TheRPGSite

The topic came up in another thread.

It came up when The Butcher said, "I don't think LBB Classic could do either without some serious work (any more than, say, OD&D could do LotR), but I could be wrong as my Classic-fu is weak. Mongoose can do either out of the box, the chapter on psionics even features a very Jedi-like "psi-warrior" career path."

To which I replied, "Actually it can. Psionics are pretty close to the force already. Indeed in the prequels they start training jedi as infants, by my math that gives a +4 to psionic Strength. (It's 2d6-1 per term past 18). A light saber has the range of a broadsword and the penetration and damage of a laser rifle. Blasters have the stats of similarly sized and functioned projectile weapons but are +1 damage per die and double the ammo capacity. Ships look about the same except that they get a deflector shields that absorb one hit per power plant rating per turn. And all fuel hits cause a massive explosion that destroys the ship.

Trek on the other hand takes a few more tweaks. Jump # becomes maximum warp factor. A phaser I has the stats of a laser carbine and the weight and handling (stat reqs) of a body pistol. A phaser II has the stats of a laser rifle and the weight and handling of an autopistol. The starfleet branches are analogs to various carreers. I'd require one term in the Scouts followed by terms in marines (security), Navy (Command), Scouts (Science or Medical), If Citizens of the Imperium is available then I'd use Scientist (Science) or Doctor (Medical) instead.

It's the ships that would take some extra effort. Trek doesn't seem to have Traveller's massive jump fuel requirements. For existing designs I'd leave things as is and assume that the volume is taken up by the antimater containment system, matter replicator supplies, and but not have it exhausted by FTL travel. Ships would recieve a Shields rating equal to their power plant rating. Each hit taken reduces the rating by one for each damage result inflicted but shields refresh after each combat turn."

To which amacris responded, "Wow. That was awesome! I want run Star Trek Traveller and Star Wars Traveller on the basis of these posts. How would you allow for the greater survivability of ST and SW characters versus the default deadliness of Travller? (E.g. lightsabers blocking blasters, etc.)"

"With my newly bursting ego capacity I replied."

For Light Sabers blocking blasters I'd just allow a Palladium style parry that's boosted with the character's precog rating. It's a little weak but I think plot immunity of some sort is more appropriate to the cinematic settings.

I'd take a page from WEG's Starwars on that one: Force Points. The Referee should generate everyone's psi potential and ignore that many potentially deadly hits, including vehicular ones, telling the players they've lucked out when it happens so they know there's a diminishing resource that's running out. Force trained individuals lose a point of psi strength each time it happens since they're trained to understand and be sensitive to these things.

Vector movement has to go from space combat for both settings. I'd just treat the drive as movement points and charge a point for a hex side change and allow a piloting roll to make the turn for free or make a tighter 120 degree turn with a roll and a thrust point. A Star Wars space combat hex is a kilometer and a Star Trek space combat hex is ten light seconds but in both cases you have to be in the same hex to attack

Ship mounted phasers need a little more detail. I'm thinking you should be able to make a Gunner skill roll (8+ of course) to pick your hit location. Phasers are beam lasers and disruptors are pulse lasers. The computers,  stay the same size, of course!  I'm thinking I'd make the shields double the Power Plant rating so actual lasers can do one point of damage and phasers, disruptors, can do 2 points.  Missiles still cause 1d6 hits and torpedoes cause 2d6 hits.

Transporters have orbital range in TOS and in system range in TNG if the Engineer can make a skill roll.  They are installed / included on all ships as even with anti-gravity the Star Trek universe seems to avoid lifting cargo from planetside whenever possible.  This probably means that Star Trek antigrav isn't as energy efficient as Traveller antigrav.

I'd peg StarWars at TL17 and Star Trek at TL 21 but that's just a guess at best.  White Globes exist in both.  Another possiblility is that Blasters are inhibited by Nuclear Dampners or Repulsors and those are the Deflector Shields on Star Wars vessels.  Though that's a High Guard based answer and we're trying to stick to core.

For the really big ships using just the Classic Traveller Book I'd suggest simply muliplying everything by ten.  Sure, it's lazy and imprecise but the whole point was that it wouldn't be hard to do Trek or Wars in Classic Traveller.

I ran Star Wars sweetly with StarCluster 3, and if it can be done with SC3, it can be done with Traveller.

-clash

Nice, some good suggestions here.

Since Trav came out the same year as Star Wars, I guess lots of players incorporated SW mods in their games.  Freelance Traveller has some interesting info on such campaigns here (http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/othroads/index.html).

Quote from: flyingmice;637948I ran Star Wars sweetly with StarCluster 3, and if it can be done with SC3, it can be done with Traveller.

-clash

It's not so much a matter of Traveller as a whole being unable to do them as it is being able to do them with just the little black books with minimal modification.

Which brought another little issue to mind.  Aliens are handled as the little black books suggest.  You say "My character's a Vulcan" and pow he's a Vulcan or "My character's a Wookie," and pow he's a Wookie.  Rationalizing that 2 Strength Wookie or that 2 Intelligence Vulcan is your problem.

Quote from: David Johansen;637954It's not so much a matter of Traveller as a whole being unable to do them as it is being able to do them with just the little black books with minimal modification.

I wasn't in the least disagreeing, David. It certainly can. There was no doubt in my mind.

-clash

Ya, Traveller works fine for these, as it did back in the day for folks.  The biological differences are more cultural for Vulcans and Wookiees.  Spock and Chewbacca are a pair of the best their worlds offer, just as Kirk and Luke.  I wouldn't add a racial aspect into Traveller.  Perhaps include mustering out or similar benefits as Vulcan Academy or Speeder Racing.  

For Light Saber versus blaster, simply use the blade vs blade rule that the defenders blade skill in blade vs blaster is applied as a negative modifier to the attackers blaster chance to hit.  For ship to ship combat, greatly decrease the range of phasers or ship blasters compared to standard Traveller weapons, which would make close range combat a given.  It is just a different technology issue, different weapons and so on.  Star Trek is a higher tech level than standard Traveller, in some ways Star Wars is lower in others higher.  Traveller tech levels are not necessarily an across the board leveler for a world.  Say our world, our space travel is still at 8, but our computers are 9.  So,  Star Wars can have advanced space travel, but have relatively low weapons.

All great stuff!

Maybe Lightsaber parrying involves a Psi power that, when activated, allows you to subtract your Lightsaber skill from attacks against you.

With regard to Force Points/Psi Potential, I could see that making sense. It would have to be a permanent loss, though, to avoid each PC having 4-12 lives per session. Perhaps you can recover a lost Force Point by doing something heroic, a la D6 Star Wars.

What about character advancement? Star Wars at least seems to embrace the "young hero who grows in skill" model, rather than the "grizzled vet at the top of his game" that Traveller tends to produce.

Mongoose and Amarillo Design Bureau are working together on a Mongoose Traveller version of Prime Directive  (http://www.starfleetgames.com/Traveller%20Prime%20Directive.shtml)even now.

(http://www.starfleetgames.com/images/Mongoose/Traveller%20Prime%20Directive%20Cover%20(FAKE)%20copy.jpg)

Looking forward to that Star Trek game from Mongoose.  For sure.  As you say amacris, the Force (psionics) could be used to augment standard skill based modifiers.  Standard telekinesis can be used in this way without modification.  There is slow skill advancement possible in Traveller, which is appropriate, since it does take Luke years to achieve his pilot ability.  Also, the Force (psionic) rules do have a training rule that is set to develop a character's full potential over time, which is considerably faster than skill development.  So, it mirrors Luke's natural Force talent rather well.

People only think Traveller has no advancement rules because they weren't in book 1.

Anyhow, I want to like Mongoose Traveller but I just can't seem to.  I was running it for a while, last month but it sure convinced me that the only way Traveller character generation works right is with death in character generation.  I don't like the handling of stat bonuses or the skill packages either.

I really like T5 but our playtest of it earlier this year left something to be desired.  I think much of it was a referee issue but it was also a nothing we have penetrates these guys armor issue too.  Which is a referee issue too if you see what I mean.

Quote from: David Johansen;638003People only think Traveller has no advancement rules because they weren't in book 1.

Anyhow, I want to like Mongoose Traveller but I just can't seem to.  I was running it for a while, last month but it sure convinced me that the only way Traveller character generation works right is with death in character generation.  I don't like the handling of stat bonuses or the skill packages either.

I really like T5 but our playtest of it earlier this year left something to be desired.  I think much of it was a referee issue but it was also a nothing we have penetrates these guys armor issue too.  Which is a referee issue too if you see what I mean.

Ya, experience developed in game is in book 2.  I suppose one could say that book 2 and 3 are referee books, if one wished to look at it that way.  So, I suppose it is not surprising that many players may not have carefully read 2 and 3.

I think it is great that Mongoose is doing what they are doing and that folks really enjoy it, but I do stick to the 3 books for the most part these days.  It is good that Marc is enjoying his work on T5.  I'm very happy that is so.  I just received some e-mail updates today from him about it that he sent out to everyone as a mass e-mail.  I don't use the Third Imperium setting for the most part.  So, my interest in it is not aligned with those aspects of it.

There's a reason the original traveller had laser-swords.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;638411There's a reason the original traveller had laser-swords.

RPGPundit

Really?  :D

Quote from: jeff37923;638412Really?  :D

Yes. You can totally tell that most of the concepts of Traveller were thought up PRE-StarWars, but then they tacked on stuff Post-Starwars.  But its neat, because you can see just how much SW utterly changed Sci-Fi; Trav never could just do a decent emulation, they were a pre-SW sci-fi game that took to wearing some SW-drag to take advantage of the mania.

Quote from: RPGPundit;638729Yes. You can totally tell that most of the concepts of Traveller were thought up PRE-StarWars, but then they tacked on stuff Post-Starwars.  But its neat, because you can see just how much SW utterly changed Sci-Fi; Trav never could just do a decent emulation, they were a pre-SW sci-fi game that took to wearing some SW-drag to take advantage of the mania.

Hmm...I don't know.  Traveller does Star Wars no worse than the licensed d6 or d20.  One thing for sure, by using one's own perception to build the Star Wars universe the setting is always done right as one sees it.  So, there are advantages to a non-licensed game.  I have friends that McLove d6 Star Wars, though.  d20 Star Wars does have good science fantasy rules for that system too.  Whatever system one is strongest is the best choice, as is usually the case.

Quote from: RPGPundit;638729But its neat, because you can see just how much SW utterly changed Sci-Fi

I'm a big fan of Star Wars, but the idea that it contained even a single innovative genre trope is absurd. It's all yanked straight out of the pulps.

Quote from: RPGPundit;638729Yes. You can totally tell that most of the concepts of Traveller were thought up PRE-StarWars, but then they tacked on stuff Post-Starwars.  But its neat, because you can see just how much SW utterly changed Sci-Fi; Trav never could just do a decent emulation, they were a pre-SW sci-fi game that took to wearing some SW-drag to take advantage of the mania.

Actually, I was being incredulous about the laser-swords. No version of Traveller that I have seen has had laser-swords. The only time I can think of when there were laser-swords in Traveller was in an old White Dwarf article.

Quote from: jeff37923;638891Actually, I was being incredulous about the laser-swords. No version of Traveller that I have seen has had laser-swords. The only time I can think of when there were laser-swords in Traveller was in an old White Dwarf article.

I was just about to say the same thing.  Blade, cutlass, etc. are all just normal swords and knives.

Quote from: jeff37923;638891Actually, I was being incredulous about the laser-swords. No version of Traveller that I have seen has had laser-swords. The only time I can think of when there were laser-swords in Traveller was in an old White Dwarf article.

Really? I was quite sure it was in Classic Traveller somewhere...

There's no laser pistols or droids or aliens either.  I hesitated to say so because occasionally in this industry there are pre-release ashcans I didn't know about or see.  But as I said, the stats are actually in there if you're willing to modify things just a little.

Quote from: David Johansen;639306There's no laser pistols or droids or aliens either.  I hesitated to say so because occasionally in this industry there are pre-release ashcans I didn't know about or see.  But as I said, the stats are actually in there if you're willing to modify things just a little.

Right. IIRC, they were about to release Traveller when Star Wars was released. They pulled it back and modified it some to better accommodate that style before releasing it in 1977, but no light swords or blasters.

-clash

Quote from: David Johansen;639306There's no laser pistols or droids or aliens either.  I hesitated to say so because occasionally in this industry there are pre-release ashcans I didn't know about or see.  But as I said, the stats are actually in there if you're willing to modify things just a little.

I'll be damned. So did I dream them??

Well as was mentioned, there was that WD article. But I was very much 'by the book,' and I remember concocting something for a player. If there had been something semi-official, I would've used those stats instead.

Quote from: RPGPundit;639679I'll be damned. So did I dream them??

It was a beautiful dream.

Real men use Broad Swords.  There are stats for Darth Vadar and Luke Skywalker in Citizens of the Imperium

I always preferred the cutlass.  ha  

That was a fun bit in Citizens of the Imperium and 1001 Characters.  This is the identifying list of all those provided in Citizen of the Imperium and 1001 Characters.  The statistics for them are included in the given supplement.  It provides one a pretty good idea the breadth Traveller was applied even in GDW contributor games, let alone everyone’s home campaigns.



Citizens of the Imperium

“1. Luke Skywalker, from Star Wars, by Gene Lucas,

2. James "Slippery Jim" di Griz, from The Stainless Steel Rat, by Harry Harrison.

3. Sargeant Major Calvin, from Sword and Sceptre, and The Mercenary, by Jerry Pournelle.

4. Senior Physician Conway, from the Sector General series, including Major Operation and Ambulance Ship, by James White.

5. Jame Retief, from the Retief series, including Galactic Diplomat and Retief's War, by Keith Laumer.

6. Lord Darth Vader, from Star Wars, by Gene Lucas.

7. Harry Mudd, from Star Trek.

8. Simok Artrap, from The Stars, Like Dust, by Isaac Asimov.”



1001 Characters

“1. John Carter of Mars, from Edgar Rice Burrough's John Carter of Mars series.

2. Kimball Kinnison, from the Lensman Series by E. E. "Doc" Smith.

3. Jason din Alt, from the Deathworld Trilogy by Harry Harrison.

4. Earl Dumarest, from the Dumarest Saga, by E. C. Tubb.

5. Beowulf Shaeffer, from At the Core, and other stories of Known Space by Larry Niven.

6. Anthony Villiers, from Starwell, and The Thurb Revolution, by Alexei Panshin.

7. Dominic Flandry, from the Flandry Series by Poul Anderson.

8. Kirth Girsen, from the Killing Machine, one of five Demon Prince novels by Jack Vance,

9. Gully Foyle, from the Stars, My Destination, by Alfred Bester.”

Staff, Citizens of the Imperium 43 (GDW 1979).

In any case, I think Traveller would be much better suited to Star Trek than Star Wars, really, it reflects that earlier brand of Sci-fi.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;639917In any case, I think Traveller would be much better suited to Star Trek than Star Wars, really, it reflects that earlier brand of Sci-fi.

RPGPundit

You can do Doctor Who easily enough using Mongoose Traveller.

Quote from: jeff37923;639933You can do Doctor Who easily enough using Mongoose Traveller.

I'm sure you could but I don't think it'd be as natural a fit.

Quote from: RPGPundit;640023I'm sure you could but I don't think it'd be as natural a fit.

It is not a natural fit, you are correct. It is also not seamless, but it is smooth in its implementation.

Quote from: RPGPundit;639679I'll be damned. So did I dream them??

Maybe you were thinking of FGU's SPACE OPERA, it had Laser Swords.

Quote from: jeff37923;639933You can do Doctor Who easily enough using Mongoose Traveller.

I would probably just use Time Master, if doing Doctor Who.

Quote from: flyingcircus;640097Maybe you were thinking of FGU's SPACE OPERA, it had Laser Swords.

That sounds about right!

-clash

Quote from: flyingcircus;640097Maybe you were thinking of FGU's SPACE OPERA, it had Laser Swords.

Huh. Must have been, but that's really weird, I barely even looked at Space Opera.

RPGPundit

Yeah, SPACE OPERA, that brings me back, I use to play the hell out of that game, more than TRAVELLER.  Kinda wish someone would get this thing and re-write and clean it up, make it look new and shinny and re-print it with some updated material and an updated engine.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;638829I'm a big fan of Star Wars, but the idea that it contained even a single innovative genre trope is absurd. It's all yanked straight out of the pulps.

Yes and no. There's a lot of pulp/comic book/serial stuff in Star Wars, but what Lucas did that was innovative was to yank things from other genres: westerns, samurai movies, Arthurian legend, swashbucklers of the 30s and 40s and even his own earlier movies about an oppressive police state and teenagers who go hot-rodding as they dream of getting away from the boring little place they grew up in.

Cross-pollination is a good thing.

Quote from: Elfdart;640561Cross-pollination is a good thing.

When its done right, yes.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Kuroth;637970For Light Saber versus blaster, simply use the blade vs blade rule that the defenders blade skill in blade vs blaster is applied as a negative modifier to the attackers blaster chance to hit.  For ship to ship combat, greatly decrease the range of phasers or ship blasters compared to standard Traveller weapons, which would make close range combat a given.

I don't know about that. The reason ship-to-ship combat takes place at such close range in the movies and TV shows is simply to allow the viewer to see as much of the action as possible in one shot. This is why movies set during modern wars usually don't feature long-range artillery duels -at least not as the centerpiece of the action.

You'll notice that both Star Wars and Star Trek battles take place at close range for a reason in-universe. Either the constant jamming (SW) forces combatants to use their eyes rather than sensors -shortening the range, or the ships are forced in close proximity as a way of physically blocking the enemy off. In ST, you have that nebula thing in Wrath of Khan that ruins sensors.

There's no reason to assume weapons in either setting don't have the ranges weapons in Traveler do.

 

QuoteIt is just a different technology issue, different weapons and so on.  Star Trek is a higher tech level than standard Traveller, in some ways Star Wars is lower in others higher.  Traveller tech levels are not necessarily an across the board leveler for a world.  Say our world, our space travel is still at 8, but our computers are 9.  So,  Star Wars can have advanced space travel, but have relatively low weapons.

SW weapons and ship speed are many orders of magnitude greater than the ones in ST.

So...did the Traveller Star Trek game mentioned and shown in this thread ever come into existence?

No, for reasons unknown, it's vaporware.  Could be the same Mongoose licensing nonsense that led to the Cephus Engine.

Oh well, I was mainly curious; I probably wouldn't have used Traveller for Star Trek anyway. When I play Traveller it's to get away from a bright and glossy Federation of nice guys and get out into the dirty frontier of retired soldiers on the make...! Still, it would be interesting to see it officially written up. Is Mongoose Traveller backwards compatible with original  Traveller? Somehow I think I have a copy someone gave me erroneously thinking it was the same thing, but I either never got around to reading it or barely skimmed it and stashed it away somewhere. Or else I'm dreaming the whole incident.

Well, it's Prime Directive so its timeline diverges after the original series.  The original series is actually a series of training films about incidents involving a number of different ships and crews in the Star Fleet Universe.

Mongoose Traveller is only superficially compatible with any other version of Traveller, same stats and similar skills but it's really its own game.  Initiative rolls and attribute bonuses and skill packages to make sure your group has the right skills for the campaign.  On the other hand outside of Classic and Megatraveller even official editions aren't all that compatible.

Maybe I should do a Trek with Classic Traveller write-up like the one I did for Starwars?

I think the first thing would be that the branches of Starfleet correspond to Traveller careers but ranks are all Navy ranks.  So, Marines are security, Command and Engineering are Navy, Science is the Scientist career or perhaps scouts.  You can change branches and cross train while remaining within Starfleet.

Star  Trek's gotta be TL21 or so.  I think the way to handle that would be with outright new ship's systems and equipment.  In essence, a Warp Drive isn't just a reskinned Jump Drive that needs heavy, expensive, fuel handling apparatus, it's new hardware farther up the chart.  Likewise a transporter, shields, tricorders, and phasers would need their own write-ups.  I'm thinking a Phaser I should have the stats of a Laser Rifle and ship's Phasers should, at the very least inflict 1d6 damage results per hit.  Phaser rifles should be able to kill tanks.  Shields probably get a rating that ignores a number of hits per turn.

Quote from: David Johansen;975855No, for reasons unknown, it's vaporware.  Could be the same Mongoose licensing nonsense that led to the Cephus Engine.

It was. No reasons unknown about it.

The only thing I will say on Traveller : Prime Directive is that it's been mooted for a long, long time now, and while I do recall someone saying they were holding back for the new edition (a couple of years ago) I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

In the case of Star Wars, I don't really know if Lucas and co. really knew their own tropes when the original came out, but the whole spectacle of it really took sci-fi into a different era of mass interest at the time. So it did change sci-fi, and what people thought of the genre. For me, I like having a slightly more 'grounded' scifi, as preference, but Star Wars-style space opera is totally doable within the ruleset. To make Star Trek work, you need some different assumptions (like the Prime Directive as an obvious example) and probably use troupe-style play for larger ships and crew.  

But honestly, you can do most types of Scifi with Traveller, with an open mind at least. Its a generic system.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;975865The only thing I will say on Traveller : Prime Directive is that it's been mooted for a long, long time now, and while I do recall someone saying they were holding back for the new edition (a couple of years ago) I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

In the case of Star Wars, I don't really know if Lucas and co. really knew their own tropes when the original came out, but the whole spectacle of it really took sci-fi into a different era of mass interest at the time. So it did change sci-fi, and what people thought of the genre. For me, I like having a slightly more 'grounded' scifi, as preference, but Star Wars-style space opera is totally doable within the ruleset. To make Star Trek work, you need some different assumptions (like the Prime Directive as an obvious example) and probably use troupe-style play for larger ships and crew.  

But honestly, you can do most types of Scifi with Traveller, with an open mind at least. Its a generic system.

You can, but like you said above, there is a difference. Traveller is better suited for written or hard science fiction. d6 Star Wars is better suited for science fantasy or the Star Wars genre. Star Trek is best done with FASA or Far Trek (TOS or movie eras including Abramsverse) or LUG (TNG and onwards). Why? Because those systems best emulate the particular genre, subgenre, and franchises you wish to play in.

We did both back in the day. AKA, before either FASA or West End made their games.

The result? Meh. We were really happy for both FASA Trek and WEG's SW to arrive.

My better result was using Gamma World (pre-WEG) to run a SW game in the SW universe (plus we had the Marvel comics and the Alan Dean Foster novels). That was cool. Mutations easily got revamped to be alien species or force powers and the high HP worked fine since there wasn't much armor.

If only FASA Trek was still in print, or at least PDF.

Quote from: Celestial;976079If only FASA Trek was still in print, or at least PDF.

No legal PDFs, but there are pirated PDFs easily found online of every single module and the rules plus some supplements.

I'm not sure that Star Trek would have fit well with Traveller anyways.

Quote from: Dumarest;975853So...did the Traveller Star Trek game mentioned and shown in this thread ever come into existence?

Nope. Mongoose Traveller announce its 2nd Edition rulebook being playtested in June of 2015. So Traveller: Prime Directive was cancelled. They didn't want to be stuck with a bunch of PD books for 1st Edition MgT, which happened to them before when GURPS 4e was announced.

So I told Matthew at Mongoose to put my T:PD pre-order money (from 2011?) towards the MgT 2nd Edition book instead. The person working on the T:PD rulebook was taking too long (a 5-year-mission maybe?). She spent more time posting animal pictures on the company's Facebook page, and blogging, rather than working on the game. No one in the company even played Traveller, or was interested in playtesting the rules written so far. That went on for many years after the game's announcement, and they were accepting pre-order money from folks.

Quote from: Dumarest;975857Is Mongoose Traveller backwards compatible with original Traveller?

PCs in Classic Traveller are basically at NPC level now in Mongoose Traveller. You can bring most of CT into MgT. Not the reverse though.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;976706PCs in Classic Traveller are basically at NPC level now in Mongoose Traveller. You can bring most of CT into MgT. Not the reverse though.

What is "NPC level" supposed to mean? PCs are more skilled and powerful now?

Quote from: Dumarest;978257What is "NPC level" supposed to mean? PCs are more skilled and powerful now?

PCs in Mongoose Traveller generally have more skills, and allocate a range of 0-level skills with each career, regardless. In Classic Traveller, you only specify a small range of key skills learned and it is a bit vague as to what you can do with the Characteristics on their own too. If you converted Classic Traveller to Mongoose, you would have to add the basic training idea to even it up.

Quote from: Dumarest;978257What is "NPC level" supposed to mean? PCs are more skilled and powerful now?

There is more to a character now in Mongoose Traveller. NPCs that MgT Referees quickly create for their games tend to be the equivalent of what a player would generate for their CT character.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;978268There is more to a character now in Mongoose Traveller. NPCs that MgT Referees quickly create for their games tend to be the equivalent of what a player would generate for their CT character.

Thanks...so in addition to skills and various mustering out benefits, what is the more?

Quote from: Dumarest;978271Thanks...so in addition to skills and various mustering out benefits, what is the more?

You probably would need to look at the character sheet used in each game to compare differences. MgT characters are fleshed out more, can't fit them on an index card like players do with CT characters.

In the end, it all comes down to how abstract do you want your character to be. And will they primarily be on a square grid for combat rounds. In other words, what is the purpose of the Traveller game session for your group.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;978318You probably would need to look at the character sheet used in each game to compare differences. MgT characters are fleshed out more, can't fit them on an index card like players do with CT characters.

In the end, it all comes down to how abstract do you want your character to be. And will they primarily be on a square grid for combat rounds. In other words, what is the purpose of the Traveller game session for your group.

Incredibly vague answer, but okay. Anybody else?

Quote from: Dumarest;978271Thanks...so in addition to skills and various mustering out benefits, what is the more?

The characteristics can tend to be slightly higher due to bonuses accrued. Otherwise, not much - although the additional skills are significant. The game is functionally backwards compatible, insofar that you can run Classic adventures with little difficulty.

Is Prime Directive alive in any form anymore?

Quote from: Jeffrywith1e;985257Is Prime Directive alive in any form anymore?

You can buy the books still.
http://www.starfleetstore.com/roleplaying-c-90/?zenid=a9874e77ca7e68bb460dcc1f8269e1a7

For what its worth (and probably not worth much, and utterly pedantic) Star Wars had no influence on the original Traveller Books 1, 2, and 3.

Traveller Books 1, 2, and 3 were at the printer when Star Wars was released. Both Marc Miller and Loren Wiseman have told this story across the decades in several interviews.

So there was no "polish" because of Star Wars. No influence from Star Wars. None at all. The influences are printed (as opposed to cinematic or televised) SF stories from the 40s through the 70s.

Now once Star Wars comes out... well, that's after Stars Wars comes out. Things change then.

I guess any similarities, then, can be attributed to things that were "in the air" at the time both Trav and SW came out.

Quote from: RPGPundit;987234I guess any similarities, then, can be attributed to things that were "in the air" at the time both Trav and SW came out.

What similarities? Aside from being in space...they are like chalk and cheese.

Quote from: Dumarest;987257What similarities? Aside from being in space...they are like chalk and cheese.

As far as I have observed from the folks who keep somehow thinking there are similarities between Star Wars and the original Classic Traveller rules, people have conflated memories of Star Wars with the original Traveller rules with the later Classic Traveller material.

It isn't a big deal, of course. But like you, I'm baffled by it.

It's probably worth noting that, when Star Wars originally came out in 1977, there wasn't a massive backstory to it. To the viewing public, is was just a melange of ideas taken from a variety of fantasy, wartime pulp adventure, samurai movies and so on. One of the major influences, albeit not the sole one, was the classic science fiction of the post-war era, that also inspired Traveller. Similarly, Traveller didn't have any established backstory either, really. At the time it was a generic science fiction system, with an implied setting.

When new gamers of 1977 wanted a quick reference to what the Traveller universe might look like, Star wars was the most ready, spectacular representation.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;987273It's probably worth noting that, when Star Wars originally came out in 1977, there wasn't a massive backstory to it. To the viewing public, is was just a melange of ideas taken from a variety of fantasy, wartime pulp adventure, samurai movies and so on. One of the major influences, albeit not the sole one, was the classic science fiction of the post-war era, that also inspired Traveller. Similarly, Traveller didn't have any established backstory either, really. At the time it was a generic science fiction system, with an implied setting.

When new gamers of 1977 wanted a quick reference to what the Traveller universe might look like, Star wars was the most ready, spectacular representation.

Without doubt. This is what I meant with my word "conflate" above.

And as a toolkit you can certainly drive down with the rules and build out a Star Wars setting from the rules. (Many have done so!)

But if you look at the rules, and the implied setting details the rules prompt, you really find very little that directly feels like Star Wars at all. Again, with some spit and elbow grease you can take the rules found within those three booklets and extrapolate out to something new (exactly as GDW did to build the Third Imperium setting). But there's very little connection between the two. One could easily say, "There's all this overlap with Dune" as one could say "There's all this overlap with Star Wars."

Quote from: RPGPundit;987234I guess any similarities, then, can be attributed to things that were "in the air" at the time both Trav and SW came out.

Star Wars and Traveller both borrowed from what came before them (space pirate/smugglers walking around with respirators while shooting cave mites, trying to avoid bounty hunters orbiting their planetoid hideout, etc). And of course, Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica totally influenced the Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society magazine issues. Star Wars forever froze a certain SF style, and popularized it so much, that we are all stuck with it now. Thank the gods, Traveller's setting is more than just Jedi with laser swords.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;987283Star Wars and Traveller both borrowed from what came before them (space pirate/smugglers walking around with respirators while shooting cave mites, trying to avoid bounty hunters orbiting their planetoid hideout, etc). And of course, Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica totally influenced the Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society magazine issues. Star Wars forever froze a certain SF style, and popularized it so much, that we are all stuck with it now. Thank the gods, Traveller's setting is more than just Jedi with laser swords.

Yes, quite right.