Quote from: Benoist;533949Setting v. System is a false dichotomy.

I'd say that a system can be  designed specifically to support a setting, and that can involve losses  in other areas.
Elric gets mentioned earlier; it for instance loses in balancedness (your favourite thing, I know) by letting you play beggars next to Melnibonean sorcerors.

Mostly though, I'm just trying to work out why there are lots of games out there like Shadowrun or Exalted.

Quote from: jeff37923;533966I disagree.

Some systems are better suited to some settings.

What would be an example of a system which is completely unsuited for a particular setting, which has been published?

Quote from: ggroy;533974What would be an example of a system which is completely unsuited for a particular setting, which has been published?

The d20 system when applied to almost any setting with modern firearms. The d20 system when applied to Star Wars was one which I found completely failed to emulate the action in the films or TV series.

Quote from: Benoist;533949Setting v. System is a false dichotomy.

Would you rather play 17th century swashbucklers using 2e AD&D and A Mighty Fortress, or Flashing Blades?

Quote from: Black Vulmea;534024Would you rather play 17th century swashbucklers using 2e AD&D and A Mighty Fortress, or Flashing Blades?

What kind of 17th century swashbucklers do I want?

Well - I recently adapted a system for a setting - MRQ2, which became Legend half way through the job, for a setting and published it (Pundit recently reviewed the result, it's in the Reviews section of this site).

The question of whether I could adapt any system to the setting is a difficult one. Partly because the setting evolved using earlier RQ versions, so D100/BRP/RQ is in the DNA. And I have not played any level or class-based system for some time - decades in fact; so that sort of approach is not in my mindset and I would not know where to start. So if I said it wouldn't work with Xe D&D, that's probably a result of my limitations, not the system's.

Having said that, I did briefly attempt to write this for MRQ1 and found that edition was so clunky and wrong that I was using the setting adaptation to try and correct the problems in the system and soon gave up. No such issues with MRQ2/Legend - it gave me a tool box that I found a pleasure to use to build what I was trying to achieve.

So there's probably no reason why you can't match a setting to any system, but it surely demands a really good (flexible) system and a really good grasp of it so you know how you can adapt it without breaking something. Undertanding the point of the setting you are using it for goes without saying.

I guess you can also deliberately set out to use a system RAW out of the box so it demands no thought on the part of the GM, but then it will just look like a worked up version of the 'implied' setting of the rules, I can't see how it would feel distinctive up against the system publisher's 'house' setting.

I would say Feng Shui but it has apparently some issues with the One Stat TO Rule Them All trope. Same with Qin.

Marvel and MSHAG?

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;533909a) can anyone thing of any games with both a great setting and a great system?

Chaosium Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer/Elric, Warhammer RPG (1e, especially), Marvel Superheroes (FASERIP).

Quote from: RandallS;534065Chaosium Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer/Elric, Warhammer RPG (1e, especially), Marvel Superheroes (FASERIP).

Are you just listing the games on your shelf?  What is so great about their settings and their systems?

Quote from: ggroy;533974What would be an example of a system which is completely unsuited for a particular setting, which has been published?

As much as I love it, I would have to say that the MERP system (essentially 'Rolemaster lite') was not the best fit for Middle-earth.

Quote from: Rincewind1;533913A) Elric, CoC...

Quote from: RandallS;534065Chaosium Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer/Elric...

Pendragon as well.

Chaosium always did remarkably good job in tweaking BRP for their licensed or historical settings.

Pity they only have CoC now (and the generic BRP rules, or course).

Quote from: misterguignol;533914Yeah, that would be my immediate list too.  (Though I'm not sure Elric is a great representative of the source material...but who cares, it's a great system and the setting material is presented well.)

I actually think that the Elric of Melnibone supplement for MRQII (now Legend) does a better job of reflecting what happens in the novels (specifically, the way magic works).  But Elric/SB also did a great job in capturing the spirit or 'ethos' of the setting.  And both are BRP-derived systems, of course.

Quote from: Akrasia;534075As much as I love it, I would have to say that the MERP system (essentially 'Rolemaster lite') was not the best fit for Middle-earth.

Yes. I would have liked MERP more if it had been a generic fantasy game.

Quote from: Akrasia;534075As much as I love it, I would have to say that the MERP system (essentially 'Rolemaster lite') was not the best fit for Middle-earth.

Despite some clunkers that could have been spotted by proper playtesting (take NOTE ffg), Decipher's Lord of the Rings rpg was a very good system with enjoyable playtesting and production values (though if'n you dislike movie stills you might disagree). MERP never spoke to me, though I remember seeing the ads back in the day from Games Workshop's import.

Quote from: Akrasia;534076Pendragon as well.

Chaosium always did remarkably good job in tweaking BRP for their licensed or historical settings.

Pity they only have CoC now (and the generic BRP rules, or course).

They did put out something for burp called Dragon Lines; Guardians of the Forbidden City, a wuxia setting.