Quote from: Ian Absentia;325202Did the robot want to be free?  What did it do with the wages it earned from her?  What did it do in its free time?  If I was the GM, I'd lay it on this player pretty thick.

She buys the robot and sets it free?  Fine.  What does it do?  Nothing.  It just stands there until she tells it what to do.

She pays the robot a fair wage for a day's work?  Fine.  What does it do with the money?  Nothing, until she suggests something for it to buy, which the robot interprets as an order and immediately makes the purchase.

She let's the robot off at the end of a workday?  Fine.  What does it do?  Nothing, until she makes a suggestion, which, again, it interprets as an order and follows to the letter.

!i!

Here's the funny part - the robot was meant as a comedy moment one-off with the other NPC that owned him - then all of a sudden my players say "Why is he treating that robot like that? I don't like that."  They started to give a damn about a minor NPC voice.

 SO,....I made up a name for him and came up with a back history for him on the spot.
 Never got to fully use it tho.
Our next game session was the last before the "big unitentional Pause" in the campaign . (Key player's work schedule changed, then  she is pregnant. That kid is now 4 months old)

The Bot's name is B.R.U.N.O. and has a loud voice that is a mix of Peter  Cullen, Bob May, and a smidgeon of Ted cassidy.

When she offered him money or wages she gave him the option of upgrading himself - only if he wants to. Thats a new concept for B.R.U.N.O. - that he has choices now.

One of the first things he did was learn chess from on of her other crewmembers. He is plodding at it - but getting better when we paused that campaign.

This same player was in that STAR TREK one-off scenario that I did on FREE RPG Day back in June. She said to me "I miss BRUNO, I really do."


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;325213Here's the funny part - the robot was meant as a comedy moment one-off with the other NPC that owned him - then all of a sudden my players say "Why is he treating that robot like that? I don't like that."  They started to give a damn about a minor NPC voice.

Yeah, players can be freaks like that.  Ask me about "Baron Pinto von Runnabout" some time.

QuoteWhen she offered him money or wages she gave him the option of upgrading himself - only if he wants to. Thats a new concept for B.R.U.N.O. - that he has choices now.

Who programmed this robot to have choices?  I'm telling you, man -- I'd be hitting her upside the head with B.R.U.N.O. like yesterday's haddock.  B.R.U.N.O. doesn't "want" anything.  B.R.U.N.O. doesn't make "choices".  B.R.U.N.O. follows orders to the best that its programming and mechanical engineering will allow.

Okay, for real emotional impact, I'd play B.R.U.N.O. like an autistic child.  The player spends time and effort teaching the robot to behave like an autonomous, self-aware being, probably much to the player's satisfaction.  Then, sooner or later, I'd drop a scene on her that underscores that the development of autonomous behavior is merely the robot's interpretation of what it assumes are her commands.

!i!

So I was in another local game store on Sunday - and there was a minis pack I almost bought that  was all "Androids & Robots".

Guess this means I'm due to run a campaign that is focused on them.

Anyone else have ideas? Thoughts?"
.....useful for a campaign where AI robots could be player characters or on the run from the law?


What kind of would would have hundreds of such being/creatures/sophonts around and already constructed?


 The politics of it all?


- Ed C.

Don't Date Robots!

(this message brought to you by the space pope)

RPGPundit

This is to all of you referencing how unlikely the AI ideas are.....

According to page 511 of GURPS 4/e in the Tech Level descriptions, Artificial Intelligence will become commonplace sometime between 2026 and 2070. Thats TL 9.

Also, TL 10 is designated the Robotic Age and has a tentative start of 2070.
Thats only 61 years away - within the possible lifetime of many of us that post on here.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;325944This is to all of you referencing how unlikely the AI ideas are.....

According to page 511 of GURPS 4/e in the Tech Level descriptions, Artificial Intelligence will become commonplace sometime between 2026 and 2070. Thats TL 9.

Also, TL 10 is designated the Robotic Age and has a tentative start of 2070.
Thats only 61 years away - within the possible lifetime of many of us that post on here.

- Ed C.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Quote from: Koltar;325944This is to all of you referencing how unlikely the AI ideas are.....

Who called them unlikely?  I know that I was referring specifically to the programmed function of the robots, regardless of its level of intelligence.  Independence and free will are entirely other matters.

!i!

(P.S. David, I rented and watched Blade Runner again last night.  I watched the "Final Cut", which only perpetuated my displeasure with the "Director's Cut" of 1992.  Call me old school, but I preferred the original theatrical release with the noir-styled voice-over narration.)

Quote from: Ian Absentia;326165( Call me old school, but I preferred the original theatrical release with the noir-styled voice-over narration.)

I feel the same way. I never understood the hateon of some for the voice over narration.

Regards,
David R

Interestingly (well I say interesting...) the word Robot was penned by the Czech playwright Capek to mean an artificial person. His robots were not mechanical and achieved sentience (RUR - 1920ish Karel Capek robot derived from the Czech word robota meaning labour)

Therefore strictly speaking robots by definition really have to look like people.

I like the voice over as well...
I think the fact is it was added to make the film easier to understand as the test screenings just had loads of confused people. If anything is added to something to make it simpler there will always be purists who hark back to the older one. I would say that the cut scene at the end of the car driving through the forests and stuff, which were actually out-takes from the Shining, don't really jibe. Perfect pristine Maine countryside compared to the cauldron of rain, smog, pain and human suffering we find in LA... if ever there was a reason to move to the 'Burbs....

Biggest problem I've had with Robots & Androids in RPGs is the sheer amount of off-color sex jokes they tend to generate.

On the actual topic however isn't the problem with playing AI that they are too smart. A game in which a PC could learn a new Skill by installing software (matrix-esque) would never forget an event, could analyse their photographic record of an event from 3 years ago and get additional detail. COuld extrapolate possible actions to 24 futher moves , would never miss with a weapon unless the opponent was deliberately trying to avoid it and even then it gets a bit questionable would never fail a skill check etc etc. The Enterprise with a crew of Datas not held in check by narrative (ie players never limit themselves in thw way that author's limit their characters in stories just look at Superman)

If you have ever read any Ian M Bankes, specifically Excession, you can see that an AI based game could be very hard to contol and limit. Imagine an Amber game where none of the PCs had any emotional tie to any aspect of the universe. Its a bit like introducing real Force field technology into a sci-fi game. The repurcussions are just enormous and change everything.

It seems like the only way to successfully pull off a super smart AI is in the retconned "Ah ha! It planned for this!" when you had no plans whatsoever sort of way. Basically, cheating a little bit.

Quote from: jibbajibba;326391If you have ever read any Ian M Bankes, specifically Excession, you can see that an AI based game could be very hard to contol and limit. Imagine an Amber game where none of the PCs had any emotional tie to any aspect of the universe. Its a bit like introducing real Force field technology into a sci-fi game. The repurcussions are just enormous and change everything.

Yeah, I get what you're saying here. I have been toying around with a robot/AI game for some time now :

http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=249014&postcount=3

but never managed to move beyond a certain stage because too many questions keep popping up. At one time it was supposed to be that the "robots" developed human psychological charateristics - empathy, compassion etc but I had trouble translating this into a workable game mechanic. I reckon' some things we take for granted.....

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;326435Yeah, I get what you're saying here. I have been toying around with a robot/AI game for some time now :

http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=249014&postcount=3

but never managed to move beyond a certain stage because too many questions keep popping up. At one time it was supposed to be that the "robots" developed human psychological charateristics - empathy, compassion etc but I had trouble translating this into a workable game mechanic. I reckon' some things we take for granted.....

Regards,
David R

You could use a WoW-esque Humanity rating something akin to Data's quest for humanity but unless acheive '10 Humanity' was a game objective its still hard to see the why.

But there are deeper issues.
Experience... when I can upgrade to Killer Assassin 4.2 with an upload and $400 experience becomes moot.
Damage, ooh a blaster shot to the chest looks bad ... I upload my AI to the Net and run Hijak 4.3 to download it into the Security Driod standing by the elevator.
Knowlege - you find a fingerprint on the knife .. I run it throught he global datanet, scan the print for skin cells which I run DNA Pal 3.1 on... investigation .... complete.
And just the speed. In Excession there is a space combat scene where an AI destroys a fleet of ships by firing muliple energy wepons and missiles at multiple foes. It does this by dropping out of hyperspace for 1/10 of a second then jumping back in, that would even make CarWars combat seem free flowing

Well it seems like all those other things you mentioned run counter to Humanity. So yeah you can upload your AI to a new body after you get shot in the chest but you lose Humanity as a result, or you can struggle with the "pain" like humans do.