Quote from: thomden on April 20, 2021, 10:34:02 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 27, 2020, 03:20:49 PM
I have this book. I've read it several times. And it always leaves me wondering one thing.

Who in their right mind is going to run this or play this?

The only thing this has done is convince me that Icons is my future in superhero gaming. Not this.

May I humbly suggest Guardians?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/172576/Guardians?src=hottest_filtered

Guardians is a great game, it only needs a hack for non-powered (or almost) pulp vigilantes.

I hear you're the author of Warriors of the red planet? Know of any bestiary for ERB's Venus, Moon, Pellucidar? Or a list with the flora, fauna, sentients?

Good point. I'm working on a Companion book for Guardians, I'll put in a Non-Powered Vigilante.

Warriors of the Red Planet should have most of the creatures from Amtor and Pellucidar - though with slightly changed names to avoid any issues. If you notice any missing let me know!

I've just been reading a lot of Leigh Brackett lately and was thinking of combing through her work for more creatures to add.

Quote from: thomden on April 21, 2021, 05:12:10 AM
Good point. I'm working on a Companion book for Guardians, I'll put in a Non-Powered Vigilante.

Warriors of the Red Planet should have most of the creatures from Amtor and Pellucidar - though with slightly changed names to avoid any issues. If you notice any missing let me know!

I've just been reading a lot of Leigh Brackett lately and was thinking of combing through her work for more creatures to add.

Thanks! I'll read carefully the bestiary then.

I've got a few vigilante type classes worked, for White Box, let me know if you're interested in seeing them.

It turns out that Champions Now wasn't the original product pitched. That there was another new version of Champions pitched that was intended to be a more user-friendly version. That in the end, got rejected in favor of Champions Now.

They were charging the author of that previous pitch a $1000 licensing fee for the privilege of writing a new version of the game for them. And he actually had the money ready when they rejected him.

The author was fairly well known in the Hero System community. As he had written several books based on the line in the past. This wasn't someone untested. This is someone who knew what they were doing and had the credentials to back it up.

As a result, that author has gone to another company and is converting all of his straight-out owned books over to the new company's system.

So what do we have with Champions Now? A game the company doesn't support at all. Something I regard as a straight-up failure of a product. Something they Kickstarted and threw all of the money that was pledged away to produce.

The greed and stupidity at play here were staggering. They threw away a guaranteed success for something that never would succeed.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on April 21, 2021, 01:10:25 PM
The author was fairly well known in the Hero System community. As he had written several books based on the line in the past. This wasn't someone untested. This is someone who knew what they were doing and had the credentials to back it up.

Can you tell us who? And any details about the original idea?

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on April 21, 2021, 01:10:25 PM
It turns out that Champions Now wasn't the original product pitched. That there was another new version of Champions pitched that was intended to be a more user-friendly version. That in the end, got rejected in favor of Champions Now.

They were charging the author of that previous pitch a $1000 licensing fee for the privilege of writing a new version of the game for them. And he actually had the money ready when they rejected him.

...
So what do we have with Champions Now? A game the company doesn't support at all. Something I regard as a straight-up failure of a product. Something they Kickstarted and threw all of the money that was pledged away to produce.

The greed and stupidity at play here were staggering. They threw away a guaranteed success for something that never would succeed.

Epic Fail.

Hero/Champions is  dead.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you... There are fans out there who still play it, and you know a guy who, or are aware of this local scene that, blah blah blah blah...

Hey! Hero games even has a websites where you can buy product!

No one cares.

Because the people who own the HERO IP made sure of it.

If Hero games never published a new product in the future, no one would notice.

If they were to go bankrupt and disappear with no announcements; no one would think to ask about them.

No one is talking about what the next new hotness from hero games is going to be.

Because nobody gives a shit.

They have made themselves just that insignificant in the RPG hobby.

Quote from: Aglondir on April 21, 2021, 09:48:45 PM
Can you tell us who? And any details about the original idea?

Michael Surbrook. I spoke to him at a Q&A on Discord.

He didn't give details of what the original idea would be. And I didn't press the matter,

He said the HERO System is dead to him now. And I just wished him good luck.

Quote from: Jaeger on April 22, 2021, 12:25:26 AM

Hero/Champions is  dead.

Because nobody gives a shit.

They have made themselves just that insignificant in the RPG hobby.

I don't know much about Champions Now or the drama behind it. Champions is one those games that had a solid enough engine that it didn't really need new editions. Kinda like Runequest or Cthulhu in that way, I'm just as satisfied with the original 1st editions.

It's not like D&D that really needed new editions.

I will say I liked that quick start primer book for the Hero system they made back during 5th edition.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 21, 2021, 10:57:40 AM

I've got a few vigilante type classes worked, for White Box, let me know if you're interested in seeing them.

Cool, I could totally use that as a base. I'd make a few tweaks and give it some cool art. You can IM me if you want to write some content.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on April 22, 2021, 04:22:48 AM
Michael Surbrook. I spoke to him at a Q&A on Discord.

  That explains a few things, and Surbrook's definitely got the track record. If they're smart, Pinnacle Games will snatch him up to contribute to their Martial Arts Companion for Savage Worlds.

Quote from: thomden on April 22, 2021, 06:33:23 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 21, 2021, 10:57:40 AM

I've got a few vigilante type classes worked, for White Box, let me know if you're interested in seeing them.

Cool, I could totally use that as a base. I'd make a few tweaks and give it some cool art. You can IM me if you want to write some content.

Woooooooooooooooooo! Wait, what? Who me? Really?

Quote from: Jaeger on April 22, 2021, 12:25:26 AM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on April 21, 2021, 01:10:25 PM
It turns out that Champions Now wasn't the original product pitched. That there was another new version of Champions pitched that was intended to be a more user-friendly version. That in the end, got rejected in favor of Champions Now.

They were charging the author of that previous pitch a $1000 licensing fee for the privilege of writing a new version of the game for them. And he actually had the money ready when they rejected him.

...
So what do we have with Champions Now? A game the company doesn't support at all. Something I regard as a straight-up failure of a product. Something they Kickstarted and threw all of the money that was pledged away to produce.

The greed and stupidity at play here were staggering. They threw away a guaranteed success for something that never would succeed.

Epic Fail.

Hero/Champions is  dead.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you... There are fans out there who still play it, and you know a guy who, or are aware of this local scene that, blah blah blah blah...

Hey! Hero games even has a websites where you can buy product!

No one cares.

Because the people who own the HERO IP made sure of it.

If Hero games never published a new product in the future, no one would notice.

If they were to go bankrupt and disappear with no announcements; no one would think to ask about them.

No one is talking about what the next new hotness from hero games is going to be.

Because nobody gives a shit.

They have made themselves just that insignificant in the RPG hobby.

But the dead horse hasn't been beaten nearly enough...

Quote from: RandyB on April 22, 2021, 11:53:42 AM

But the dead horse hasn't been beaten nearly enough...

And it never will.

The beating of dead horses never gets old.

Making the Rubble Bounce is its own reward.

Quote from: Jaeger on April 22, 2021, 03:12:11 PM

Quote from: RandyB on April 22, 2021, 11:53:42 AM

But the dead horse hasn't been beaten nearly enough...

And it never will.

The beating of dead horses never gets old.

Making the Rubble Bounce is its own reward.

There's making the rubble bounce, which I endorse, and there's making more rubble out of the rubble because the rubble is not bouncing on its own.

Same friend whos a fan of the Hero System and has a fair amount of Hero and Champions material also has this so had a quick glance through.

First impression is that jesus christ theres alot of virtue signalling in this thing? Just at glances and stuff popping out and was not even looking for it or expecting it. Ron never struck me as a SJW type. Well that illusiions been ruthlessly dispelled. That said. Some of it does fit. The rest very does not.

That said theres some fair research and thought put into the book. This is not just some vanity project and at a guess Ron got the position by showing off what he knew or the ideas he had.

He actually gives some good advice that backgrounds are not that important and can be fleshed out later. Its the character here and now that often counts most. It is very similar to the advice I give in my books. Keep it simple at first and flesh it out as you go as needed. (unless of course you really like writing these things up. Then go to town!)

System-wise seems fairly along the Champions system far as can tell. I had to stop about half way through but looks like alot of thoughts on the genre. Some more than a bit off the mark. But at least he states clearly how he is approaching each element. Copious examples throughout which is a boon to anyone new to a system and wanting to see how its done.

Lots and lots of advice on how to create a character. Some of it a bit... odd. But a fair portion would be familliar to anyone who has played superhero RPGs like TSR's Marvel Superheroes which gives some similar frameworks.

Thats the impressions at a glance.

One thing of note. The book is big. But so is the font. This book is not a strain to read. But if you formatted it to older fonts and spacings I think it would clock in at about somewhere between 150 and 75 pages possibly.