Has anyone played using these bad-boys?

I must confess, as they are available via pdf download from the ICE forums only, i've reached analysis paralysis from only a couple of 'light' read-throughs.

For people who thought that previous editions were too mechanic driven or laugh about "chart-master", well, you ain't seen nothing yet.

I like the ideas behind a lot of the revisions, but it really is sensory overload on a computer screen and i'm hoping that a not insignificant proportion of the material provided doesn't make it into a print edition. Creatures and Treasures is 800 pages long for goodness sake. Spell Law is well over 400 pages. Considering those two books plus Arms Law from 2nd edition probably added up to about 350 pages in total, it's mind-boggling.

I've been out of the loop since 2nd edition really (there have been about 20 editions since then! - well, alright, 4, i think if you count Classic as a distinct edition), so i really miss the delightfully under-powered, yet flavourful professions like the Seer or Astrologer. However, from my first impressions, SL is the least changed really, so it shouldn't be too hard to import their spell lists.

When all is said and done though, the material released is far too complex, even for Rolemaster. You don't even get to creature stats until nearly 400 pages of the C&T book!

What are your thoughts on the beta?

So hang on.

They went and made Rulemaster a LOT more complex?

WTF?

GRANT US EYES! GRANT US EYES! SO THAT WE MIGHT SEE!!

Haven't looked at it yet, but now I feel like I have to to see the glorious madness of making the RM books more biggerer.

The obligatory reaction:  I never felt that Rolemaster was all that complex, just extremely fiddly and cumbersome.  However, I don't think adding to it is a step in the right direction.  RM still has its fans.  They must be catering to this crowd rather than trying to win new converts.

Heh.

I'm still playing in a  long running 2nd ed game. Not really interested in the new iteration, and what the OP has posted terrifies me.

What I am more interested in would be a more streamlined version of RM, something that I could easily teach new players and keep moving quickly in play. Keep the class flexibility, provide a decent amount of skills (but not too many), winnow down the armory of weapon charts into broader weapon types, and make the colcurful crits operate on a bell curve. Something.

Maybe a rejigged version of MERP, but w/o the middle earth.

Quote from: saskganesh;903572Heh.

I'm still playing in a  long running 2nd ed game. Not really interested in the new iteration, and what the OP has posted terrifies me.

What I am more interested in would be a more streamlined version of RM, something that I could easily teach new players and keep moving quickly in play. Keep the class flexibility, provide a decent amount of skills (but not too many), winnow down the armory of weapon charts into broader weapon types, and make the colcurful crits operate on a bell curve. Something.

Maybe a rejigged version of MERP, but w/o the middle earth.

RM II is probably my favourite game. Dunno why, but it has always just clicked with me. I've always been able to gauge what parties can deal with much easier than any iteration of d&d.

But honestly, the C&T book for this beta is horrible with a capital arrgg!! They've basically decided to catagorise everything. There are about 7 million 'options' for building your own monsters, down to the smallest detail (which isn't necessary) and then once that exhaustive nonsense is out of the way, they get on with the actual stat blocks, which because what has come before is so complex is near indecipherable on the computer screen.

Truly, they could have detailed making your own monsters in 3 or 4 pages and at the same time kept the stat blocks easier to read.

Instead of 'buying' Acid Attack - Mouth or Hopping - Great for your beast just fucking give your beast an additional acid crit on a successful bite and the Leaping spell as a permanent effect. Oh, wait, that's pretty much what they've done, but with everything and over a couple hundred pages, instead of a few pages of advice.

Someone has got seriously over-eager with the current design.

Less isn't always more, but sometimes, more is only more.

Edit: Turns out that the thing i'm talking about is Talents, and they only run to 70 pages. Then there's about a zillion pages on monster descriptions before you get to the stat blocks.

Tone deaf I Sense Birth talent Flaw 1 5 -5/ tier -10/ tier Auto
Creature cannot perceive pitch and cannot sing or play instruments correctly. Apply Penalty to performance art: singing and play instrument.

Leaping: bouncing
Movement Other [Move, Bonus, Pace] 2 5 35' -10 Sprint 30 Movement
Creature is walking with large jumps, instead of strides. Its musculature and bone structure provide this gait is more energy efficient.

Leaping: great bounds
Movement Other [Move, Bonus, Pace] 5 20 80' -25 Sprint 80 Movement
Either using some magic, or terrible power in its legs, this being moves around using great bounds, up to Range.

Leaping: leap gait
Movement Other [Move, Bonus, Pace] 10 30' -5 Run 26 Movement
The creature has a specific mode of movement: it takes a few normal steps and then a larger step, not unlike a leap.

Leaping: leap gliding
Movement Other [Move, Bonus, Pace] 4 15 60' -20 Run 60 Movement
Being has wings that will allow it to glide. As an extra, it may make jumps, gaining Height for gliding Range. This is a very efficient way of movement.

Leaping: leaps
Movement Other [Move, Bonus, Pace] 3 10 40' -15 Sprint 40 Movement
The being possesses strong motor muscles and bones. It may jump 10' when moving around and up to Range when making a serious jump.

Leaping: Slow leaps
Movement Other [Move, Bonus, Pace] 0 5 0 20' 0 Run


WTF is that all about? 6 fucking entries for a leaping ability. It's like that for every conceivavble thing that you'll never want to use in a game.

I despair sometimes.

I adore Rolemaster and I've never had a bad game or bad group but 800 pages for the monster book?

Hell no, I can't get my players to learn FATE effectively much less take this time for that brute  and I don't have the  time for that many rules either.

On any topic regarding Rolemaster I reply with my standard answer.

The first time I sat down to a RM table, a fellow player gave me this piece of advice: "Whatever you do, don't run". During the heat of play I forgot this advice and I announced that my character runs. I got lucky and only fractured the character's ankle, and not anything serious like bashing his skull in... :rolleyes:

Needless to say that I am not interested in this newest version either.

Edit - In one of my RPG groups this game is known as "RuleMonster"

I always felt that Rolemaster was a game with some good ideas, and a lot of bad implementation. Looks like it will stay that way.

I was on the development team for the first year or so.  It was pitched to me as an honest attempt to unite the fan base.  Then they put the most rabid RM2 troll they could find in charge and he and his henchman had a prewritten draft and they used the discussions to practice shooting down any arguments.  Anyhow, I personally think the document was not a complete disaster when I stepped off in disgust but the changes made as they've put it to public playtest have completely destroyed the thing.  I don't even think the team leader would be happy with where things have gone.

In any case I went back to working on my own systems and only regretted the year I spent arguing with a brick wall who thinks personal attacks and insults are the way to run a committee.

For all that, I don't think the RMSS / RM2 is bridgeable.

And I don't think ICE is redeemable.

I first encountered RM as the original Arms Law, which when first published was clearly intended to be a bolt-on combat system for D&D. It was (and remains) a cool idea. I still like the old versions of the game I own, but I have to say it is not easy to play. It is structurally simple as a rules set, but so many fucking tables and modifiers! I always felt like the natural progression of the system should be to turned into a PC program or phone ap that takes all the tables and hides them under a simple interface. How has that not happened yet?

Quote from: Larsdangly;903613I first encountered RM as the original Arms Law, which when first published was clearly intended to be a bolt-on combat system for D&D. It was (and remains) a cool idea. I still like the old versions of the game I own, but I have to say it is not easy to play. It is structurally simple as a rules set, but so many fucking tables and modifiers! I always felt like the natural progression of the system should be to turned into a PC program or phone ap that takes all the tables and hides them under a simple interface. How has that not happened yet?

I used to use post-it notes to mark the most important tables, and a calculator during play. After handwaving a few clunky rules it suddenly ran smoothly. I dare say it was one of the more popular systems with my group, but I don't think the players knew how much I simplified things. But it was still definitely Rolemaster, with tables and all.

one of my friends from college told me about the Rolemaster campaign he was in.  They spent a month creating characters. He had a wizard.
First session of actual play, the GM told them it was a bright sunny day, not a cloud in the sky.  They had been hired by the mayor of the local town to go and kill some bandits, when suddenly, they see a dragon flying towards them.
The party leader decides "quick, let's hide in the nearby field of sheep!"
Guess where the dragon was headed?
After that they played Call of Cthulhu.

Quote from: remial;903624one of my friends from college told me about the Rolemaster campaign he was in.  They spent a month creating characters. He had a wizard.
First session of actual play, the GM told them it was a bright sunny day, not a cloud in the sky.  They had been hired by the mayor of the local town to go and kill some bandits, when suddenly, they see a dragon flying towards them.
The party leader decides "quick, let's hide in the nearby field of sheep!"
Guess where the dragon was headed?
After that they played Call of Cthulhu.

I don't really see how this is specifically a Rolemaster issue.