coup in Chile against Allende as the US - since you can do that too).

[Omega]

Wasnt Peterson even just recently pushing woke agenda down players throats?

[Omega]

The Atlantic article is terrible. "You play videogames and you are a Nazi!"-terrible. Just apply the pushback to that video here and move on.

I'm amazed that they didn't also throw "Europa Universalis" (the original boardgame, but the videogame, too) under the bus (my Portuguese colonial slave-trading in EU IV is going just fine, thank you for asking). In an article, BTW, which explicitly says that there are alternative to "colonialist" games - and so people can choose.

Next: You play "Twilight Struggle" and all of sudden you are a Communist! (or you plan a coup in Chile against Allende as the US - since you can do that too).

Odds are someones declared each of those over on BGG, and worse. Remember thats the place where they got cancelled a board game about colonizing Africa because it "promotes genocide".

[Zelen]

I'd like to see a board game that explores the ~2 million Europeans captured and sold into slavery by Barbary Pirates & Ottoman Empire during the 16th - 18th century.

Or maybe a board game that explores the impact of Mongol invasions killing by some estimates 100 million people as they conquered and killed & enslaved land masses from Asia to Europe & the Middle East.

What about a board game that covers the Bantu expansion that led to conquering sub-Saharan Africa and subjugating other native African peoples like the Khoisan and the Pygmies?

[Reckall]

I'd like to see a board game that explores the ~2 million Europeans captured and sold into slavery by Barbary Pirates & Ottoman Empire during the 16th - 18th century.

Or maybe a board game that explores the impact of Mongol invasions killing by some estimates 100 million people as they conquered and killed & enslaved land masses from Asia to Europe & the Middle East.

What about a board game that covers the Bantu expansion that led to conquering sub-Saharan Africa and subjugating other native African peoples like the Khoisan and the Pygmies?

Well, you can do that too in Europa Universalis IV (and Crusader Kings II) - just choose different starting nations 

[Pat]

I'd like to see a board game that explores the ~2 million Europeans captured and sold into slavery by Barbary Pirates & Ottoman Empire during the 16th - 18th century.

I was thinking about my first exposure to the Barbary Pirates, and I realized it was Robinson Crusoe. The eponymous protagonist is captured by the Salle Rovers and enslaved for 2 years, escapes, buys a plantation in the Americas, and then is famously shipwrecked on a voyage to procure slaves from Africa.

In other words, the first novel in the English language depicts the universality of slavery, and presents a more complex and nuanced perspective than is seen in many modern discussions. The whole period makes a great setting for games of all kinds.

[Armchair Gamer]

It hit RPGNet too--and they didn't lock it. (But then, they also didn't get any of the pushback Morrus did.)

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cw-racism-transphobia-sandy-petersens-statements-on-colonialism-trans-people-in-sports-and-german-homeschooling.884605/

I picked up the PDF of Cthulhu Mythos for 5E when it was on sale a couple weeks back (I don't like 5E, but it seemed an easier extraction for things like C&C than the Pathfinder version), and like what I've seen of it. I'd back or buy a C&C/S&W/OSR or Savage Worlds version. If you actually like 5E or Pathfinder as systems, I think it's worth the money.

Anyone know anything about their 8-Bit Attack card game? That one looks right up my alley.

EDIT: Oh, FYI, Petersen Games is also running their Christmas in July sale right now on their own website, which has everything but a handful of items for 40% off. Print or PDF options available for the RPG stuff.

[Armchair Gamer]

Wasnt Peterson even just recently pushing woke agenda down players throats?

  I don't know what you're thinking of, but I've been following Sandy Petersen on Twitter for a few years, and I can guarantee he's not by any means 'woke.'   

  Chaosium may be a different story ...

https://twitter.com/Chaosium_Inc/status/1419322192194510848

[Shasarak]

Good on Sandy Petersen for recognising that people play games to have fun.

Thats a real shocker!

[Omega]

Wasnt Peterson even just recently pushing woke agenda down players throats?

  I don't know what you're thinking of, but I've been following Sandy Petersen on Twitter for a few years, and I can guarantee he's not by any means 'woke.'   

  Chaosium may be a different story ...

https://twitter.com/Chaosium_Inc/status/1419322192194510848

Ok so he is no longer a part of Chaosium? And was not a part of their woke agenda? Thats good to hear.

[BoxCrayonTales]

At worst board games where you engage in historical colonialism are insensitive to the real atrocities committed against indigenous peoples that have lingering consequences even today, but playing it doesn't make players complicit.

Would the media prefer a revenge fantasy like the Haitian Revolution where tons of white people really were killed or raped as vengeance for the centuries of slavery, death, and rape perpetuated against black Haitians? That's hardly an improvement.

[Reckall]

It hit RPGNet too--and they didn't lock it. (But then, they also didn't get any of the pushback Morrus did.)

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cw-racism-transphobia-sandy-petersens-statements-on-colonialism-trans-people-in-sports-and-german-homeschooling.884605/

Notice how they try to put together three different statements by someone on three different topics so to already implicitly condemn the first

[Melichor]

Third comment in...

What company or product is this person associated with?

And the fourth comment in...

At a certain point people will start walking away from this hobby just for the fact that its heroes keep turning out to be monsters.

These are the words of a monster:

@SandyofCthulhu
·
Jul 23
can I just play my damn games without some cheerless nanny trying to stop me? Literally no one is being "colonized" when I play Age of Colonization.

@SandyofCthulhu
·
Jul 23
A person with the XY genome's muscle mass regardless of declared gender OBVIOUSLY has an edge over the XX genome in most competitive sports. Instead of classifying sport participation by pronoun, why not by genome?

I just want my granddaughters to be able to compete in track & field against people who don't have a genetic edge. Is that wrong?

This is our Brave New World.

[Reckall]

Third comment in...

What company or product is this person associated with?

And the fourth comment in...

At a certain point people will start walking away from this hobby just for the fact that its heroes keep turning out to be monsters.

These are the words of a monster:

@SandyofCthulhu
·
Jul 23
can I just play my damn games without some cheerless nanny trying to stop me? Literally no one is being "colonized" when I play Age of Colonization.

@SandyofCthulhu
·
Jul 23
A person with the XY genome's muscle mass regardless of declared gender OBVIOUSLY has an edge over the XX genome in most competitive sports. Instead of classifying sport participation by pronoun, why not by genome?

I just want my granddaughters to be able to compete in track & field against people who don't have a genetic edge. Is that wrong?

This is our Brave New World.

Fact is: there is a lot of sane and articulate pushback against the idea that "Colonialism in games is problematic" (and notice the recurring use of the key word: "Problematic" - i.e. "I will neither define the problem not articulate it. I refuse from the very start to engage in facts and clear definitions.")

This pushback is present both in the thread on BGG and in the answers to Petersen's tweet. Nothing new here: it is the same pushback that "You play videogames and you are a Nazi!" got. Not to mention wargames: if you play Advanced Squad Leader as the Germans and you exult because your flamethrower squad just got a good result, what does this make of you? (Answer: someone who is pushing around cardboard chits on a cardboard map while rolling some dice.)

But "The Atlantic" doesn't present these opposing opinions, not even by synthesizing them. They pick an obscure YT channel where a guy makes a vague excuse about having suggested "Puerto Rico" as a good game, but the wide dismantling of the whole "Games promoting Colonialism are problematic!" idea is ignored. Once again, a "progressive" idea is pushed out and supported only by ignoring or hiding facts about the matter.

Which brings to the obvious question: if you believe that your idea is right, why do you fear opposite opinions? Just present the facts and let people decide for themselves. Strangely, this never happens with this kind of "progressive" ideas.