Just curious: anyone out there are using D&D 5th edition rules to run Old School Revival modules or games like Star Wars Without Number? What modifications did you have to make and how did it work out? Thanks in advance!
There was never any "old school" in need of revival as it never went away.
On topic...
I've used 5e to run BX modules. Not too hard really most if not all by now of the monsters are statted in one of the books.
One had most fun with was Keep on the Borderlands. It required no alterations that can recall. Went fairly well. We had been in the process of starting Isle of Dread when things fell apart for various reasons. Isle was a little trickier till one of the MM-esque expansions came out with more dinos in it.
Yeah, I do this all the time - I've used more OSR modules in 5e than stuff actually written for 5e.
It works great, no problems at all. Remember the 5e default DC range is 10-15-20 for easy-medium-hard. Replace 0e-2e stats with 5e stats, or do a swift conversion if necessary (flip AC to ascending, to-hit number based off Challenge, usually double hp & net damage).
I've not used 5e D&D for a genre-shift like Stars Without Number. I thought about it, but probably better to use Esper Genesis if I wanted a full-on SF game. Esper Genesis is a nice conversion of 5e D&D to space opera (in the tone of Farscape or Guardians of the Galaxy, not so much military SF or Star Trek), the free quickstart alone has plenty of material for years of play.
I have idly thought about using core 5e D&D rules for an Urban Fantasy setting, Buffy the Vampire Slayer meets Dark Conspiracy 8) - probably just Human Tiefling & Half-Elf PCs to begin with, with a default activity of monster-hunt-of-the-week. It might not take much more work than setting up a regular D&D sandbox game, and I could use plenty of published D&D scenarios - especially those with a more horror tone - but right now I'm fully focused on Faerun Adventures.
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
Quote from: JeffB on March 05, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
It's bad enough that I prefer using Pathfinder stuff converted to 5e, over most of the official 5e stuff. The official Roll20 conversion of 5e Forge of Fury I'm running is decent though, finally got nice maps - the maps in Tales from the Yawning Portal are godawful.
Not exactly (I did the opposite lol), but I did some monster conversion.
https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2018/07/o5r-converting-tsr-d-monsters-to-5e-d.html
There is an even easier route... If the original module has goblins, just google "5e SRD goblin", and so on.
The main difference is HP; 5e creatures have about twice the amount of HP when compared to old school games. That is a very rough estimative, of course.
I've done that too. Converted Tomb of Annihilation to AD&D play. Also pretty easy really.
Thanks for the tips. I've started a 5th Campaign using the Storm Kind's Thunder adventure path and am finding it to be very railroady. Thinking of maneuvering the players elsewhere.
Quote from: TobiasP on March 06, 2021, 01:59:18 AM
Thanks for the tips. I've started a 5th Campaign using the Storm Kind's Thunder adventure path and am finding it to be very railroady. Thinking of maneuvering the players elsewhere.
Yeah, just get a dozen or so OSR (etc) adventures and plop them down around your hexmap. Spend a bit of time to detail a home base (WoTC never do this right).
Et voila!
Quote from: JeffB on March 05, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
Greetings!
Hi there, Jeff! I'm interested in your perspective on the 5E "Adventure Path" rehash. How are these materials piss-poor in your view? What aspects have disappointed you so thoroughly?
Secondly, what do you think WOTC did so poorly with Saltmarsh? What should they have done to improve and make a better Saltmarsh?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: S'mon on March 06, 2021, 04:23:04 AM
Quote from: TobiasP on March 06, 2021, 01:59:18 AM
Thanks for the tips. I've started a 5th Campaign using the Storm Kind's Thunder adventure path and am finding it to be very railroady. Thinking of maneuvering the players elsewhere.
Yeah, just get a dozen or so OSR (etc) adventures and plop them down around your hexmap. Spend a bit of time to detail a home base (WoTC never do this right). Et voila!
Greetings!
Hey there, my friend! S'mon, I am definitely on the same page as you are in regards to how WOTC goes about developing "Home Bases" for adventurers. How do you think they so consistently fail at providing and developing such Home Base locations for adventurers?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on March 06, 2021, 05:34:01 AM
Quote from: JeffB on March 05, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
Greetings!
Hi there, Jeff! I'm interested in your perspective on the 5E "Adventure Path" rehash. How are these materials piss-poor in your view? What aspects have disappointed you so thoroughly?
Secondly, what do you think WOTC did so poorly with Saltmarsh? What should they have done to improve and make a better Saltmarsh?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Put simply, most of the 5E APs,are previous ideas (already done to death through the editions) with a twist and planted into the Forgotten Realms. Dragonlance. Giants series. Ravenloft. Temple of Elemental Evil. Vault of the Drow, etc. Same old villains and tropes, up the Epic-ness.
As for Saltmarsh i particular- essentially they have decided to ignore a bunch of GH canon and moreso than cannon, just verisimilitude based on the "laws of the setting" I discussed this at length elsewhere, so I'll just C&P something from the discussion I had over at ODD74, when someone said the book was focused on Saltmarsh itself, and not necc GH proper.
QuoteThis is absolutely true, but the book is very much about a town in the world of GH, and talks quite a bit things that are uniquely Greyhawk
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located) and it's King.
The Scarlet Brotherhood.
The Sea Princes
The Greyhawk Wars
Greyahwk Deities like Obad-Hai
Many major geographical areas (hool marshes for example)
As an example of bad- we have this gem
We have a Tiefling running around town. Wait, what?
Hard stop.
A Tiefling running around Saltmarsh?
In a setting that fought a horrific major war against an Evil demigod and his legions of demons.
Demons which another major NPC of the setting had banished through the use of a major artifact. This drastically reduced the power of the evil demi god's hold in a large chunk of the setting Which allowed the good nations of the setting to re-take and re-settle areas. Millions of innocents died in just this part of entire world conflict and these nations pledged eternal war on the evil demigod.
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located), a good nation was allied against that Demigod through it's pact with other nations. And fought it's own battles in the war.
This Tiefling is in Saltmarsh, selling (cursed) magic items and in turn buying FISH for the Demigod.
FISH To send back to the Demigod's nation.
Even if we totally ignore the fact that the evil demigod's nation is 1000s of miles away and not easily and directly reached by land or waterway.... we'll also have to ignore that the evil demi god's capital lies upon the 2nd largest body of freshwater on the continent..
Oh, we will also have to ignore that the evil demigod's northern border is a vast ocean...
So ignoring all those irrelevant facts...
How would a Tiefling, especially one who is depicted as very demonic, manage to get all that fish back and forth navigating the waterways through 1000s of miles through the good nations that fought against her master without getting her flipping head chopped off by any number of people who have pledged to destroy that demigod and all involved?
Crap design work.
It's the same type of idiocy that placed a Tiefling in Hommlett hanging around in the open and up to no good in the 4E conversion. WTF.
Yes it's just a stupid game about make believe elves and faeries. But at least have some respect for verisimilitude of the creator's own god bless-ed setting. It's as bad as Disney Star Wars. I can't tell if WOTC is stupid, lazy, ignorant or all three combined when it comes to campaign settings.
Hope that helps explain my feelings.
Quote from: S'mon on March 05, 2021, 10:58:15 AM
Quote from: JeffB on March 05, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
It's bad enough that I prefer using Pathfinder stuff converted to 5e, over most of the official 5e stuff. The official Roll20 conversion of 5e Forge of Fury I'm running is decent though, finally got nice maps - the maps in Tales from the Yawning Portal are godawful.
I've run FoF in a few games- 3.0, 13th Age, and S&W. It's probably the best of the standalone 3.X adventures from WOTC. Rich Baker (also the designer of the 5E Starter Set adventures) is one of the few WOTC (and late TSR) adventure writers whom I ever thought was worth a damn
Quote from: TobiasP on March 06, 2021, 01:59:18 AM
Thanks for the tips. I've started a 5th Campaign using the Storm Kind's Thunder adventure path and am finding it to be very railroady. Thinking of maneuvering the players elsewhere.
Alot of people say that of the Tyranny of Dragons set too. But its fairly open to how you approach it. Problem is it presents alot of stuff as if they should or even will happen. Jettison that and just use the stuff as a guide in case the party does follow the course, or adapt as they veer off.
Example. The PCs are "supposed" to join a merchant trek and spy on the cult. Instead my players continued theur guise from before of pretending to be cult members and followed this through all the way to the cults swamp base, and then beyond. If things happened that were "supposed to happen" then that was only because the players themselves veered the course that way before promptly going back off and proceeding in their own way.
Do that with any of the 5e modues when they start to sound too linear.
Quote from: JeffB on March 06, 2021, 10:48:01 AM
Quote from: SHARK on March 06, 2021, 05:34:01 AM
Quote from: JeffB on March 05, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
Greetings!
Hi there, Jeff! I'm interested in your perspective on the 5E "Adventure Path" rehash. How are these materials piss-poor in your view? What aspects have disappointed you so thoroughly?
Secondly, what do you think WOTC did so poorly with Saltmarsh? What should they have done to improve and make a better Saltmarsh?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Put simply, most of the 5E APs,are previous ideas (already done to death through the editions) with a twist and planted into the Forgotten Realms. Dragonlance. Giants series. Ravenloft. Temple of Elemental Evil. Vault of the Drow, etc. Same old villains and tropes, up the Epic-ness.
As for Saltmarsh i particular- essentially they have decided to ignore a bunch of GH canon and moreso than cannon, just verisimilitude based on the "laws of the setting" I discussed this at length elsewhere, so I'll just C&P something from the discussion I had over at ODD74, when someone said the book was focused on Saltmarsh itself, and not necc GH proper.
QuoteThis is absolutely true, but the book is very much about a town in the world of GH, and talks quite a bit things that are uniquely Greyhawk
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located) and it's King.
The Scarlet Brotherhood.
The Sea Princes
The Greyhawk Wars
Greyahwk Deities like Obad-Hai
Many major geographical areas (hool marshes for example)
As an example of bad- we have this gem
We have a Tiefling running around town. Wait, what?
Hard stop.
A Tiefling running around Saltmarsh?
In a setting that fought a horrific major war against an Evil demigod and his legions of demons.
Demons which another major NPC of the setting had banished through the use of a major artifact. This drastically reduced the power of the evil demi god's hold in a large chunk of the setting Which allowed the good nations of the setting to re-take and re-settle areas. Millions of innocents died in just this part of entire world conflict and these nations pledged eternal war on the evil demigod.
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located), a good nation was allied against that Demigod through it's pact with other nations. And fought it's own battles in the war.
This Tiefling is in Saltmarsh, selling (cursed) magic items and in turn buying FISH for the Demigod.
FISH To send back to the Demigod's nation.
Even if we totally ignore the fact that the evil demigod's nation is 1000s of miles away and not easily and directly reached by land or waterway.... we'll also have to ignore that the evil demi god's capital lies upon the 2nd largest body of freshwater on the continent..
Oh, we will also have to ignore that the evil demigod's northern border is a vast ocean...
So ignoring all those irrelevant facts...
How would a Tiefling, especially one who is depicted as very demonic, manage to get all that fish back and forth navigating the waterways through 1000s of miles through the good nations that fought against her master without getting her flipping head chopped off by any number of people who have pledged to destroy that demigod and all involved?
Crap design work.
It's the same type of idiocy that placed a Tiefling in Hommlett hanging around in the open and up to no good in the 4E conversion. WTF.
Yes it's just a stupid game about make believe elves and faeries. But at least have some respect for verisimilitude of the creator's own god bless-ed setting. It's as bad as Disney Star Wars. I can't tell if WOTC is stupid, lazy, ignorant or all three combined when it comes to campaign settings.
Hope that helps explain my feelings.
That's awful, but it's easily removed. Surely if that's the scale of additions it would be easier to just use the 5e version already converted?
Quote from: S'mon on March 05, 2021, 10:58:15 AM
Quote from: JeffB on March 05, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
It's bad enough that I prefer using Pathfinder stuff converted to 5e, over most of the official 5e stuff. The official Roll20 conversion of 5e Forge of Fury I'm running is decent though, finally got nice maps - the maps in Tales from the Yawning Portal are godawful.
My favorite style was Mike Schley's -- I wish they used his kind of mapping for all the adventures. (the kind in LMOP)
5e adventures are campaign modules. Not "adventure paths". We've been over this ground before.
I use AD&D, and B/X material all the time for my 5e games. I almost never run anything as-written but instead use pieces of adventures, maps from one, a plot from another, NPC's/Villans from a third source. All these I mix with later 5e published adventures.
For example: I am running a Ghosts of Saltmarsh game, but I have set the town in The Moonsheas in Forgotten Realms. The fat Iuz-worshipping tierfling is now a preistess of Umberlee, who harvests gear from shipwrecks.
I ran Sinister Secret and ditched the whole Lizard-Man vs. Sahuagin thing, and instead made the baddies the Slave Lords, now the PC's have a ship and are contending with the Pirate Lord Feetla and his crew. I stick in other adventures from "Ghosts", but sprinkle in the Naga from N1.
The ship from U1, the "Sea Ghost, actually had a ghost on her who was the former captain, murdered by his crew. He was predisposed to like the PC's since they killedthe muntineers, and told them where to find a map to the Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan.
Quote from: Omega on March 06, 2021, 10:32:42 PM
Alot of people say that of the Tyranny of Dragons set too. But its fairly open to how you approach it. Problem is it presents alot of stuff as if they should or even will happen. Jettison that and just use the stuff as a guide in case the party does follow the course, or adapt as they veer off.
Example. The PCs are "supposed" to join a merchant trek and spy on the cult. Instead my players continued theur guise from before of pretending to be cult members and followed this through all the way to the cults swamp base, and then beyond. If things happened that were "supposed to happen" then that was only because the players themselves veered the course that way before promptly going back off and proceeding in their own way.
Do that with any of the 5e modues when they start to sound too linear.
I did a very similar thing with the first half of Tyranny when running Hoard of the Dragon Queen. We zoomed way in and slowed down the timeline. We still did the caravan, and hit all of the locations, but it felt a lot more organic. I also brought horror elements into the cult. I want to say we were able to get 10-12 months out of Hoard.
Something like B/X or Lamentations would run really well with that module.
Quote from: TJS on March 07, 2021, 02:16:24 AM
Quote from: JeffB on March 06, 2021, 10:48:01 AM
Quote from: SHARK on March 06, 2021, 05:34:01 AM
Quote from: JeffB on March 05, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
When I ran 5E, other than the adventure in the Starter Set, I always used O/TSR modules-most of the 5E "Adventure path" rehash material is pretty piss-poor. ToA is OK, but they even screwed up Saltmarsh.
Greetings!
Hi there, Jeff! I'm interested in your perspective on the 5E "Adventure Path" rehash. How are these materials piss-poor in your view? What aspects have disappointed you so thoroughly?
Secondly, what do you think WOTC did so poorly with Saltmarsh? What should they have done to improve and make a better Saltmarsh?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Put simply, most of the 5E APs,are previous ideas (already done to death through the editions) with a twist and planted into the Forgotten Realms. Dragonlance. Giants series. Ravenloft. Temple of Elemental Evil. Vault of the Drow, etc. Same old villains and tropes, up the Epic-ness.
As for Saltmarsh i particular- essentially they have decided to ignore a bunch of GH canon and moreso than cannon, just verisimilitude based on the "laws of the setting" I discussed this at length elsewhere, so I'll just C&P something from the discussion I had over at ODD74, when someone said the book was focused on Saltmarsh itself, and not necc GH proper.
QuoteThis is absolutely true, but the book is very much about a town in the world of GH, and talks quite a bit things that are uniquely Greyhawk
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located) and it's King.
The Scarlet Brotherhood.
The Sea Princes
The Greyhawk Wars
Greyahwk Deities like Obad-Hai
Many major geographical areas (hool marshes for example)
As an example of bad- we have this gem
We have a Tiefling running around town. Wait, what?
Hard stop.
A Tiefling running around Saltmarsh?
In a setting that fought a horrific major war against an Evil demigod and his legions of demons.
Demons which another major NPC of the setting had banished through the use of a major artifact. This drastically reduced the power of the evil demi god's hold in a large chunk of the setting Which allowed the good nations of the setting to re-take and re-settle areas. Millions of innocents died in just this part of entire world conflict and these nations pledged eternal war on the evil demigod.
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located), a good nation was allied against that Demigod through it's pact with other nations. And fought it's own battles in the war.
This Tiefling is in Saltmarsh, selling (cursed) magic items and in turn buying FISH for the Demigod.
FISH To send back to the Demigod's nation.
Even if we totally ignore the fact that the evil demigod's nation is 1000s of miles away and not easily and directly reached by land or waterway.... we'll also have to ignore that the evil demi god's capital lies upon the 2nd largest body of freshwater on the continent..
Oh, we will also have to ignore that the evil demigod's northern border is a vast ocean...
So ignoring all those irrelevant facts...
How would a Tiefling, especially one who is depicted as very demonic, manage to get all that fish back and forth navigating the waterways through 1000s of miles through the good nations that fought against her master without getting her flipping head chopped off by any number of people who have pledged to destroy that demigod and all involved?
Crap design work.
It's the same type of idiocy that placed a Tiefling in Hommlett hanging around in the open and up to no good in the 4E conversion. WTF.
Yes it's just a stupid game about make believe elves and faeries. But at least have some respect for verisimilitude of the creator's own god bless-ed setting. It's as bad as Disney Star Wars. I can't tell if WOTC is stupid, lazy, ignorant or all three combined when it comes to campaign settings.
Hope that helps explain my feelings.
That's awful, but it's easily removed. Surely if that's the scale of additions it would be easier to just use the 5e version already converted?
I really hate how the quoting works here. Walls of text , and hard to snip pieces out. :(
That was just one example above There is a lot of added material- and some of it I like, but as far as Greyhawk verisimilitude goes, they failed in many other ways than that.
The person who started the thread on another board (whom I believe is a member here too) was wondering if it was worth his while to pick up GoS or just use his 1E module, and the convo bloomed from there. Classic Modules today is available for a few bucks on Drive Thru and has conversions for the entire U series without all the extraneous info re: the town, factions battling it out inside the town, altering the plot to incorporate the extra adventures from Dungeon Magazine, etc. So if you just want to play U1-3 using 5E, IMO that is the better route. FWIW , I am not a fan of U2 and U3, and instead have always used U1 as the lead in to the Slavers series of adventures.
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on March 07, 2021, 07:00:07 AM
I ran Sinister Secret and ditched the whole Lizard-Man vs. Sahuagin thing, and instead made the baddies the Slave Lords
Great minds...
Quote from: Omega on March 06, 2021, 10:32:42 PM
Quote from: TobiasP on March 06, 2021, 01:59:18 AM
Thanks for the tips. I've started a 5th Campaign using the Storm Kind's Thunder adventure path and am finding it to be very railroady. Thinking of maneuvering the players elsewhere.
Alot of people say that of the Tyranny of Dragons set too. But its fairly open to how you approach it. Problem is it presents alot of stuff as if they should or even will happen. Jettison that and just use the stuff as a guide in case the party does follow the course, or adapt as they veer off.
Example. The PCs are "supposed" to join a merchant trek and spy on the cult. Instead my players continued theur guise from before of pretending to be cult members and followed this through all the way to the cults swamp base, and then beyond. If things happened that were "supposed to happen" then that was only because the players themselves veered the course that way before promptly going back off and proceeding in their own way.
Do that with any of the 5e modues when they start to sound too linear.
That's what I've been doing so far. It's easy within individual adventures. But the overall campaign structure feels like it's all headed in one direction. So I'm going to try to branch things out a bit. The suggestion of having a map with a bunch of adventures on it makes sense. I haven't run D&D in ~10 years so this is all really helpful.
Quote from: S'mon on March 05, 2021, 03:51:45 AM
I've not used 5e D&D for a genre-shift like Stars Without Number. I thought about it, but probably better to use Esper Genesis if I wanted a full-on SF game. Esper Genesis is a nice conversion of 5e D&D to space opera (in the tone of Farscape or Guardians of the Galaxy, not so much military SF or Star Trek), the free quickstart alone has plenty of material for years of play.
I have idly thought about using core 5e D&D rules for an Urban Fantasy setting, Buffy the Vampire Slayer meets Dark Conspiracy 8) - probably just Human Tiefling & Half-Elf PCs to begin with, with a default activity of monster-hunt-of-the-week. It might not take much more work than setting up a regular D&D sandbox game, and I could use plenty of published D&D scenarios - especially those with a more horror tone - but right now I'm fully focused on Faerun Adventures.
Thanks for the recommendation for Esper Genesis. I was thinking of running something like Dune where it's half Fantasy and half Sci-Fi, so I think D&D could work but it's also very helpful to have a Sci-Fi rules set.
Have you seen any other "Genre shift" 5th edition content around that is worth using? Most of what I've seen is pure fantasy, or else not just not very good.
Quote from: TobiasP on March 07, 2021, 04:15:03 PM
The suggestion of having a map with a bunch of adventures on it makes sense. I haven't run D&D in ~10 years so this is all really helpful.
I think "have a map with a bunch of adventures on it" is always the best advice! Even in a linear setup, seeing the map will help free your mind to see other possibilities, other connections.
Quote from: TobiasP on March 07, 2021, 04:35:35 PM
Have you seen any other "Genre shift" 5th edition content around that is worth using? Most of what I've seen is pure fantasy, or else not just not very good.
Nothing much comes to mind.
Googling turns up this article that looks decent https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/579-adapting-other-genres-to-d-d
Edit: By contrast there are tons of great OSR genre-shift games, mostly S&W based. Sword & Planet, Urban Fantasy, SF, zombie horror, super-heroes et al in abundance.
Checking drivethru I found
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/258895/Spaceships-and-Starwyrms-Core-Sourcebook?src=hottest_filtered&filters=330_0_45326_0_0
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/193074/Mists-of-Akuma-Eastern-Fantasy-Noir-Steampunk-for-5E?src=hottest_filtered&filters=330_0_45326_0_0
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/270384/Entromancy-A-Cyberpunk-Fantasy-RPG?src=hottest_filtered&filters=330_0_45326_0_0
& sort-of https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/294821/The-Silence-of-Hollowind-PinUp-Adventures?src=hottest_filtered&filters=330_0_45326_0_0
Quote from: TobiasP on March 07, 2021, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: S'mon on March 05, 2021, 03:51:45 AM
I've not used 5e D&D for a genre-shift like Stars Without Number. I thought about it, but probably better to use Esper Genesis if I wanted a full-on SF game. Esper Genesis is a nice conversion of 5e D&D to space opera (in the tone of Farscape or Guardians of the Galaxy, not so much military SF or Star Trek), the free quickstart alone has plenty of material for years of play.
I have idly thought about using core 5e D&D rules for an Urban Fantasy setting, Buffy the Vampire Slayer meets Dark Conspiracy 8) - probably just Human Tiefling & Half-Elf PCs to begin with, with a default activity of monster-hunt-of-the-week. It might not take much more work than setting up a regular D&D sandbox game, and I could use plenty of published D&D scenarios - especially those with a more horror tone - but right now I'm fully focused on Faerun Adventures.
Thanks for the recommendation for Esper Genesis. I was thinking of running something like Dune where it's half Fantasy and half Sci-Fi, so I think D&D could work but it's also very helpful to have a Sci-Fi rules set.
Have you seen any other "Genre shift" 5th edition content around that is worth using? Most of what I've seen is pure fantasy, or else not just not very good.
I'm a fan of Ultramodern5: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/302992/Ultramodern5-REDUX-5th-Edition
Quote from: TobiasP on March 07, 2021, 04:35:35 PM
Have you seen any other "Genre shift" 5th edition content around that is worth using? Most of what I've seen is pure fantasy, or else not just not very good.
There was a now deleted WOTC forum thread on converting Gamma World to 5e.
There is also an incomplete UA article over on WOTC for an Urban Arcana setting conversion. A friend used it a little and is still hoping for more some day.
Probably would not be too hard to convert the original Buck Rogers RPG to 5e as it was pseudo-cross compatible with 2e and Gamma World at the time.
Quote from: JeffB on March 06, 2021, 10:48:01 AM
As for Saltmarsh i particular- essentially they have decided to ignore a bunch of GH canon and moreso than cannon, just verisimilitude based on the "laws of the setting" I discussed this at length elsewhere, so I'll just C&P something from the discussion I had over at ODD74, when someone said the book was focused on Saltmarsh itself, and not necc GH proper.
QuoteThis is absolutely true, but the book is very much about a town in the world of GH, and talks quite a bit things that are uniquely Greyhawk
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located) and it's King.
The Scarlet Brotherhood.
The Sea Princes
The Greyhawk Wars
Greyahwk Deities like Obad-Hai
Many major geographical areas (hool marshes for example)
As an example of bad- we have this gem
We have a Tiefling running around town. Wait, what?
Hard stop.
A Tiefling running around Saltmarsh?
In a setting that fought a horrific major war against an Evil demigod and his legions of demons.
Demons which another major NPC of the setting had banished through the use of a major artifact. This drastically reduced the power of the evil demi god's hold in a large chunk of the setting Which allowed the good nations of the setting to re-take and re-settle areas. Millions of innocents died in just this part of entire world conflict and these nations pledged eternal war on the evil demigod.
Keoland (where Saltmarsh is located), a good nation was allied against that Demigod through it's pact with other nations. And fought it's own battles in the war.
This Tiefling is in Saltmarsh, selling (cursed) magic items and in turn buying FISH for the Demigod.
FISH To send back to the Demigod's nation.
Even if we totally ignore the fact that the evil demigod's nation is 1000s of miles away and not easily and directly reached by land or waterway.... we'll also have to ignore that the evil demi god's capital lies upon the 2nd largest body of freshwater on the continent..
Oh, we will also have to ignore that the evil demigod's northern border is a vast ocean...
So ignoring all those irrelevant facts...
How would a Tiefling, especially one who is depicted as very demonic, manage to get all that fish back and forth navigating the waterways through 1000s of miles through the good nations that fought against her master without getting her flipping head chopped off by any number of people who have pledged to destroy that demigod and all involved?
Crap design work.
It's the same type of idiocy that placed a Tiefling in Hommlett hanging around in the open and up to no good in the 4E conversion. WTF.
Yes it's just a stupid game about make believe elves and faeries. But at least have some respect for verisimilitude of the creator's own god bless-ed setting. It's as bad as Disney Star Wars. I can't tell if WOTC is stupid, lazy, ignorant or all three combined when it comes to campaign settings.
Hope that helps explain my feelings.
This is exactly why I disliked it as well. It's as if the folks at WotC have never actually played the game before... They certainly have no regard for established lore.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on March 07, 2021, 02:47:41 AM
My favorite style was Mike Schley's -- I wish they used his kind of mapping for all the adventures. (the kind in LMOP)
Mike Schley's maps are excellent!
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on March 07, 2021, 07:00:07 AM
I use AD&D, and B/X material all the time for my 5e games. I almost never run anything as-written but instead use pieces of adventures, maps from one, a plot from another, NPC's/Villans from a third source. All these I mix with later 5e published adventures.
For example: I am running a Ghosts of Saltmarsh game, but I have set the town in The Moonsheas in Forgotten Realms. The fat Iuz-worshipping tierfling is now a preistess of Umberlee, who harvests gear from shipwrecks.
I ran Sinister Secret and ditched the whole Lizard-Man vs. Sahuagin thing, and instead made the baddies the Slave Lords, now the PC's have a ship and are contending with the Pirate Lord Feetla and his crew. I stick in other adventures from "Ghosts", but sprinkle in the Naga from N1.
The ship from U1, the "Sea Ghost, actually had a ghost on her who was the former captain, murdered by his crew. He was predisposed to like the PC's since they killedthe muntineers, and told them where to find a map to the Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan.
Excellent! I have been doing this as well for a long time.
When I started my (then) teens on D&D, they of course wanted to learn 5e so they could play with their friends. But the first adventure I ran was literally the Haunted Keep from the back of Moldvay's Basic D&D...
Quote from: Brigman on March 16, 2021, 02:25:21 PM
When I started my (then) teens on D&D, they of course wanted to learn 5e so they could play with their friends. But the first adventure I ran was literally the Haunted Keep from the back of Moldvay's Basic D&D...
That Keep, and KotB have existed in my world through every edition of D&D to this day, save 4th.
Quote from: Samsquantch on March 16, 2021, 02:29:31 PM
Quote from: Brigman on March 16, 2021, 02:25:21 PM
When I started my (then) teens on D&D, they of course wanted to learn 5e so they could play with their friends. But the first adventure I ran was literally the Haunted Keep from the back of Moldvay's Basic D&D...
That Keep, and KotB have existed in my world through every edition of D&D to this day, save 4th.
So... every edition of D&D...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 16, 2021, 05:43:34 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on March 16, 2021, 02:29:31 PM
Quote from: Brigman on March 16, 2021, 02:25:21 PM
When I started my (then) teens on D&D, they of course wanted to learn 5e so they could play with their friends. But the first adventure I ran was literally the Haunted Keep from the back of Moldvay's Basic D&D...
That Keep, and KotB have existed in my world through every edition of D&D to this day, save 4th.
So... every edition of D&D...
Save for OD&D and 4th I have utilized them and carried them forward in my campaign world.
Running OSR modules with 5E: my 6 players are 60 hours / 5-6 levels into the Dwimmermount megadungeon using mostly-by-the-book 5e. Since we started with first level characters entering the first level of the mountain I weakened the kobolds & orcs and reduced the gold piles, but kept all the silver/copper horde sizes intact, *on that level*; I've generally and reduced magic weapon + by one; everything else has been a straight replacement with the 5E monster manual & treasure tables equivalent, or a rough hack from some old-edition stats, not changing monster quantities at all. It's been working very well for us - nobody's died, but plenty of characters have been knocked out, and the party has a *lot* of healing capability and generally cautious play - except for the elf evocation wizard.
Tonight we return to a situation that risks character death, although the players don't know that yet. I'm looking forward to seeing whether how much peril they end up in and how they handle it.
Quote from: Naburimannu on April 13, 2021, 05:12:34 AM
Running OSR modules with 5E: my 6 players are 60 hours / 5-6 levels into the Dwimmermount megadungeon using mostly-by-the-book 5e. Since we started with first level characters entering the first level of the mountain I weakened the kobolds & orcs and reduced the gold piles, but kept all the silver/copper horde sizes intact, *on that level*; I've generally and reduced magic weapon + by one; everything else has been a straight replacement with the 5E monster manual & treasure tables equivalent, or a rough hack from some old-edition stats, not changing monster quantities at all. It's been working very well for us - nobody's died, but plenty of characters have been knocked out, and the party has a *lot* of healing capability and generally cautious play - except for the elf evocation wizard.
Tonight we return to a situation that risks character death, although the players don't know that yet. I'm looking forward to seeing whether how much peril they end up in and how they handle it.
+1 weapons are Uncommon in 5e so pretty cheap & cheerful. For conversion BX > 5e I generally keep weapon pluses as-is. For conversion of BECMI, AD&D and 3e I use:
+1> +1
+2, +3 > +2
+4, +5 > +3
In a system like 4e or 1e-with-UA where +6 weapons appear, I'd consider converting them as +4 since that's 'legal' for a Legendary per the 5e DMG.
Quote from: Naburimannu on April 13, 2021, 05:12:34 AM
Running OSR modules with 5E: my 6 players are 60 hours / 5-6 levels into the Dwimmermount megadungeon using mostly-by-the-book 5e. Since we started with first level characters entering the first level of the mountain I weakened the kobolds & orcs and reduced the gold piles, but kept all the silver/copper horde sizes intact, *on that level*; I've generally and reduced magic weapon + by one; everything else has been a straight replacement with the 5E monster manual & treasure tables equivalent, or a rough hack from some old-edition stats, not changing monster quantities at all. It's been working very well for us - nobody's died, but plenty of characters have been knocked out, and the party has a *lot* of healing capability and generally cautious play - except for the elf evocation wizard.
Tonight we return to a situation that risks character death, although the players don't know that yet. I'm looking forward to seeing whether how much peril they end up in and how they handle it.
Do you use standard 5e XP? I find it seems to work fine in old school adventure conversions; I give a bunch of XP per treasure and other discoveries too. Eg in last night's session the PC group of 10 characters, mostly level 3-4, pretty much cleared out the top level of my Underhall dungeon, they each got 160 monster XP and 150 treasure XP - 50 for the obvious goblin hoard in the locked chest, 100 for the hidden
Chimes of Opening (sacred to an evil NPC faction that has been looking for them) which the Elf Druid PC found by searching through the mucky filth at the bottom of a water trough despite my attempts to discourage "But you'll get all muddy!" ;D So far though they've missed another similarly hidden cache beneath a filthy slime pool that was the lair of some grey oozes; I would have given +50 XP for that.
Quote from: Naburimannu on April 13, 2021, 05:12:34 AM
Running OSR modules with 5E: my 6 players are 60 hours / 5-6 levels into the Dwimmermount megadungeon using mostly-by-the-book 5e. Since we started with first level characters entering the first level of the mountain I weakened the kobolds & orcs
I use a lot of CR 1/4 Pig Orcs IMC:
Pig Orc GuardCR 1/4 (50 XP) PB +2
AC 14/16 (ringmail or scale, shield) HP 13 (2d8+4)
ST +2 DE +0 CO +2 IN -1 WI +0 CH -1
Battle Axe or Longsword ATT: +4 Damage: 1d8+2
Lance (long spear) (2h) ATT+4 Damage 1d12+2, reach 10', disadvantage within 5'
Javelin (4) ATT +4 Damage 1d6+2 range 30'/120'
Aggressive: As a Bonus Action, the orc can move up to its speed toward a Hostile creature that it can see.
I did do some CR 0 kobold mook stats but have not used them, I kinda like the very deadly 5e kobold.
Kobold MookCR 0 (10 XP) PB +2
AC 10/12 w shield HP 3 (1d6-1)
ST -3 DE +0 CO -1 IN -1 WI -2 CH -2
Dagger (1h) or kobold spear (1h): Melee Weapon Attack: +2, Hit: 2 (1d4) piercing damage. Spear does 1d6 2-handed.
Sling (2h loading): Ranged Weapon Attack: +2, range 30/120 ft., one target. Hit: 2 (1d4) bludgeoning damage.
Sunlight Sensitivity: While in sunlight, the kobold has disadvantage on Attack rolls, as well as on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
Pack Tactics: The kobold has advantage on an Attack roll against a creature if at least one of the kobold's allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't Incapacitated.
S'mon, I think it was your pig-orcs I used - thank you! - as well as similarly simplified Kobolds. (The players started off befrending the kobolds, then got into a bit of a scuffle when they were in a three-way standoff with the Five Delvers and a band of kobolds, then went genocidal when they added a dwarf and a gnome to the party.)
For XP, I give stock combat XP divided by player count for fighting, reduced amounts for negotiations, but also XP for finding caches, discovering and going through connections between levels, rescuing prisoners, and discovering and understanding secrets in the dungeon. I think long term it's working out to about 50/50 for interaction vs exploration. (XP for treasure is proportional to depth / hazard, not treasure size, which is probably blunting things.)
Last night's notes:
- Lawful Good characters lying to and then surprising and slaughtering a bunch of bullywugs makes me wonder, although they did know that these bullywugs were demon-worshippers.
- 5e Minotaurs seem to be a lot stronger than expected by that adventure; twice as many hp as they had in third edition means a six-minotaur patrol is a serious TPK threat. The party met them at a bottleneck and negotiated a retreat before anyone got hurt. This is the first time since first level we've had a difficulty mismatch. (The players who showed up that night brought a well-armoured paladin + fighter frontline and a cleric + artificer behind them, and minotaurs aren't very accurate, so they might have managed a violent standoff in the doorway, but the cleric was low on spells.)
- I really am not comfortable running rules-as-written the 5e Detect Magic & Identify spells when the world is full of non-standard magic that doesn't necessarily fit into a defined spell from a defined school.
- Some of my players like inventory management / dungeon logistics, others really, really don't; it's lucky for us that it was during the last bit of the night that they realised they'd found more loot than their bag of holding can contain.
On magic items: I tuned down a couple of bare +1 weapons or armour found on the first level into adamantium, but it's more a practice of turning +1/+3 or +2/+3 weapons (e.g. the sentient sword Dwimmersmite) into +1/+2.
Quote from: Naburimannu on April 14, 2021, 04:35:46 AM
5e Minotaurs seem to be a lot stronger than expected by that adventure; twice as many hp as they had in third edition means a six-minotaur patrol is a serious TPK threat.
I think that would have been equally true in BX/LL though. I remember the Stonehell minotaur battles, yes it really came down to if they could hit or not, especially on a charge. Barbarians (with shield) & Eldritch Knights (with
Shield!) are good for PC front rank in 5e. :)
Quote from: Naburimannu on April 14, 2021, 04:35:46 AM- I really am not comfortable running rules-as-written the 5e Detect Magic & Identify spells when the world is full of non-standard magic that doesn't necessarily fit into a defined spell from a defined school.
That's come up a couple of times in my games. I have a player that loves using Detect Magic as much as possible. But what, for example, would be the school of magic on a bag of holding?
I've been mostly hand-waving it.
Quote from: TobiasP on March 07, 2021, 04:35:35 PM
Have you seen any other "Genre shift" 5th edition content around that is worth using? Most of what I've seen is pure fantasy, or else not just not very good.
Hellscapes uses the 5e mechanics to do post-apocalypse gaming. It's a great toolkit. I'm prepping a game for that right now. You have to create your own setting and adventures, but I prefer to do that anyway.
Quote from: mightybrain on May 08, 2021, 05:38:48 PM
Quote from: Naburimannu on April 14, 2021, 04:35:46 AM- I really am not comfortable running rules-as-written the 5e Detect Magic & Identify spells when the world is full of non-standard magic that doesn't necessarily fit into a defined spell from a defined school.
That's come up a couple of times in my games. I have a player that loves using Detect Magic as much as possible. But what, for example, would be the school of magic on a bag of holding?
I've been mostly hand-waving it.
Conjuration for sure. Floating Disk and the ridiculous Mansion are as well.
As is the Bag of Devouring...one of my all time favorites.
What are some good old adventures to run in 5e anyway?
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on May 09, 2021, 01:26:14 AM
What are some good old adventures to run in 5e anyway?
Quite a few of the early A and BX ones are fairly solid. As are several of the O ones from the few have gotten to look at.
They range all over the place in style and tone.
Also a few 3e modules are good. Personal favorite is the Darkness Gathering trilogy. Also some of the Spelljammer modules are rather fun too.