Quote from: oggsmash;1134643Why make a race, that has innate magic powers (Well I think they still do in 5e) conform in any way to having to adapt to their environment?   They are unnaturally black, not dark skinned, not tan, but unnatural.  Marked if you will.   Should mind flayers be pasty as well?

Actually, I do prefer my mind-flayers to be pasty too!

But if you want your drow to be unnaturally black, then go with that. When you get down to it, all this stuff has more to do with personal preference and aesthetics, and rational explanations come later (or not at all). Do what you like really, it's supposed to be a creative game, so create, tinker, do what you want.

Quote from: Zirunel;1134644Actually, I do prefer my mind-flayers to be pasty too!

But if you want your drow to be unnaturally black, then go with that. When you get down to it, all this stuff has more to do with personal preference and aesthetics, and rational explanations come later (or not at all). Do what you like really, it's supposed to be a creative game, so create, tinker, do what you want.

  I remember a picture of Lolth (or maybe her high priestess) in Drow form in either the vault of the drow or queen of the demonweb pits (1st edition) and she was jet black.  It was unnatural and....hot at the same time.  She was sort of feeling up a nearby demon, and the mood of the picture certainly suggested if the tolkien elves were not for the orgies, well things down in the dark are key parties every day.    I can see where making them very pale would create a similar shock effect (not so sure on the hot, pasty can be a hard sell this side of Atali, the frost giants daughter).

   Mind flayers struck me as mauve or purple even in the 1st edition MM.  I can see making one pasty to show a mutant/extra scary one though.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134649Mind flayers struck me as mauve or purple even in the 1st edition MM.  I can see making one pasty to show a mutant/extra scary one though.

You are right about by-the-book mind flayer. I just prefer the sickly pale mauve over the full on purple. To each his own.

Quote from: Zirunel;1134660You are right about by-the-book mind flayer. I just prefer the sickly pale mauve over the full on purple. To each his own.

  Heh to me even pale mauve is pretty damned purple.  I think the thing is so alien there is no color that could make it look not menacing.  But I think pale mauve being in the spectrum is certainly in the bounds of my imagination.  I guess I thought you were talking a stark white Mind Flayer.  Not that a maggot colored Mind flayer is not terrifying.  I just always thought of some purple spectrum, and that was as a third grader looking at the picture in black and white.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1134632Assuming the Drow have genes. D&D has always played fast and loose with soft science, and adding magic into the mix makes it even muddier.

Anybody checked out Dungeon Meshi? It does magical organisms really well and only sometimes using 'And mana powers this part' as a crutch.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1134601Just guessing here but...

Climate, amount of sun exposure, in short evolution. Which is why Drow (If living since millennia in caves) should be white as paper.

People keep trotting this one out. Thing is drow skin colour isnt natural. Its a curse or whim of a god, depending on the iteration. Like fomori are cursed to be ugly. Or the new background for harpies, chimera, etc.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134661Heh to me even pale mauve is pretty damned purple.  I think the thing is so alien there is no color that could make it look not menacing.  But I think pale mauve being in the spectrum is certainly in the bounds of my imagination.  I guess I thought you were talking a stark white Mind Flayer.  Not that a maggot colored Mind flayer is not terrifying.  I just always thought of some purple spectrum, and that was as a third grader looking at the picture in black and white.

No, never gone stark white with those guys but why not? I can imagine it. maybe I'll try one now, thanks! As you say, maggot-coloured is nicely horrifying. No need to lean too heavily on "canon" or books for any of this. In fact, in some ways better if you riff off "canon" rather than leaning on it.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134661Heh to me even pale mauve is pretty damned purple.  I think the thing is so alien there is no color that could make it look not menacing.  But I think pale mauve being in the spectrum is certainly in the bounds of my imagination.  I guess I thought you were talking a stark white Mind Flayer.  Not that a maggot colored Mind flayer is not terrifying.  I just always thought of some purple spectrum, and that was as a third grader looking at the picture in black and white.

   Hmm...I don't think the artists could get away with it, but transparent/translucent illithidae?

Quote from: Zirunel;1134665No, never gone stark white with those guys but why not? I can imagine it. maybe I'll try one now. As you say, maggot-coloured is nicely horrifying. No need to lean too heavily on "canon" or books for any of this. In fact, in some ways better if you riff off "canon" rather than leaning on it.

   A mindflayer with the color of a maggot and a tongue with teeth on the end of it like the xenomorph from Alien and no face tentacles.  The party is in for shock when they charge it.

Quote from: Omega;1134664People keep trotting this one out. Thing is drow skin colour isnt natural. Its a curse or whim of a god, depending on the iteration. Like fomori are cursed to be ugly. Or the new background for harpies, chimera, etc.

People keep trotting lore as RAW, Last time I played like that was several decades ago.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1134666Hmm...I don't think the artists could get away with it, but transparent/translucent illithidae?

Nice!

Quote from: oggsmash;1134667A mindflayer with the color of a maggot and a tongue with teeth on the end of it like the xenomorph from Alien and no face tentacles.  The party is in for shock when they charge it.

So my hazy memory tells me there was a piece (Dragon article?) a long time ago (70s?) suggesting dms dump the published descriptions of monsters or at least change them up a lot, if only because even back then, if you went by the book,  players "knew too much" about what they were facing. Could go overboard with that, but can be useful advice.

Quote from: Zirunel;1134672So my hazy memory tells me there was a piece (Dragon article?) a long time ago (70s?) suggesting dms dump the published descriptions of monsters or at least change them up a lot, if only because even back then, if you went by the book,  players "knew too much" about what they were facing. Could go overboard with that, but can be useful advice.

   I have only run D&D 10 or so sessions for my group, we are mostly GURPS and Savage Worlds.    GURPS we play a hyborian adventure (Conan) campaign.  I like the atmosphere of a Conan like setting regarding monsters.   They are rare, horrifying and not something you have encountered before and do not know anyone who has.   It encourages you to make some creatures up,or use same stat blocks and create complete different creatures.  I know this, my son, who is bright, can damn near identify a monster from memory at the sparsest of details about its appearance .  So for D&D, that has a bit more of a Kolchak:Nightstalker feel to it than horrors man was not meant to know, I think that is excellent advice.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134676I have only run D&D 10 or so sessions for my group, we are mostly GURPS and Savage Worlds.    GURPS we play a hyborian adventure (Conan) campaign.  I like the atmosphere of a Conan like setting regarding monsters.   They are rare, horrifying and not something you have encountered before and do not know anyone who has.   It encourages you to make some creatures up,or use same stat blocks and create complete different creatures.  I know this, my son, who is bright, can damn near identify a monster from memory at the sparsest of details about its appearance .  So for D&D, that has a bit more of a Kolchak:Nightstalker feel to it than horrors man was not meant to know, I think that is excellent advice.

Yes I like that aspect of a Conan/ S&S type setting too. So do you go low/ rare magic as well?

Quote from: Zirunel;1134680Yes I like that aspect of a Conan/ S&S type setting too. So do you go low/ rare magic as well?

   For the Conan setting?  Well, magic in conan is not low, it is subtle in many cases, or literally world shaking.  The thing is, the characters have no access to it.  Magic weapons are almost non existent,  and there is no player that has a character capable of anything approaching magic.  There is one relic sword they found that they have no idea what it does, and they have an NPC to tags along from time to time or sells them alchemy compounds or a healing golden wine (that will keep you from dying and greatly accelerate your healing for a day, but supplies are always limited, and he can not make more "on the road").   Lose a limb and it is gone forever.   Die, you are dead.  The party has survived 15 or so adventures, and lost several NPCs who were with them (these were actually back up players, because I did not know how it would go) and been very close to death a few times.   In Gurps, the warrior with a shield dominates melee in the scrum.  The warrior with reach dominates it in open space, or at least presents real challenges to people without reach.   Archers are less damaging then melee, but can be devastating against the "dangerous" targets (the archer actually one shotted a creature I thought would wipe the party, a "dragon" (an allosaurus the Cult leader mage had raised from hatchling) by shooting it through the eye with a poison arrow, hit a crit, devastating damage roll and a fail on the health check by the critter).  

    I find it is harder to create those sorts of things in D&D, the tension, the chance for fate to win out for you.  But I do tend to be human centric  and a bit of a Sword and sorcery vibe,  Their party has no wizard or true magic user, or a cleric.  This is going to get them killed, but I am surprised about 5th edition in the fact that is is more survivable (at least up to level 5) than I would have expected.  I think they have one +1 warhammer in the group of 5 players.   I would love to keep it in that vein, where magic is rare, but awesome, but when you have a ranger and a paladin already casting spells about I think that is wrong game.