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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: The Butcher on July 04, 2016, 06:41:09 PM

Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: The Butcher on July 04, 2016, 06:41:09 PM
Mr. Schwalb (lately of Shadow of the Demon Lord fame) recently posted a Facebook status update, answering to fan inquiries on SotDL's lack of ENnie nominations.

Here's a link (https://www.facebook.com/robert.j.schwalb/posts/10208129567690553) to said update.

Quote from: Robert J. Schwalb on Facebook, a few hours ago
A few people have reached out about Shadow of the Demon Lord's absence from the ENnie nominations. The reason the game's not there is because *I* chose not to participate. The love and support I receive from all the fans is enough recognition for me. If you want to support Shadow of the Demon Lord, keep running, keep playing, and keep telling everyone you know about it. If you like a product, maybe throw some stars at it on DriveThruRPG.com or post a review. These things mean more to me and my company than an award. Thanks for all of your continued support and enthusiasm for this little game.

First, philosophically speaking, I have a ton of sympathy for his position. Screw bullshit committee-voted awards, a game's true value is to spark imaginations and get games going. For this alone, I salute the man.

Second, I do find this somewhat puzzling in business terms, and in fact I vaguely recall reading about suspicious shenanigans involving the ENnies a few years ago. What gives? Since these boards love industry gossip, I thought someone might make more sense of this than I did.

Third, I should really look into SotDL. I thumbed through a friend's copy and it had sone great ideas for escalating an apocalyptic (not post- or pre- but actually apocalyptic, cataclysmic, world-ending) dark fantasy campaign. But I read very little on the game itself. And I hear good things about the adventures and supplements.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: AsenRG on July 04, 2016, 07:02:20 PM
"The love and support I receive from all the fans is enough recognition for me. If you want to support Shadow of the Demon Lord, keep running, keep playing, and keep telling everyone you know about it. If you like a product, maybe throw some stars at it on DriveThruRPG.com or post a review. These things mean more to me and my company than an award. Thanks for all of your continued support and enthusiasm for this little game."

Finally someone who gets it and says it as it is?
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: JeremyR on July 04, 2016, 07:57:03 PM
I'm skeptical that the Ennies actually mean anything. Maybe back during peak d20, but now?

ENWorld had something of a purge during the 4e days (if you didn't like it, you weren't really welcome) and while they've re-captured some of their lost audience due to 5e, it's still a shadow of its former self.

And now they are publishing not just D&D supplements, but their own game systems. So it's also a bit of a conflict of interest.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Maese Mateo on July 05, 2016, 10:33:47 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;906855
Third, I should really look into SotDL. I thumbed through a friend's copy and it had sone great ideas for escalating an apocalyptic (not post- or pre- but actually apocalyptic, cataclysmic, world-ending) dark fantasy campaign. But I read very little on the game itself. And I hear good things about the adventures and supplements.
To me, SoTDL along with Godbound are two of the best games from 2016 (I know SotDL was released at the end of last year but most people purchased it and played it this year).  The mechanics are super solid and the setting and general vibe of the game feel like an uncensored (darker even) Warhammer.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: JesterRaiin on July 05, 2016, 10:50:05 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;906855
The love and support I receive from all the fans is enough recognition for me.

Holy shit.

200 points of interest earned.

Edit: there are apparently no Elves in SotDL.

+100 points of interest.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on July 05, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
Every award organization has this same problem. It happens with any kind of art.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Maese Mateo on July 05, 2016, 10:58:19 AM
Quote from: JesterRaiin;906931
Edit: there are apparently no Elves in SotDL.

+100 points of interest.
There are, just not in the Core... and they are not the classic D&D Tolkien-based elves but rather creepy faeries.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/179805/Terrible-Beauty
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Battle Mad Ronin on July 05, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: Maese Mateo;906933
There are, just not in the Core... and they are not the classic D&D Tolkien-based elves but rather creepy faeries.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/179805/Terrible-Beauty

Damn, now I want to buy SotDL even more.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: JesterRaiin on July 05, 2016, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: Maese Mateo;906933
There are, just not in the Core... and they are not the classic D&D Tolkien-based elves but rather creepy faeries.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFcZmICXIAE4GFo.png)
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: thedungeondelver on July 05, 2016, 01:54:31 PM
Rob is a righteous dude, a fan of Paying the Writer, and an all-around good guy.  SotDL seems like a hell of a game (I can't afford it right now, but when I can I will buy a copy).
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 05, 2016, 02:28:41 PM
Quote from: Maese Mateo;906933
There are, just not in the Core... and they are not the classic D&D Tolkien-based elves but rather creepy faeries.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/179805/Terrible-Beauty


Yep. Think more along the lines of Darkness in Legend, Jareth in Labryinth, or the Fae in Hellboy 2; all of which are bad guys :)
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Maese Mateo on July 05, 2016, 03:08:21 PM
Quote from: Skywalker;906950
Jareth in Labryinth
Who, as a matter of fact, is canon character in this game, labyrinth and everything. That part of Terrible Beauty made me laught. XD
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 05, 2016, 03:12:02 PM
Quote from: Maese Mateo;906956
Who, as a matter of fact, is canon character in this game, labyrinth and everything. That part of Terrible Beauty made me laught. XD

Darkness is too, to a degree, if you read Exquisite Agony :)
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Kravell on July 05, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
I have been GMing this a few months and we're about to hit 3rd (expert) level. Amazing game. We have had fights in two trains racing towards collision and will soon travel to the Maze of the Goblin King complete with  the Bog of Horrid Stench (from Terrible Beauty). One PC is playing a goblin who is the 17th son of the Goblin King (rolled randomly for background!)
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Maese Mateo on July 05, 2016, 03:21:02 PM
Quote from: Skywalker;906958
Darkness is too, to a degree, if you read Exquisite Agony :)
Agreed. Diabolus is quite similar to Darkness in many ways, even the artwork for him has some similarities with the character.

To me one of the best parts of the book is when we learn that Diabulus is [REDACTED].
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 05, 2016, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: Maese Mateo;906926
To me, SoTDL along with Godbound are two of the best games from 2016 (I know SotDL was released at the end of last year but most people purchased it and played it this year).  The mechanics are super solid and the setting and general vibe of the game feel like an uncensored (darker even) Warhammer.


BTW good choices ;) SotDL was my RPG of 2015 and Godbound looks like it will be my RPG of 2016 :)
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Madprofessor on July 05, 2016, 04:21:37 PM
I just picked up SotDL about a week ago and... holy crap the game design is awesome.  I'm shocked, really.  It's not D&D and its not WFRP, but it scratches both of those itches at the same time, and with much simpler mechanics than either.  ENnies be damned.  This is a game I'd like to run.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Lynn on July 05, 2016, 07:07:17 PM
Quote from: The Butcher;906855
Second, I do find this somewhat puzzling in business terms, and in fact I vaguely recall reading about suspicious shenanigans involving the ENnies a few years ago. What gives? Since these boards love industry gossip, I thought someone might make more sense of this than I did.


It is entirely possible that he's had some unhappy interactions with Enworld. While I have participated in some interesting discussions there, a few times I have seen people make not-so-terrible and thematically appropriate comments and then get told "we don't allow that kind of talk here" by moderators.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 05, 2016, 07:17:42 PM
Quote from: Lynn;906991
It is entirely possible that he's had some unhappy interactions with Enworld. While I have participated in some interesting discussions there, a few times I have seen people make not-so-terrible and thematically appropriate comments and then get told "we don't allow that kind of talk here" by moderators.

FWIW Rob Schwalb doesn't frequent any internet forums, so I doubt its an issue with the mods at ENworld.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Sable Wyvern on July 05, 2016, 09:10:59 PM
This game looks mighty interesting. I'll probably pick it up, even though I don't know when I'll get a chance to run it. Too many games, too little time. Since it looks like it's designed to run a relatively tight, short campaign, if it really inspires me I might see if my group wants to slot it in between Hackmaster and Godbound. And the Asterix game one of the guys wants to run. And another game another player might decide to run.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Mostlyjoe on July 05, 2016, 10:54:27 PM
SoTL is one of my favorite purchases in the last year. I'd say right up there with Godbound. It's a fantastic, MEAN, game that doesn't really pull any punches when it comes to the horror of the setting.

And yes, the elves are messed up evil faeries who will WRECK YOU UP if you look at them funny.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Imaginos on July 05, 2016, 11:39:52 PM
I picked up SotDL at the game release party Rob held locally. Got to meet him there. It was a pleasure and he was a very nice fellow. My group, however, including one of the guys who went to the party with me and dropped retail price on it too, did not care for it. The atmosphere in the writing is great. But be ready for a very deadly game. It was far more deadly than my guys cared for (with novice level challenges being able to easily drop a character with one hit).

I traded mine away earlier this year.  I had invested heavily and got most of the books available as POD in print. It just didn't play the way the group wanted.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 06, 2016, 12:12:30 AM
SotDL can be pretty deadly, especially in comparison to more recent editions of D&D. My group is an old WFRP group and we have found that the lethality starts around the same as WFRP and actually becomes less so over time.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Simlasa on July 06, 2016, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: Skywalker;907020
SotDL can be pretty deadly, especially in comparison to more recent editions of D&D.
I haven't got a chance to play it yet, but just the name and the look of it has me expecting dark fantasy/horror... so I'd be really disappointed if it pulled its punches and didn't kill any PCs.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 06, 2016, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;907067
I haven't got a chance to play it yet, but just the name and the look of it has me expecting dark fantasy/horror... so I'd be really disappointed if it pulled its punches and didn't kill any PCs.

It's signalled pretty strongly, and even then it can be mitigated somewhat with Fortune points if desired.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: crkrueger on July 06, 2016, 10:28:30 PM
What's "signalled"?  
The PCs death (like through some mechanic or whatever).
or
The deadliness (through author's description).
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 06, 2016, 10:43:03 PM
The latter. It is a dark horror fantasy RPG, it has Joe Abercrombie listed as an inspiration etc
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Rincewind1 on July 07, 2016, 06:37:10 AM
Sighs, as if I did not have enough RPGs on the reading list already... After playing Age of Decadence I am in a mood for some dark fantasy (as if I ever wasn't)
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: 3rik on July 07, 2016, 08:05:14 AM
It would be kind of funny to see Schwalb Entertainment voted Fan Favorite Publisher in the ENnies. It got nominated. :D
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Alzrius on July 08, 2016, 01:44:51 PM
Quote from: Lynn;906991
It is entirely possible that he's had some unhappy interactions with Enworld. While I have participated in some interesting discussions there, a few times I have seen people make not-so-terrible and thematically appropriate comments and then get told "we don't allow that kind of talk here" by moderators.

I blame the site owner (Morrus) for this. Just the other day, someone brought up the topic of AD&D 1E having Strength modifiers for female characters (getting the details wrong, as usual), and he quickly showed up to shut the tangent down, saying that "that isn't inclusive game design, and we want EN World to be an inclusive community."

Honestly, I'm not sure if Morrus has always been like that, or if something changed. I say that because I heard second-hand reports about how, several years ago (2008 maybe?), there was a pretty major incident on the forums. From what I heard, someone made an incredibly offensive, but calmly written, statement on the topic of rape; this in turn received a number of very impolite responses.

The kicker here was how the moderators responded. At the time, posts were moderated for tone, rather than content (notwithstanding a blanket ban on politics, religion, and profanity), which meant that the mods were deleting the fiery responses while leaving the original, offensive post alone since they weren't sure if it was in violation of the rules or not.

As such, people saw that the mods were leaving the offensive material alone while deleting the responses, and shit got real. Cross-forum attacks happened, where members of certain other forums (I never got an answer as to which ones, but it seemed to be The Big Purple and SomethingAwful) began mass-registering at EN World so they could heap abuse at the mod staff there, with an emphasis on Morrus in particular. It got so bad that for a short time the site removed the ability to register new accounts.

When the dust settled, Morrus had been thoroughly beaten; the offending comment was removed, and he announced that the topic of rape would now be permanently banned from discussion. If he wasn't on the road to SJW-dom before that, he certainly seemed to be from that point on.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Warboss Squee on July 08, 2016, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: Alzrius;907414
I blame the site owner (Morrus) for this. Just the other day, someone brought up the topic of AD&D 1E having Strength modifiers for female characters (getting the details wrong, as usual), and he quickly showed up to shut the tangent down, saying that "that isn't inclusive game design, and we want EN World to be an inclusive community."

Honestly, I'm not sure if Morrus has always been like that, or if something changed. I say that because I heard second-hand reports about how, several years ago (2008 maybe?), there was a pretty major incident on the forums. From what I heard, someone made an incredibly offensive, but calmly written, statement on the topic of rape; this in turn received a number of very impolite responses.

The kicker here was how the moderators responded. At the time, posts were moderated for tone, rather than content (notwithstanding a blanket ban on politics, religion, and profanity), which meant that the mods were deleting the fiery responses while leaving the original, offensive post alone since they weren't sure if it was in violation of the rules or not.

As such, people saw that the mods were leaving the offensive material alone while deleting the responses, and shit got real. Cross-forum attacks happened, where members of certain other forums (I never got an answer as to which ones, but it seemed to be The Big Purple and SomethingAwful) began mass-registering at EN World so they could heap abuse at the mod staff there, with an emphasis on Morrus in particular. It got so bad that for a short time the site removed the ability to register new accounts.

When the dust settled, Morrus had been thoroughly beaten; the offending comment was removed, and he announced that the topic of rape would now be permanently banned from discussion. If he wasn't on the road to SJW-dom before that, he certainly seemed to be from that point on.

God forbid we not get our hackles raised over a mechanic over 30 years old.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Skywalker on July 11, 2016, 03:26:50 PM
Voting opened but more importantly, Uncertain Faith was released for SotDL.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Mostlyjoe on July 11, 2016, 09:24:01 PM
Quote from: Skywalker;907143
The latter. It is a dark horror fantasy RPG, it has Joe Abercrombie listed as an inspiration etc

There is NO CR or level based ranking of NPCs/monsters to speak of. The game doesn't hold your hand when it comes to dangers. Some of the monsters in game can murder a group of PC's but thematically are more 'in the middle of the night' type horrors that pick away at parties forcing them to get smart. Othertimes, it's a pretty forward battle but your PC's are slowing going mad fighting the thing you are facing. Etc, etc.

It's a fair system, but MEAN sometimes. I'd say it does a decent job of capturing early Warhammer vibe for monsters/challenges.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: jeff37923 on July 12, 2016, 03:28:51 AM
Quote from: 3rik;907215
It would be kind of funny to see Schwalb Entertainment voted Fan Favorite Publisher in the ENnies. It got nominated. :D


Gypsy Knights Games already has my vote in that category.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Mostlyjoe on July 12, 2016, 04:08:42 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;907846
Gypsy Knights Games already has my vote in that category.

Go with your heart.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on July 13, 2016, 06:29:02 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;906858
"The love and support I receive from all the fans is enough recognition for me. If you want to support Shadow of the Demon Lord, keep running, keep playing, and keep telling everyone you know about it. If you like a product, maybe throw some stars at it on DriveThruRPG.com or post a review. These things mean more to me and my company than an award. Thanks for all of your continued support and enthusiasm for this little game."

Finally someone who gets it and says it as it is?

Holy fucking shit! You made a post without an emoticon!

In all serious, though, I may buy this just to put more money in this dude's pocket.
Title: Robert J. Schwalb on the ENnies
Post by: crkrueger on July 13, 2016, 11:53:41 PM
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;908115
Holy fucking shit! You made a post without an emoticon!

In all serious, though, I may buy this just to put more money in this dude's pocket.

Even Asen can't be ironic about everything.