Quote from: Azraele;907248So it is a zero-sum, Objectivist-morality role playing game. Your goals are personal and you risk disadvantage for adhering to any notions of propriety, altruism, or classic heroism.

“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another monster, nor ask another monster to live for mine.”
Is this a thing in your game?

Why is your game fun? What about your game is fun?

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;907374“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another monster, nor ask another monster to live for mine.”
Is this a thing in your game?

I don’t want to talk at cross-purpose, so I’ll try to be really clear about what I’m talking about with the Objectivist thing.

That quote is the Philosophy of Objectivism: It is an appeal to your mind and your heart, which in turn influence your actions.

Here is what a monstrous John Galt would be inspired to inscribe into the rock of his demoniac utopia:

“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never bare my back in trust to another monster, and should their back be bared to me, I swear by the edict of my reason to stab it.”

This is meant to be a quote of the Lesson of Objectivism. It is supposed to be an appeal directly to action, based on a paradigm in which its proscribed actions are exclusively rational.

(It’s more Stag Hunt/ Prisoner’s Dilemma than Objectivist. But playing either of those with an Objectivist strategy routinely nets you solid results. Same in this game)

Quote from: jeff37923;907378Why is your game fun? What about your game is fun?

I will use bullet points, the superior format, to fire off the stuff that is fun (of which I am aware. You might find something else)

•   Within the above-described categories (and mixing and matching freely between them) you can make a lot of very unique monsters

•   The setting and power level even of starting characters empowers you and encourages id release

•   The game is very quick to learn

•   The game has lots of options for monster advancement, which you choose to grow in whatever way suits your playstyle

•   There is an immense tactical depth underlying the game that players interact with and explore at their pace

•   It is character-centric, with the greater world taking a reactionary stance (You might think “shock and awe…”)

•   Your actions have well-defined consequences

•   It is easy to prepare and run as a GM, but with satisfying challenge, character and verisimilitude

•   Your actions have long-reaching implications

•   The setting is highly interactive, and lots of things can be turned to your purposes

•   Power growth is based both character action and survival. Staying alive grants you Dark Powers, but starting a criminal empire makes you a crime lord.

•   It allows the themes and tone of the game to form organically from the mechanics and the player's use of them (this to contrast with games where these are chosen beforehand or even dictated by the game before play begins)

•   The mechanics enforce a dark urge to kill on the characters, and allows different models for struggling with or indulging this urge (This allows for such great scenes as those in American Psycho where Patrick has to force himself to not kill Luis in the men’s room. Classic!)

Quote from: Azraele;907125You start out with a monster, a liar, and that's it.

So, "% in Liar" is 100? Awesome nod to Monsters & Treasures!

Quote from: Azraele;907125You start out with a monster, a liar, and that’s it. You’re Norman Bates in his hotel. You’re Dracula in his castle.

Quote from: Azraele;907125liar

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Quote from: Azraele;907125You start out with a monster, a liar, and that's it. You're Norman Bates in his hotel. You're Dracula in his castle.

Quote from: Azraele;907125liar

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I think ooooone more big post should just about do it. I'm going to exhaust what I know and have made for the game here. I'll wrap up with a summation of 1) what I have yet to do and 2) where I'll call the project done and put it into editing.

Four flavors of Evil

As I've mentioned before, there are four monstrous archetypes that I have chosen to focus on with the game. In the order in which they were conceived, I will now discuss them in as much detail as exists for them.

Diabolical
This once composed the entirety of the character concepts of the game. The original draft had a very general list of "dark powers". They evoked such powers as the vampires in let the right one in, the lost boys, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and interview with a vampire.

However, when playtesting early drafts of the rules the players would throw curve balls at me. They brought some very unique and fascinating ideas for different monsters to the table. Since the game was in such a proto-state, if they wanted a power or ability that didn't exist in the list, I just made one on the spot and added it in.

It got to the point where I found myself dreaming up new powers which, though they didn't fit the "vampire" paradigm, were too cool to not make a few rules for. The list got big.

When I decided to add the deep levels of metagame and late-game, the need to have distinct strategies converged with the need to construct identity from the dark powers list. Hence the archetype lists.

...

The Diabolical list has all the cool vampire powers of that original list. In addition, I saturated it with a liberal dose of demoniac flavor, giving it a Faust-y vibe.

•   There is a set of powers that lets them forge binding magical contracts
•   They can grant wishes in exchange for services, devotion or sacrifice
•   Their magical rituals are powered by blood and have their own urges. They can use these rituals to summon demons, cast powerful spells and other "warlock"-y things
•   They are the lords of Dominance. They swiftly acquire and expertly leverage masses of mortal thralls
•   Even when not expressly using blood magic, their powers tend towards the "magical": mesmerism, shadow manipulation, flight, ritual resurrection...

I wanted people to Choose from this list to have powers like the classic Dracula. But I wanted these abilities to share his need for a power base to leverage them. Without it, they are left vulnerable.

Primal
If you're going to ape white wolf (and it cannot be argued that I'm not doing so) then the sequence is: vampire, werewolf, other stuff. Also, I have a big soft spot for werewolves. Maybe you can thank Ron Spencer's awesome depictions of them. Maybe an American werewolf in London had something to do with it. I dunno, I just love the hell out of the little creeps.

But past the werewolves (or were-whatevers), my wife came up with a really cool idea for a Selkie character. She kind of blended mermaid with siren with angry sea goddess and made this fantastic character concept out of it. So "elemental" got added to the shape-changing and became a more general "nature red in tooth and claw".

I like to think of these guys as the abominable snowman, or bigfoot, or wendigos. More abstractly, things like gargoyles or any clearly bestial or primordial thing can be represented with these.

•   Naturally, changing shape is a staple power. But it is more specifically "changing into something monstrous" Or "changing into an animal" or "Changing into a living embodiment of an element"
•   Elemental affinity and control grants them a broadly-applicable and thematic set of powers
•   To reflect their strong ties to their environment, their list emphasizes territory building and defense over acquisition
•   They are the undisputable masters of hunting. Meaning you can run AND hide, but you're still screwed
•   In addition to human minions, they acquire a fierce and versatile army of beasts. They can also gain large bodies of a given element as a sort of minion
•   They can direct and enhance weather and plant growth to nightmarish degrees
•   They can acquire strange abilities mimicking such life forms as moles, bats, wolves, spiders, etc. They enhance nature's tools to monstrous proportions

I wanted these guys to have a "don't disturb the sleeping dragon" kind of vibe. Urban legends spring up around their small territories. Those who do not heed the warnings of these tales find themselves in the belly of the beast. Tactically they favor a defensive playstyle, growing with slow inevitability like the tide.

Invasive
The genesis for this archetype uniquely arose out of playtesting. I can't really take credit for it! I had two different testers both of whom went for different versions of the "body-snatcher" type. In both cases they way outstripped the acquisition/power curve of the game as I'd envisioned it, so in both cases they broke the game in delightful ways. I learned a lot about what the game didn't do and couldn't handle from these testers. This archetype was adopted almost defensively; I needed to codify what you could and couldn't do with this kind of character, and clean off a place for them on the power curve.
 
Also, these guys wound up getting some of the more "alien" powers. There are echoes of H.P. Lovecraft and Whitley Strieber in them.

•   Their signature power is puppeteering the body of a human being.
•   They have powers which leverage their inhuman anatomy. Prehensile limbs, masses of tentacles, elastic musculature, etc.
•   They can also spore and spawn in distinctly alien ways. Their method of acquiring minions is very "invasion of the body-snatchers", including cloning or infesting human minions with psychic larva.
•   They can acquire telepathy, telekinesis and invisibility
•   They are masters of Deception. They worm their way into positions of power and make obedient husks of crucial personnel.
•   They have powers which aid them in espionage, sabotage, and shadow-wars of all kinds

The space I carved out for these guys in the long strategy of the game is one of trickery, cheats, and dangerous but quick paths to power.
The idea is that they can swiftly invade people of power and authority, but risk a lot in leveraging their power before they fully absorb the nuance of their stolen identity. Where the other archetypes are resource-management, this one is risk-management.  

Also, I lumped a lot of what I love from such classics as Alien and David Cronenberg's Shivers into this archetype. I love the "monster as body parasite", and baby, these guys are it.

Monstrous
This game is a monster mash, so I had to invite Frankenstein.

Something about dead, necrotic things shambling to life is too beautifully grotesque to leave out. The images of corpses dragging themselves out of graveyards was so intoxicating to me!

This archetype got a lot of classical "monster" stuff, hence the name. They got the undead thing (not the sexy vampire kind, but the nauseating zombie kind). They got some "unstoppable golem" elements from Jewish legend. Also, I was heavily inspired by the body horror of David Cronenberg, so I gave them a lot of squicky powers to bring that into the game. Finally, to add a touch of dark ages, I gave them the powers of plague and corruption (which synched nicely with their "despoiler" vibe).

•   Many of their powers corrupt and spoil resources cherished by other monsters. Monsters, however, may still use them (well, once at least...)
•   They can draw minions from the ranks of the dead, as well as transform victims into powerful, monstrous servants
•   They are the champions of Violence. Whether it be from sheer ferocity or a numb resistance to bodily harm, these guys are formidable foes
•   They create sicknesses that spread their influence with their symptoms
•   They use their flesh as both body and tool. They can spawn minions from themselves, forge their body into weapons, and so on
•   They are incredibly resilient to death. Even torn to shreds, they can sew themselves back together
•   They can survive and thrive in the most extreme and toxic of environments. Indeed, they often create such places of power for themselves

Strategically, these guys are pure powerhouses. They favor (and excel at) direct, uncomplicated confrontation. Their long-game strategy is lopsided though: because their larger-scale powers putrefy and destroy resources, they have a "boom and bust" playstyle which grants them blasts of overwhelming offense followed by cycles of surly defense.

......

The game and how you play it

The core mechanics now consist of two parts (I quote here from the playtest document):

1. The Dark Power Die
The Dark Power Die (DPD)
This is a six-sided die, otherwise called a D6. When you want to overcome a mortal in any way, you must roll over their Capability (ranked 0-5).
If you roll higher, then you have carte blanche to narrate what becomes of your adversary (within the boundaries of reason and the scope of the effect rolled)
If you roll equal to their capability, then the mortal checks you. You cannot overcome them, though they can do no harm to you in return.
If you roll lower than them, then you are in trouble. Through luck or skill, the mortal has gotten the better of you. You suffer a consequence appropriate to the contest lost.
The categories of effect
1.   Violence. Any time you wish to do physical harm to another.
2.   Dominance. When you want to socially overcome a foe.
3.   Hunting. When you want to stalk or hide from a foe.
4.   Deception. When you want to create any sort of lie or falsehood.

2. Diceless Actions
All characters have certain actions they can perform or attempt without needing to roll dice. The following can all be a part of your description of the character's actions. They are simply assumed to always be possible unless the GM explicitly says otherwise.
-Characters are assumed to be capable of anything a human being can reasonably do. Wearing clothes, driving a car, walking, speaking etc. Anything that can be done by a typical person your character can do with a similar amount of effort.
-In addition to this basic aptitude, monstrous characters have additional abilities:
Strength: Can lift a motorcycle over their head. Can flip a car.
Speed: Top speed comparable to a horse at full gallop.
Reflexes: Manual dexterity and coordination easily the equal of a world-class gymnast, parkour expert or acrobat.
Senses: Eyesight keener than an owl. Hearing, taste and smell equivalent to a wolf.
Mind: Can easily acquire new skills, master new ideas and learn new languages in a fraction of the time a human being can.
Lifespan: Immortal unless killed by violence.
Resilience: Does not die from disease (though may still be a carrier and suffer symptoms of truly terrible illnesses). Can endure knife wounds as easily as punches, bullets as easily as severe blunt trauma.
Needs: Monsters need never eat, sleep, breath, drink or create excrement. Their only true need is their insatiable need to kill.

For the rolled actions, there are mechanics for singular targets and multiple, mortal foes VS monstrous ones, and defensive VS offensive rolls. Whenever I get the tiers of play completed, then these actions will scale up and down the tiers as well.
The diceless actions merely generate a yes/no answer for the players/GM. Can I outrun that guy? Can I lift this thing? Etc.

The senses are also really sharp, which gets expanded in the GM chapter by explicitly directing them to give characters a huge wealth of information about their surroundings (this is to heighten the "player as hunter" feeling of the game).
In order to pace the game but allow for a non-nuclear play structure, I implemented a simple framework which shared the spotlight between all participants. Again, I quote the playtest document:

Scenes, Acts and the pacing of the game
Every Night of game time there are three acts (dusk, midnight and darkest hour) per player. Every act is played in a strict order. Each character gets a turn to have the spotlight and drive the narrative.
ACT BREAKDOWN
The Dusk Act
Establishes or reintroduces the characters, plots and story.
The Midnight Act
Tension and danger mount during this act as the characters pursue their goals.
The Darkest Hour Act
All of the tension that has been mounting through the session finally culminates in an explosive climax of action!

Right now the structure is somewhat loose. I hope to mechanize it by refining what needs to happen in an Act and making certain that in playtest I can run a given Act within the parameters I define.
My hope is that this allows the game to flow (as good games should) but have a structure that allows characters to pursue their own agendas, even to the point of competition. So far this has been borne out in playtest, but it needs more defined parameters if it's going to do its job.

.......

What Needs to Get Done

The resource system. I'm caught in a bind between realism and playability, between hyper-detail and necessary abstraction. I've been studying real-world economy and industry, crime family monetary structure, tax laws, accounting handbooks, etc. etc.
This system is so critical to the balance and verisimilitude of the game that it needs to be damned near perfect. Until something that is aesthetically and mechanically pleasing arises as a viable system through playtest or a stroke of genius, this crucial facet is going to hold back the rest of the design.

The Dark Powers. These have to uphold both the "cool" factor of the iconic powers and the strategy of the silent game. I'm very confident that I can flesh these out: the thing that was holding me back was the strategy aspect. Once I figured out that the rate of territory/resource accrual is the cornerstone of silent-game strategy, everything suddenly became gravy. I've just got to actually write the rest of them and playtest.

The tiers of play. The thing about these is that larger-tiers need to define aspects of lower-tiers. I also need to choose jumps in power that work with everything else and scale from "lives in a basement" all the way to "I just conquered Australia". I've got it done up to "city", but it just needs another round of cleaning-up and redesign before I add the bigger tiers.

The rest of the design hinges on getting all of that done. I'll need to scale the rolled actions and dark powers with the tiers of play, but that kind of design comes naturally to me so it should follow on that big design's coattails.
Once all of that is completed, it's done and off to editing.

Bravo.

You have a solid idea and a good approach.

I understand some of what you are going through.  Years ago I attempted game design and play testing for a couple of years, but never went the extra several miles to seal the deal.

I wish you great success.