Quote from: David Johansen;250535Odd, I always picture you as Clint Eastwood in a Humvee...

Not tall enough. My wife says I look a lot like the actor who plays Vic in The Shield, only with a eighth-inch burr instead of a shaved head.

But that could be wishful thinking on her part.

Quote from: OneTinSoldier;250519OK, I spit diet RC all over the desk. I hope you're happy.



An interesting point. How heavily used is that park?

You have an excellent plan.

Now what if, in the later phases, the PCs were tasked to find you? Because of your academic/techincal background?

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/hiawatha/

Hiawatha is pretty big. Me and 5 of my buddies would wander it for weeks. You could walk across it faster but we were hunting and fishing and playing DND in the wilds. Also, it is not like Jellystone or some such, not really much to see there but some small falls, beautiful country, hunting grounds, fishing and camping. I was usually in the West Side and it is even more remote. The East Side is too close to Mackinaw. Oh! That would be a good one too. Mackinaw may have a lot of tourists but it also has a great infrastructure, fortifications and the Grand Hotel. Water is too deep to freeze over int he winter and keeps it nicely remote.

If they needed to find me they would best try the ranger stations. Gladstone has a ridiculously large station that would be a great setting for a mini adventure.  Mackinaw would be a good jumping off point as a "last civilized point" kind of thing. Oh! Also, Fayette is a ghost town with camping facilities and tours out on a peninsula. That would be a cool stopping over point.
http://www.exploringthenorth.com/fayette/town

In the end, I would probably be found hold up near Round Lake or roughing it on Stella Lake. That is some easy to live off land. Combine that with avoiding Fish Lake and the surrounding area as that would be the closest thing to population in the area. Oh, an stay clear of 41, it is the main highway through the UP...and probably US2 as well.

It would be a tough thing. I worked for the Deputies dept as a teenager and finding people who want to be found is tough enough. Tracking criminals is tougher.

Good luck,
Bill

So Dies the Fire describes a sudden collapse. While the cause is different within two week you had millions of people leaving the cities due to the lack of food. Replace that with millions of zombies leaving the cities out to the countryside you can get an idea of what would go on.

Basically anything east of the Mississippi becomes a death zone  The overlapping waves of zombies would crush most of the rural areas in the east. There are a few exceptions (northern maine, Prince Edwards Island, Applachia) but not many. West of the Mississippi the situation become much easier but no less horrific to deal with as the population of zombies streaming out of the cities would just fade into the vastness of the west.


Europe is similarly screwed. However in So Dies the Fire, England was able to hold a small remanent by hanging on to the Isle of Wight. There are similar islands off the coast of Europe or in the Med that could be safe havens.

The basic trick is to take a drafting compass and draw a circle around each metropolitan area. Beyond the edge of the circle likely the problem is manageable. But inside, especially if circles overlap. You got trouble. The exact radius is up to you and depends on how far a zombie can travel.

Quote from: HinterWelt;250610**snip**
Good luck,
Bill

After reading this I have a strong desire to visit!

May I use you as a NPC?

QuoteThe basic trick is to take a drafting compass and draw a circle around each metropolitan area. Beyond the edge of the circle likely the problem is manageable. But inside, especially if circles overlap. You got trouble. The exact radius is up to you and depends on how far a zombie can travel.

Interesting approach. I'll have to use this.

It will be complicated by the fact that these are not zombies, but POCIS (post-coma infected subjects), which are still alive, have human functions (eat ordinary food, sleep), and some varying bits of intelligence.

Still, the circle idea is quite intriguing. What distance were you thinking?

I didn't notice, but did you have a time frame for when the zombies might die completely off?  Once infected, how long did it take the person to turn homicidal?  Or was all the information about the virus to new, that not even the government knows anything about it?

Scenario:  I have children, and it would be my foremost duty to protect them.  I am like a mother bear; I am willing to kill anyone and any thing to make sure they survive.  Unfortunately, I would do my best to get out the city limits and head towards the mountain ranges behind my house, only 30 minutes away.  I would take the pathway directly towards my parent's house, where my father is paranoid about WWIII, and load up on can/dry food, water and all the guns I could find ammunition for.  I would also grab shovels, camping gear,  med packs, knives and machetes.   I know most of the back roads in and out of my town, and I have climbed those mountain ranges so many times, that I know where hidden caves are, to set up a perimeter.  I would grab anyone I could save, without endanger my children. I would do my best to protect everyone I was with, but I am willing to through anyone to the wolves, to save my family, including myself.  Humanitarianism is out the door, and survival is the word of the day.

Quote from: OneTinSoldier;250650After reading this I have a strong desire to visit!

May I use you as a NPC?

Sure. Fun all around!

The UP is a nice place to visit and was great to grow up in.

Bill

Quote from: estar;250640Basically anything east of the Mississippi becomes a death zone  The overlapping waves of zombies would crush most of the rural areas in the east. There are a few exceptions (northern maine, Prince Edwards Island, Applachia) but not many. West of the Mississippi the situation become much easier but no less horrific to deal with as the population of zombies streaming out of the cities would just fade into the vastness of the west.

See, this is one of the things about zombie movies that I don't really buy.  As long as zombies are basically mindless, they'll only overrun the population that is completely unprepared for them.  All it takes is one armored vehicle and one person with a gun and lots of ammo can take out hundreds of zombies.  And just a good stout set of walls will keep out any number of them.  You don't have to be on an island to be safe -- and indeed an island may not be safe at all.  (cf. Land of the Dead)

So I think there would be a massive die-off during the first week as the unprepared population is slaughtered, but I think the military would be able to deal with the problem fairly well.  So I don't think that there would be a long period of zombies roaming the streets.  Once they know what they're dealing with, the majority of the zombies/infected would be wiped out.  

In the case of a 28DL-like plague, a wrinkle would be if there is the possibility of a cure so you don't want to kill off the infected.

Quote from: Venosha;250653I didn't notice, but did you have a time frame for when the zombies might die completely off?  Once infected, how long did it take the person to turn homicidal?  Or was all the information about the virus to new, that not even the government knows anything about it?

Its called the 618 virus. The first six hours after infection sees flu-like symptoms with a degree per hour increase of temp. This is followed by a coma for 18 hours, during which the young, old, and infirm die. Those who survive the coma emerge as hyper-aggressive etc. etc.

They don't die off-they continue to eat & sleep. They are not ill, just incredibly hostile. They retain varying degrees of intelligence-none communicate, but even the dim-est has basic cunning.

The POCIS are just the first instance of a larger, more complex threat.

Quote from: Venosha;250653Scenario:  I have children, and it would be my foremost duty to protect them.  I am like a mother bear; I am willing to kill anyone and any thing to make sure they survive.  Unfortunately, I would do my best to get out the city limits and head towards the mountain ranges behind my house, only 30 minutes away.  I would take the pathway directly towards my parent's house, where my father is paranoid about WWIII, and load up on can/dry food, water and all the guns I could find ammunition for.  I would also grab shovels, camping gear,  med packs, knives and machetes.   I know most of the back roads in and out of my town, and I have climbed those mountain ranges so many times, that I know where hidden caves are, to set up a perimeter.  I would grab anyone I could save, without endanger my children. I would do my best to protect everyone I was with, but I am willing to through anyone to the wolves, to save my family, including myself.  Humanitarianism is out the door, and survival is the word of the day.

Interesting.

May I use you as an NPC?

Quote from: jhkim;250671See, this is one of the things about zombie movies that I don't really buy.  As long as zombies are basically mindless, they'll only overrun the population that is completely unprepared for them.  All it takes is one armored vehicle and one person with a gun and lots of ammo can take out hundreds of zombies.  And just a good stout set of walls will keep out any number of them.  You don't have to be on an island to be safe -- and indeed an island may not be safe at all.  (cf. Land of the Dead)

So I think there would be a massive die-off during the first week as the unprepared population is slaughtered, but I think the military would be able to deal with the problem fairly well.  So I don't think that there would be a long period of zombies roaming the streets.  Once they know what they're dealing with, the majority of the zombies/infected would be wiped out.  

In the case of a 28DL-like plague, a wrinkle would be if there is the possibility of a cure so you don't want to kill off the infected.

I agree.

But the POCIS are not mindless. They shun vehicles, and scatter away from gunfire unless within rushing range. They can climb stairs, etc. The smarter ones, who are obeyed unquestioningly by the less smart, can work doors, locks, will think to use ladders, use decoys and bait, etc.

Also, the POCIS do not kill uninfected-they seek to bite them to pass on the virus; thereafter, they leave them alone (although a person in the first phase might get bitten repeatedly).

Its what I call the necromancer effect: they do not destroy the population, they just cause it to switch sides.

Without some modification to the human body, wouldn't there be a rather rapid die off of the infected? Unless the infected are going to take up the labor necessary to produce and transport food, they will quickly run out of immediately available food.

Quote from: CavScout;250677Without some modification to the human body, wouldn't there be a rather rapid die off of the infected? Unless the infected are going to take up the labor necessary to produce and transport food, they will quickly run out of immediately available food.

Depends upon what you define as 'rapid'. The POCIS are smart enough to hack open canned food, and are not picky at all. The FTL Now setting has (in the USA) a power grid based on microwave satellites, so refrigerated storage will hold up.

I figure they will head out of the urban centers once the targets thin out, where livestock can be killed by working together. But yes, they will eventually die off. The outbreak will hit in early summer, so climate issues will not be a major factor.

By the time the hunger issues and military attrition significantly cut their numbers, there will be other problems.

The virus is a beginning.




(BTW, awesome avatar!)

QuoteInteresting.

May I use you as an NPC?

Go ahead and use it, am not.  Sounds like a cool game.  Let me know how it all turns out!

For what's it's worth, being part of Uncle Sam's Jackbooted Thuggery Brigade, I have the position of being torn between Country and Family when S.H.T.F. (I think you can figure this acronym out; got it from one of the many "gun" forums floating about the 'net).

Depending upon the amount of time that troubles are happening in, I will answer my call-up when it happens 'cause I made a promise and I'm all about keeping promises; besides, if you aren't willing to fight for your country/way of life/local Wal-Mart & nearby buffet, then who will?  Did two times in the sandbox already, so what you got to frighten me now, right?

If things are snowballing wildly in terms of time-line, then don't expect me to think that Uncle Sugar has my best interests in mind.  I'm going to get as many weapons and ammo as I can and I'm frankly going to start either rating my neighbors as: 1. Help or 2. Victims.  Then I'm going to act accordingly, and not for the "nice" side of the alignment scale either.

Hope this helps.

And if you are living near me when the zombies hit, be helpful.

Quote from: Danger;250715For what's it's worth, being part of Uncle Sam's Jackbooted Thuggery Brigade, I have the position of being torn between Country and Family when S.H.T.F. (I think you can figure this acronym out; got it from one of the many "gun" forums floating about the 'net).

Got that covered: Operation Eagle Lift.

The evacuation of military and ES dependants to off-world (the virus is mostly contained on Earth) or to secure zones.

Otherwise the military would swiftly collapse. With their families safe, they can stay focused on the job.

Eagle Lift began before the virus really got going (there are RL plans in place for similar type actions).

Quote from: OneTinSoldier;250681I figure they will head out of the urban centers once the targets thin out, where livestock can be killed by working together. But yes, they will eventually die off. The outbreak will hit in early summer, so climate issues will not be a major factor.

Two weeks to run out of foodstocks and the only alternative is cannibalism.

A month or so for the cannibal situation to somewhat stabilize.

A year the cannibals start dying off. Primarily because of diseases caused by cannibalism.

Two years the surviving cannibal tribes probably will continue to survive if they successfully returned to hunting animals.

As for livestock They will be demolished in the first month by the MILLIONS streaming out of the urban areas. Overlapping waves in the highly industrialized region will strip the countryside bare in a matter of weeks.

The key to the success of modern agriculture isn't just refrigeration and crop yields but also transportation. Once that breaks down most industrialized areas will run out within two to four weeks. And without transportation even farms within several day's walk will have trouble moving its surplus food to the city.

Just draw 100 mile circles around each city on the east coast of the US (the distance a average person/zombie would walk in a week) and look at the overlaps. There just really no place in the Eastern US, SE Australia, Western Europe, etc that can escape zombies streaming out of multiple cities.

This all assume you are going for plausibility.