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Author Topic: Ryan Dancey's Latest Column  (Read 10162 times)

David R

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« Reply #150 on: January 09, 2012, 06:22:46 PM »
Kyle this is D&D, high level play is part of what makes it great. Sure everyone eventually finds their sweetspot but crawling your way up the ladder with no fudging is the stuff legends are made of.

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Kyle Aaron

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« Reply #151 on: January 09, 2012, 06:34:24 PM »
What you describe isn't the joy of high-level play, it's the joy of journeying to high-level play. It's the road, not the destination.

All the high-level campaigns I ever saw, they started high level. These were the guys who if we played GURPS and made ourselves as characters would insist they were 250 point characters.
"But that's superhuman."
"I don't want to play a cripple."
Munchkins, in other words.

And nobody's high-level play had them as lords and heads of thieves' guilds and so on. They just went around beating up Tiamat and Zeus and stuff.
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David R

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« Reply #152 on: January 09, 2012, 06:53:08 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;502510
What you describe isn't the joy of high-level play, it's the joy of journeying to high-level play. It's the road, not the destination.

And nobody's high-level play had them as lords and heads of thieves' guilds and so on. They just went around beating up Tiamat and Zeus and stuff.


I guess our experiences differ. High level play in my games didn't involve the players going around killing gods and stuff. And I know of a few GMs who are just wrapping up their high level campaigns which involved stuff other than killing powerful beings (although they did some of that too). But maybe you're right about "journeying" to high level play. Nothing wrong with that and it what's makes D&D great for me.

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David R

Opaopajr

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« Reply #153 on: January 09, 2012, 06:58:09 PM »
Wow, that sounds thoroughly miserable to me.

I've heard of such things, people marching off their demigods to wipe out pantheons, but always thought of it as a bore. If the GM is being that lenient with you and not bringing down the full weight of entire cultures and planets worshiping a deity, along with the deity's own firepower, then it's just masturbatory arena fight. And at that point I just see it as bad/boring GMing because no pantheon would tackle a group of deity killing demigods by their lonesome in some WWE match of one-man v. a dog pile of PCs. At that point might as well have the GM metaphorically fellate the players, blathering on how you win everything you ever do and are showered in glories and treasure wherever you go, forever and ever, amen. Tedious.

But then I find negotiating bill of lading contracts in D&D fun, because I see an actual challenge there... To each their own, I guess.
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« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2012, 11:25:24 PM »
All the high-level play that I ever ran (excluding Amber, I guess, which basically starts you out at high level compared to other games; but including Amber if you're talking about gradually fighting your way up to being on par with the Elder Amberites) were games that had the characters starting from the bottom, and slowly working their way up.

And all of these games involved the PCs killing gods AND running guilds/manors, etc.

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Daddy Warpig

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« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2012, 11:46:52 PM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;501207
No one seems to understand the nurturing of creativity requires an incubator, not a full court press of media spotlight.

The success of Marvel's movies, whom Hasbro was trying to emulate, is in large part due to many elements being taken from the Ultimate universe. (Example: Cap. America's costume.)

The Ultimate comics were a place to play with new and different versions of core Marvel icons, and as a result of being such a laboratory they gave birth to new ideas that the later movies could draw on, thus becoming successes.

"Produce now or die!" is an idiotic approach to creative endeavors. And RPG development is indisputably a creative endeavor.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 12:17:36 AM by Daddy Warpig »
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Daddy Warpig

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« Reply #156 on: January 11, 2012, 12:23:35 AM »
Quote from: Justin Alexander;502361
The latter probably would have looked long and hard at realm-management systems. But those would require the invention (or re-invention) of game structures to actually support those systems.

Part of my "Storm Knights" Torg campaign is a 5-Stage campaign which, in many ways, unknowingly duplicated your E(x) structure, especially in terms of escalating character power.

In particular interest to me is this: part of it is (in effect) Realm-management structures. Torg has a lot of "patron organizations": Rauru Block, Delphi Council, etc. Part of Stage-3 is taking over and running one of these organizations, so you can begin to fight the Possibility Wars.

When I genericized it to Destiny's 5-Stage campaign model, it didn't occur to me that the same element could be key to higher Stage play there as well. Nice.

And thanks for the links. I'm definitely giving the E(x) post a couple of run-throughs.

EDIT:

And I see no reason why Realm management couldn't be an integral and cool part of a revamped D&D, of whatever edition.
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Daddy Warpig

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« Reply #157 on: January 11, 2012, 12:39:58 AM »
Quote from: Justin Alexander;502361
The latter probably would have looked long and hard at realm-management systems. But those would require the invention (or re-invention) of game structures to actually support those systems.

I think realm management (in a vein similar to those mentioned for AD&D) would be a great high-level addition. Reign does this, and seems to get props for it.

(I built a similar option into my "Storm Knights" campaign, as well as an explicit 5-Stage campaign structure that is analogous to your E(x) concept.)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 12:47:00 AM by Daddy Warpig »
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Rincewind1

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« Reply #158 on: January 11, 2012, 12:41:17 AM »
In simple and short words - bring back the Endgame other then "let's go and slay Orcus".

This is why I love Mount & Blade - you start out as a guy with little more then rags on your back, a lousy horse and rusted sword, but you can end up being a king.

Well, in Warband at least.
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Kyle Aaron

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« Reply #159 on: January 11, 2012, 12:58:25 AM »
Rincewind, try the Freelancer mod. You can enlist in a King or Lord's army and be promoted through the ranks, getting new gear each time.

Experience the frustration of a common soldier wondering what the fuck the lord is doing tactically as your fellow soldiers are butchered horribly :D
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Rincewind1

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« Reply #160 on: January 11, 2012, 01:01:04 AM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;503223
Rincewind, try the Freelancer mod. You can enlist in a King or Lord's army and be promoted through the ranks, getting new gear each time.

Experience the frustration of a common soldier wondering what the fuck the lord is doing tactically as your fellow soldiers are butchered horribly :D

Ooooh.

Then again, Mount and Blade, Neverwinter Nights and Civilisation 4 (especially the middle one) are basically games that once I start, I might as well just put a sign up "Going to be dead to the world".

Still, M&B is an awesome simulator of a knight.
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Kyle Aaron

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« Reply #161 on: January 11, 2012, 03:30:09 AM »
I assume you have "M&B: With Fire and Sword"? If not, your Polish citizenship may be revoked.
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Rincewind1

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« Reply #162 on: January 11, 2012, 03:33:19 AM »
As 1/64 of a bastard son of a noble (Russian, but sssh), how dare you suggest otherwise, Sir.

Then again, I do always play Cossacks. Hm.
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