For me it would be 2nd Edition Rolemaster - the version afterwards was weak and poor, and HARP just finished it off on a bad note.


Having their classic material available means someone at ICE saw sense, or they stumbled across some illegal PDFs and is selling those instead.

Quote from: AkrasiaOkay ... sorry.  :imsorry:

What I meant to say is that that module is criticised for being incompatible/inconsistent with core features of Shadow World.

Perhaps it was great, I don't know.  I just know that as a Shadow World module many people found it objectionable.

Nonetheless, I'm glad you had a good time with it.

No need to apologise old chap.

I found it a little odd that what some bloke (even the designer of Shadow World) had said could invalidate my own experiences with it. I'm not even saying that the material was necessarily of the highest quality, just that for whatever reason, my group just clicked with this campaign.

That info is interesting though, 'cos i didn't run the campaign in Shadow World. I transplanted the relevant areas to my own campaign world. So perhaps i just bypassed the bits that upset other people.

Quote from: Lawbag... Having their classic material available means someone at ICE saw sense, or they stumbled across some illegal PDFs and is selling those instead.

Well, ICE is selling 2e pdfs (I just downloaded the Character Law one to get a nostalgia hit).

The 'Classic' books -- aside from being available in print -- apparently will 'clean up' the presentation of the 2e rules a fair bit, and introduce some other options.  The details are vague, but it is clear that 'Classic' will not be simply a reprint.

I know I'm excited.  
:hyper:

Quote from: One Horse Town... That info is interesting though, 'cos i didn't run the campaign in Shadow World. I transplanted the relevant areas to my own campaign world. So perhaps i just bypassed the bits that upset other people.

Yeah, I think the claim that it is a 'Shadow World' adventure is what ticks people off (incl. the creator of SW).  It might be a great adventure, but apparently it is 'not SW' in nature.

I don't have the module myself.  I just know that it's one of a set of old SW modules that SW fans regularly criticise.

I still don't get the RMSS hate - though as I say I'm ignorant of the detailed changes made - it seems to me they cleaned up the post-companions RM2 quite a lot.  What is it that bothers people?

I think it bugged a lot of people when the skills were broken down into two parts; categories and specific skill bonuses. That greatly increased the bookeeping required when a character is created or advances in level. It seemed to be an attempt to implement the "similar skill" option in RMII. Truthfully, I rather prefer it to the RMII solution but it badly needed to be trimmed down in the raw number of skills they used and simplified to a single progression type. Many of them overlap, are rarely used or simply don't make a lot of sense.

In any case, I've run and played in long running campaigns of both RMII and RMSS and have fun with either system. They have slightly different feels to the way they play. When I want a lower level game, I prefer RMSS and when I want a higher level one I prefer RMII.

Excellent! RM has always been my favorite fantasy system. I'll definitely be snatching these up when they hit the racks.

Can someone provide a link (or list, if it's not too much trouble) to the diff between RMII and RMSS?

Thanks...

Whew! That's a tough one as I've never seen a compiled list of the differences. There are quite a few, far more than I can remember I'm sure, but here are some of more obvious ones:

Spells are learned in larger but still discrete chunks in RMII by spending development points for an increased chance to learn a "pick" on a list. You roll, and if you roll well enough you have learned that "pick" which could be up to ten spells at a shot. If you don't make the roll, tough noogies, try again next level. In RMSS you spend a known number of development points to learn a single spell level automatically, no roll required.

In RMII you roll a particular die (based on race) for additional hit points each time you buy a rank of body development. In RMSS you get a set amount based upon your race each time you buy a rank of body development. Overall, the end result is about the same if you roll about average. If you roll well, you will end up with more hit points in RMII for certain races.

The component of your skill score based upon your attributes is figured differently. In RMII, the portion coming from attributes is the *average* of two or three attribute bonuses. In RMSS it is the *sum* of the attribute bonuses (which will usually be smaller numbers).

Spell points are figured differently as well. In RMII, your spell points depend *entirely* on your governing stat. This means you will get 1, 2 or maybe 3 spell points per rank of spell point development you buy as long as your stat score for that realm is good enough. In RMSS you get a set number of points per rank based upon your realm and race. This usually works out to as many as 6 or 7 spell points per rank until you get over 10th level after which time it drops. The end result is you tend to have more inherent spell points in RMSS than RMII.

Most of the skills found in RMSS do not appear in the core rules of RMII, but can be found in Rolemaster Companion II. They are figured differently though, with RMSS skill totals being made up of two components, each which are purchased separately with development points. RMII skills are a single purchase for the same amount of increase as both RMSS skill parts put together.

Development points are figured slightly differently. In RMII, each of the development stats has a derived development point value depending upon how high the stat score is. You add up the various values (usually 0 to 10) and you get your total. In RMSS you simply average the development stats themselves to get the development point total. Basically you usually end up with far more development points in RMSS (but you need them as the skills are more expensive to compensate).

The combat round sequences are different as well. RMSS broke the sequence into three phases (snap, normal and deliberate actions). RMII used a simpler fire/move/fire type arrangement. Frankly, this is one area I think both systems could use improvement in.

There are a lot more differences I'm forgetting (not having the books in front of me), but I'm sure others can chime in with more.

What is the effect of all this? In my experience, characters have more skills and are more effective at lower levels using RMSS , but they "plateau out" more quickly than RMII does. You can end up with some really potent high level characters in RMII as compared to RMSS as a result, especially if you allow use of some of the companions material and optional rules.

Quote from: KenHR... very little in the way of support (adventures, settings....

I forgot to mention that The Guild Companion sometimes provides free adventures for ICE games.

Update: Apparently ICE will be releasing a pdf version of Rolemaster Classic Lite -- essentially, a 'stripped down' version of RMC (limited number of races and classes, simplified combat system, etc.; covering PC progression up to level 10).  

It's not clear yet whether this will be free or simply inexpensive, but it is a very good idea IMO.

Announcement here:
http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=6673606&postcount=229

Sweet!

Well, "Sweet!" as long as it's not all they're doing. A rerelease of the full 2nd edition is hopefully coming along afterwards.

Quote from: James McMurraySweet!

Well, "Sweet!" as long as it's not all they're doing. A rerelease of the full 2nd edition is hopefully coming along afterwards.

It is.  Character Law for RMC has already been released as a pdf, and paper copies will ship on the 13th.

Nice! Thanks for the heads up!