Yeah, to write all that DW material, then talk shit about it is just classless. But that's IF it's the same person. Beyond that, flamers have paydays. If you don't have the "funds" to handle it, don't be a flamer.

Quote from: cranebump;1095595Yeah, to write all that DW material, then talk shit about it is just classless. But that's IF it's the same person. Beyond that, flamers have paydays. If you don't have the "funds" to handle it, don't be a flamer.

Not if he thinks others are doing a poor job but happens to have his own vision. It feels to me like cowardice more than anything....a fear he will be attacked for his own works if he reveals that he's the one complaining about the works of others.

Quote from: camazotz;1095599Not if he thinks others are doing a poor job but happens to have his own vision. It feels to me like cowardice more than anything....a fear he will be attacked for his own works if he reveals that he's the one complaining about the works of others.

OTOH, he's ripped into some DW products publicly before, and even got accused of bias on TBP because of it.

I backed the Red Book Kickstarter, so I've been tracking a lot of this story. The conclusions I keep coming to are that the evidence is present but largely circumstantial, Guyll denies it, and 'someone else in his circle used or passed on the screenshot' has, when all factors are taken into account, about as much plausibility as 'he has been running a covert blog that doesn't line up with his game work in several ways.' This, pending further information or analysis, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1095604OTOH, he's ripped into some DW products publicly before, and even got accused of bias on TBP because of it.

I backed the Red Book Kickstarter, so I've been tracking a lot of this story. The conclusions I keep coming to are that the evidence is present but largely circumstantial, Guyll denies it, and 'someone else in his circle used or passed on the screenshot' has, when all factors are taken into account, about as much plausibility as 'he has been running a covert blog that doesn't line up with his game work in several ways.' This, pending further information or analysis, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

True.

On a related note: Why is it every time I ever see something going on in the PbtA crowd and Dungeon World in particular they all seem to have serious issues?

Quote from: camazotz;1095606True.

On a related note: Why is it every time I ever see something going on in the PbtA crowd and Dungeon World in particular they all seem to have serious issues?

My theory: Dungeon World has such stripped-down barebones mechanics that any idiot can "hack" it and make their own terrible game in a weekend.  Making a game off of a more complex system like Savage Worlds takes actual work and time.

Quote from: tenbones;1095592I looked at the archive. I still don't know what the big deal is? Why not own it? There wasn't anything there I haven't seen posted here in some sentiment. Did he not think this wasn't going to happen? People are weird.

From experience these sorts never think its going to happen. Or if it does. They think their ready alibie of "it was someone else in the same area!" sorts of gags will fly. Or they think that they can just keep hiding behind their false front. White Wolf had at least two who would rabble rouse or spread disinformation under an moniker or posing as employees of TSR or WOTC way back for example.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1095604OTOH, he's ripped into some DW products publicly before, and even got accused of bias on TBP because of it.

I backed the Red Book Kickstarter, so I've been tracking a lot of this story. The conclusions I keep coming to are that the evidence is present but largely circumstantial, Guyll denies it, and 'someone else in his circle used or passed on the screenshot' has, when all factors are taken into account, about as much plausibility as 'he has been running a covert blog that doesn't line up with his game work in several ways.' This, pending further information or analysis, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Oh I can believe it. Its appallingly common in various venues. Why? I have no clue other than the age old one of using it as a covert platform to damage the competition. Money makes people crazy. Greed makes them sociopaths.

One publisher I worked with back in the 90s was pulling a two face tactic to damage competition. A major con manager was, and still is doing much the same. And another RPG publisher I used to be friends with turned out to be running multiple false fronts, one a hate group while posing as part of the group he was trying to destroy. Artists artists and more damn artists.

Omega might have nailed it. Using fake fronts on the internet to damage your competition would be brain dead easy.

It's why I've often wondered how many of the Outrage Brigade might actually be 4channers having a laugh.

AKA, the 2019 version of prank calls.

Quote from: camazotz;1095599Not if he thinks others are doing a poor job but happens to have his own vision. It feels to me like cowardice more than anything....a fear he will be attacked for his own works if he reveals that he's the one complaining about the works of others.

That's a reasonable conclusion, I think.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095781Omega might have nailed it. Using fake fronts on the internet to damage your competition would be brain dead easy.

It's why I've often wondered how many of the Outrage Brigade might actually be 4channers having a laugh.

AKA, the 2019 version of prank calls.

Oh I can guarantee you that some, possibly all, of these are deadly serious business moves to attack competition and/or promote their own product covertly. The lengths some have gone to is appalling really.

Sure there are some who are flat out hatemongers and I found out a former friend was going around forums inciting hate and violence towards certain groups. For the laughs. I have not spoken to him since and do not plan to ever again.

People let us reserved judgement until we actually have some fucking clue what is going on here.  Seriously I am hearing some absolutely stupid conspiracy theories and this shit has got to stop.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1095848People let us reserved judgement until we actually have some fucking clue what is going on here.  Seriously I am hearing some absolutely stupid conspiracy theories and this shit has got to stop.

Where? We've been mostly mulling over the dirty deeds of other groups while overall shrugging at the current event and applying a healthy dose of skepticism to the guys claim. Because we just had a month or two ago a designer claiming someone made mean posts using his computer. And here we have something similar. And then you wonder why anyone casts doubt?

At the same time take note most of us have taken the wait an see stance. It is suspicious. But weirder things have happened.

Personally. It reads too much like other stunts Ive had to deal with personally. Or seen in the process from the sidelines or the aftermath.

Quote from: Omega;1095881Where? We've been mostly mulling over the dirty deeds of other groups while overall shrugging at the current event and applying a healthy dose of skepticism to the guys claim. Because we just had a month or two ago a designer claiming someone made mean posts using his computer. And here we have something similar. And then you wonder why anyone casts doubt?

At the same time take note most of us have taken the wait an see stance. It is suspicious. But weirder things have happened.

Personally. It reads too much like other stunts Ive had to deal with personally. Or seen in the process from the sidelines or the aftermath.

It is just general stupidity really.  Hell I was made to look like a fool in the Travon Martin case because I honestly believed that George Zimmerman was guilty of stalking and assaulting people.  My perception of things was so bad I thought it happened in broad daylight.  Pretty stupid I know and yes I am sorry for the things I sad about George.  It was also the last time I actually gave any faith to TYT and the news media at large because they were dead set against the man.

Point is we don't know shit so we should just wait and see before we make any judgments.  Unless you want to look foolish like how I was when George Zimmerman was found not guilty.

Of course. But as said, the old "it was just by coincidence someone else in my town/house/whatever that did it! Honest!" gag has been played before in various iterations.

Another example is a few months ago we had a designer up and delete all his files and posts. Then later pop in and claim that it was really all the work of a mean co-worker who, got access to his computer, and had his passwords and logged into the site, and knew the site well enough to totally wipe his account? And yet the designer has been acting surly and uncommunicative, and has not restored any of the lost material. hmmmm.

And thats the most recent one.

Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Not really. And I doubt we will ever know one way or the other unless someone digs hard enough to either expose the real culprit, or expose the accused as two-faced. Its a win-win situation either way if it happens.

Um, there is always the option of just ignoring this stupid shit and, you know, moving on.