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RPGs with good social combat systems?

Started by Archangel Fascist, August 13, 2013, 02:23:59 AM

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Jason Coplen

#15
August 13, 2013, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;680932:rolleyes:

Then the answer is NONE. Social combat systems are for the weak of mind and socially inept. They corrupt our children and weaken the resolve of our allies.

LOL Classic. This is better than anything I can think of to that effect.
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James Gillen

#16
August 14, 2013, 01:50:25 AM
Quote from: jhkim;680847Agreed that BW feels like a courtroom.  On the other hand, that is a step up from some social combat systems that feel like physical combat.  

FATE, for example, treats social interaction in the same way as physical combat in games like Dresden Files.  I tried using the social combat rules a few times, but gave up on them.  One issue is the effect of having an advantage in numbers.  For a simple skill roll or other action, numbers don't add up linearly - i.e. to pick a lock, it doesn't add that much if anything for the thief to have the fighter and wizard helping.  However, in combat numbers add linearly.  Thus, a crowd who aren't particularly socially skilled can mob and wear down a skilled diplomat.  That didn't work for me and made it a problem to set up any social conflicts.  

It works well enough for RPG.net.

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Kashirigi

#17
August 14, 2013, 11:04:24 AM
Although FATE doesn't work for everybody, sometimes even for people that like it, I've found Diaspora's social combat rules to be interesting:

http://www.vsca.ca/Diaspora/diaspora-srd.html#social-combat

Noclue

#18
August 14, 2013, 08:07:39 PM Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 08:10:33 PM by Noclue
I really likeBurning Wheel's duel of wits. It's felt like a courtroom when that fit, or like two friends arguing over the right course of action, or two rivals for the love of another having a yelling match/fist fight.

Brad J. Murray

#19
August 14, 2013, 08:33:26 PM
Quote from: Kashirigi;681259Although FATE doesn't work for everybody, sometimes even for people that like it, I've found Diaspora's social combat rules to be interesting:

http://www.vsca.ca/Diaspora/diaspora-srd.html#social-combat

We had some incredibly fun sessions with it during playtest, but the best ones were a lot more abstract than "I try to convince the king his brother's a dick." Broad political intrigue, a murder mystery, a research program... like that. The characters aren't always (or usually even) central when it works best, which is how we avoid the company of newbs wearing down an expert.

Noclue

#20
August 16, 2013, 01:59:18 AM
Quote from: jhkim;680847Thus, a crowd who aren't particularly socially skilled can mob and wear down a skilled diplomat.  That didn't work for me and made it a problem to set up any social conflicts.  

That's what zone attacks are for. That and a stunt that gives the diplomat the ability to shrug off social consequences during an argument.

RPGPundit

#21
August 17, 2013, 03:25:20 AM
Social Combat in Amber (or Lords of Olympus) is awesome. Ditto for D&D (or Arrows of Indra).  I love that its extremely freeform.

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#22
August 17, 2013, 03:41:18 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;682270Social Combat in Amber (or Lords of Olympus) is awesome. Ditto for D&D (or Arrows of Indra).  I love that its extremely freeform.

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#23
August 18, 2013, 04:57:48 AM
Quote from: Nexus;682277What are they like?

Little something called "roleplaying", you might have heard of it...
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Nexus

#24
August 18, 2013, 05:23:05 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;682629Little something called "roleplaying", you might have heard of it...

 Why the attitude? I asked you a honest question.I haven't played D and D in almost 30 yrs so I dunno, it might have changed a bit from what I remember and I wasn't familiar with the other games you mentioned.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

LordVreeg

#25
August 18, 2013, 10:10:44 AM
Quote from: Nexus;682634Why the attitude? I asked you a honest question.I haven't played D and D in almost 30 yrs so I dunno, it might have changed a bit from what I remember and I wasn't familiar with the other games you mentioned.

He's just cranky that some people use rules to adjudicate different spheres of play than he does.  Som people prefer to have rules to adjudicate combat and to emulate certain skills and abilities, some people like to have rules to emulate diplomatic or social graces or persuasiveness.
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Nexus

#26
August 20, 2013, 07:47:48 AM
Quote from: LordVreeg;682655He's just cranky that some people use rules to adjudicate different spheres of play than he does.  Som people prefer to have rules to adjudicate combat and to emulate certain skills and abilities, some people like to have rules to emulate diplomatic or social graces or persuasiveness.

I'm definitely in the latter group. I really enjoy good social mechanics to round out the physical ones. It's a shame the subject has grown to be so divisive though. It's the new role playing vs roll playing.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

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 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

jibbajibba

#27
August 20, 2013, 08:02:13 AM
Seduction Rules from james bond 007

And despite what pundit says the attribute auction from Amber , as it establishes social relationships between the PCs as a side effect of character generation.
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Caesar Slaad

#28
August 20, 2013, 09:37:00 AM
I do like Diaspora's zone-based take on social combat in FATE, and find myself using it in other FATE games. It is a little DIY, but maybe it needs to be. I find it works better than the rigid "one size fits all" template approaches of Burning Empires (dunno if it's the same as BW, I don't own it) or Spycraft 2.0.
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Settembrini

#29
August 20, 2013, 10:22:31 AM
T5 ended my quest for such rules. Most impressive.
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