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Author Topic: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs  (Read 26526 times)

GeekyBugle

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Re: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs
« Reply #510 on: October 14, 2021, 10:10:02 PM »
Do you know many masons that go willy nilly building houses without a contract into land they don't own and then try to charge the owner of the land for the work done?
I have a good example of that happening, just a month or so ago: A friend hired a company to put up a fence. They sent someone out to assess the property, measured out where the fence was going to go, and wrote up a work order. Then the day the crew came put in the fence, my friend got a call from his wife, who didn't know what to do because the supervisor of the crew was demanding $3000 more than they had agreed on. Turns out, they mismeasured the property. It was longer than their guy had measured, so it used up a lot more wood. And the crew chief didn't check with anyone, they just put in the whole fence, and then demanded more money.

This happens all the time with contractors. With healthcare. With car repairs....

You either lack reading comprehension something fierce or are just trying to win an argument. Your example is nothing like what I said!

I imagine it's the same with my suposedly "baking the labor theory of value" into my posts.

You're reading stuff that's not there or you can't understand what's been written. Like I said useless arguing with you even if it's not a malicious tactic. Welcome to the ignore list.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Pat

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Re: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs
« Reply #511 on: October 14, 2021, 10:12:38 PM »
Do you know many masons that go willy nilly building houses without a contract into land they don't own and then try to charge the owner of the land for the work done?
I have a good example of that happening, just a month or so ago: A friend hired a company to put up a fence. They sent someone out to assess the property, measured out where the fence was going to go, and wrote up a work order. Then the day the crew came put in the fence, my friend got a call from his wife, who didn't know what to do because the supervisor of the crew was demanding $3000 more than they had agreed on. Turns out, they mismeasured the property. It was longer than their guy had measured, so it used up a lot more wood. And the crew chief didn't check with anyone, they just put in the whole fence, and then demanded more money.

This happens all the time with contractors. With healthcare. With car repairs....

You either lack reading comprehension something fierce or are just trying to win an argument. Your example is nothing like what I said!

I imagine it's the same with my suposedly "baking the labor theory of value" into my posts.

You're reading stuff that's not there or you can't understand what's been written. Like I said useless arguing with you even if it's not a malicious tactic. Welcome to the ignore list.
You fail to even understand your own example, and you're not even trying to engage with anything anything I've said. Just like all your other posts.

So how many times are  you going to put me on your ignore list? That's twice in two posts. It's kind of sad you have to announce it so many times. It's almost like you're anti-virtue signalling like a good little communist.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 10:14:44 PM by Pat »

jhkim

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Re: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs
« Reply #512 on: October 15, 2021, 12:47:16 AM »
So no, you don't have a right to profit from the work of others without a signed contract that gives you the right (either by paying or for free as in an open license).

Legally, yes, IP laws exists under current law and thus it requires a contract to override.

But the point regarding labor is that in general, someone can't just do labor and then expect that they get something in return with no implicit or explicit contract.

And it seems like that's exactly what your argument is. You do labor - and then you get to regulate everyone else's behavior regardless of whether they agreed. Or more explicitly, you get the government to regulate everyone else's behavior.

----

The point is that it isn't a natural right. It's a government grant to encourage certain behavior.

To take a hypothetical -- suppose in a post-apocalyptic world, there's two islands A and B within sight of each other. They each have their own people, and they make farms and buildings and so forth. If A's go over to B island and take their crops, then that's clearly a provocation. They've violated the others' territory - and the B's are right in retaliating.

But what if A's just observe how B's are farming, and use that to improve something in their own farming? Is that theft, and the B's can retaliate and attack the A's in response?

I would say no.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs
« Reply #513 on: October 15, 2021, 12:59:24 AM »
So no, you don't have a right to profit from the work of others without a signed contract that gives you the right (either by paying or for free as in an open license).

Legally, yes, IP laws exists under current law and thus it requires a contract to override.

But the point regarding labor is that in general, someone can't just do labor and then expect that they get something in return with no implicit or explicit contract.

And it seems like that's exactly what your argument is. You do labor - and then you get to regulate everyone else's behavior regardless of whether they agreed. Or more explicitly, you get the government to regulate everyone else's behavior.


----

The point is that it isn't a natural right. It's a government grant to encourage certain behavior.

To take a hypothetical -- suppose in a post-apocalyptic world, there's two islands A and B within sight of each other. They each have their own people, and they make farms and buildings and so forth. If A's go over to B island and take their crops, then that's clearly a provocation. They've violated the others' territory - and the B's are right in retaliating.

But what if A's just observe how B's are farming, and use that to improve something in their own farming? Is that theft, and the B's can retaliate and attack the A's in response?

I would say no.

Creative quoting, where the fuck have I said anything that can be construed in any sane person's mind as "But the point regarding labor is that in general, someone can't just do labor and then expect that they get something in return with no implicit or explicit contract.

And it seems like that's exactly what your argument is. You do labor - and then you get to regulate everyone else's behavior regardless of whether they agreed. Or more explicitly, you get the government to regulate everyone else's behavior."

Please do provide the exact quote where I say that if I do labor then the government has to regulate everybody else's behaviour?

Unless you're talking about taking my shit and selling it without my consent, then yes, government ALREADY does that, all over the world (except in socialist/communist countries where the elite gets to take everybody else's shit).

Is that your position? YOU should be able to take my game and sell it without a contract with me?

Because I sure as fuck don't hold that strawman you, Pat, Oddbrain and Estar keep trying to build.

You either provide the exact quote or you're, once again, lying about me. Something not very Christian of you. But then again you're a progressive Christian.

Strange how all of you say I said that and yet none of you can ever prove I did...
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

DocJones

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Re: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs
« Reply #514 on: October 15, 2021, 02:37:55 PM »
To take a hypothetical -- suppose in a post-apocalyptic world, there's two islands A and B within sight of each other. They each have their own people, and they make farms and buildings and so forth. If A's go over to B island and take their crops, then that's clearly a provocation. They've violated the others' territory - and the B's are right in retaliating.

But what if A's just observe how B's are farming, and use that to improve something in their own farming? Is that theft, and the B's can retaliate and attack the A's in response?

I would say no.
That is an interesting hypothetical.  In a post-apocalyptic world probably not.
It is possible to patent farming methods.
See: A farming method to conserve available rainfall comprising the forming of a plurality of elongated, spaced-apart, open-top slots in the soil surface...
and many others.
So under U.S. patent law it is possible to commit patent infringement by observing and implementing someone's patented farming method.

I would add that in the absence of a patent system, people will hide their processes from possible competitors. 
Many still do.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 02:45:19 PM by DocJones »

soundchaser

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Re: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs
« Reply #515 on: October 15, 2021, 04:16:54 PM »
There is a line of literature on patent buyouts that seems all about altering the monopoly window to zero time protection. There are nitty gritty details snd government failure risks, but worth looking at more. I only skimmed the surface.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 02:47:43 PM by soundchaser »

Eirikrautha

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Re: Reddit gamers were mad they lost an easy means of pirating TTRPGs
« Reply #516 on: October 16, 2021, 10:21:50 PM »
As someone who is creative, the only reason I can see for wanting someone else’s IP is to try and piggyback off the previous work and effort of others instead of putting in the work to develop my own material.
Well, except you haven't come up with a single solitary new idea.  I can say that with 100% certainty, not even having read anything you wrote.  That's true for every "creative" endeavor.  The fact is, there hasn't been a truly unique and new idea for the last couple of hundred years.  Everything today is built on layers and layers of previous ideas.  Why should you get to profit off of the idea of a role-playing game?  You didn't invent that idea.  You are using it without paying the people who developed it a thing!  Your iteration of it might combine old ideas in new and/or interesting ways, but I guarantee you that I can find an expression of everything you write, in general, somewhere previously.  Now, I have no problem with you getting a short-term monopoly on profiting off of your work, just to encourage you and others to do that work.  But you have no more of a "right" to your ideas than do the people you stole them from...