Quote from: gleichman;650651I agree with them.

.

If you weren't playing with every rule published for AD&D in the books, then you weren't playing AD&D?


That's buckets of stupid.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;650654If you weren't playing with every rule published for AD&D in the books, then you weren't playing AD&D?


That's buckets of stupid.

I see you two gentlemen are yet to make your acquaintances. Have a pleasant evening.

Quote from: gleichman;650651I agree with them.




My experience is the reverse. The old days consisted of wargamers who took the rules very seriously indeed, while what you are calling 'casual' players were completely unseen until the last decade or two.

It seems you missed the period between 1980 and 1986 when D&D's popularity grew tenfold, mainly by attracting hundreds of thousands of 10-15-year-olds. Not a lot of 11 year old wargamers in 1981.

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;650569This is all going against one of the points in the primer though since you are using a character ability in rolling a die to determine the result of the jump rather than having the player's skill at jumping be the determinant factor on rather or not they can make jumps or not.

Not sure where you're getting that, especially if you actually meant "player's skill."  A player's physical abilities don't translate to their PC. Hence, using the dice to adjudicate, when there's a chance of failure. I have no doubt that Matt Finch never meant to suggest otherwise.

Quote from: Haffrung;650656It seems you missed the period between 1980 and 1986 when D&D's popularity grew tenfold, mainly by attracting hundreds of thousands of 10-15-year-olds. Not a lot of 11 year old wargamers in 1981.

Not to mention, wargames were not played in the monolithic fashion Brian Gleichman seems to imply. There were different types of wargames, and amongst them, in miniatures wargaming, specifically, formal rules sets (which were really more of a bunch of house rules from this or that referee typed and retyped and xeroxed over and over and tweaked at every table they touched than anything else) very much implied the ultimate role of the referee as such, that is, changing rules appropriately according to game circumstances, filling in the gaps where they needed to be filled, and so on. This is this specific tradition of refereeing which was passed on to Chainmail, and obviously from there, D&D.

Quote from: Rincewind1;650655I see you two gentlemen are yet to make your acquaintances. Have a pleasant evening.

Not to mention, he said "D&D", which covers all editions.  I anxiously await the rules in Moldvay's Basic set that infer a requirement of a grid to play.

Quote from: Haffrung;650656It seems you missed the period between 1980 and 1986 when D&D's popularity grew tenfold, mainly by attracting hundreds of thousands of 10-15-year-olds. Not a lot of 11 year old wargamers in 1981.

Ah yes, the children. I see they haven't grown up yet either.

Quote from: gleichman;650670Ah yes, the children. I see they haven't grown up yet either.

I see your Darth Protractor persona finally makes a return. Welcome home.

Quote from: Benoist;650661Not to mention, wargames were not played in the monolithic fashion Brian Gleichman seems to imply. There were different types of wargames, and amongst them, in miniatures wargaming, specifically, formal rules sets (which were really more of a bunch of house rules from this or that referee typed and retyped and xeroxed over and over and tweaked at every table they touched than anything else) very much implied the ultimate role of the referee as such, that is, changing rules appropriately according to game circumstances, filling in the gaps where they needed to be filled, and so on. This is this specific tradition of refereeing which was passed on to Chainmail, and obviously from there, D&D.

Indeed, these were the people I started gaming with. And they took the rules very seriously indeed. Formal house rules are *rules* you know. Treated every bit as important and consistently as the published ones (except for those they replaced).

It was here that all the gaps of original D&D started to be filled in, until that crowd (at least in my part of the world) abandoned D&D for games that didn't need so much filler.

Quote from: Rincewind1;650671I see your Darth Protractor persona finally makes a return. Welcome home.

I've been sitting here on this thread watching you and others insult gamers of my style for post after post. It's time to return the favor.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;650547And I'm saying they cannot make decisions from the PoV of a character without being aware of the rules to the specific RPG system.

And I'm saying that's not the case with the games I play, it wasn't the case with the first rpg on the market, and I would say is a reflection of a bad system or a storygame.

Quote from: gleichman;650672Indeed, these were the people I started gaming with. And they took the rules very seriously indeed. Formal house rules are *rules* you know. Treated every bit as important and consistently as the published ones (except for those they replaced).

Then why are you insisting that people like me are "not playing D&D" and "do not use any rules"? What is it in you that makes you interpret these sorts of things as complete absolutes, all-or-nothing kind of deals, when your own experience apparently should tell you otherwise?

Quote from: gleichman;650675I've been sitting here on this thread watching you and others insult gamers of my style for post after post. It's time to return the favor.

Really? That's what this is about?

Quote from: Benoist;650679Really? That's what this is about?

Are you shocked? Do you think an OCD type will let this stuff slide?

Quote from: gleichman;650675I've been sitting here on this thread watching you and others insult gamers of my style for post after post. It's time to return the favor.

I see you are going full

on us today. First of all, since when is a "dissenting" opinion an insult? Second of all, I actually am the middle of the issue - I like when players know the basics of the rules, but I also favour the notion of rule 0. The most important thing to me is when the GM is consistent with the rulings. And I do believe that house rules should be announced - I never bother hiding them from my players, unless they are a surprise house rule (such as Chaos points in Warhammer, for example).

But we've been over this before. You are one of the most condescending assholes on this site, which is an achievement in itself, thought not the kind I'd show a trophy on my wall. You pretend to be the beaten minority, when you openly seek out conflict and insult others.

Let's get this over with and just say that everyone who does not play like you has a kid's imagination, you miser.