1989 posed this great question on the Ditch WotC thread.

Quote from: 1989;1139811For those of you who have now ditched WotC, what have you moved on to?

I'm taking the idea another step. For people seeking to replace WotC/Paizo fantasy, what do you recommend and why? Tell us about your favorite fantasy games from not-woke publishers.

For me, I'm finishing my homebrews, particularly my Not-Dark Sun RPG.

DriveThruRPG is overflowing with RPGs - new and old - because we truly live in the Golden Age of RPG with an overabundance of riches - even beyond the vast trove of the OSR.

Personally, I highly suggest Palladium Fantasy 1e to any fantasy RPG fans. It's a work of raw, unbridled creativity and love for RPGs that rocks in actual play (regardless of the system wonkiness). It usually sells for $20-$30 on eBay. Worth every dime.

And here's some FREE presents for you!

WARRIOR, ROGUE & MAGE
It's a GURPS-lite fantasy with a ton of free supplements. THIS is my go-to whenever I have to deal with my deranged GURPS-loving friends .
http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/

EXEMPLARS & EIDOLONS
Sine Nomine/Kevin Crawford's free RPG that's Big Damn Hero Conan-esque fantasy via OSR-ish rules, but there's SO MUCH crazy goodness shoved into a tiny package that I'd didn't fully appreciate until I test drove it at the game table. Easily could run short Sword & Sorcery campaigns with this freebie.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/144651/Exemplars--Eidolons

MAZES & MINOTAURS
Oh crap, is that damn Spinachcat is pimping M&M again? Yeah baby!!!
Its OSR-ish and after dozens of sessions, I'm totally sold on its awesomeness.
M&M delivers everything I want from a Greek mythic fantasy RPG (with a ton of free supplements).
And there's also a free Norse version called VALKYRIES & VIKINGS
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

So what's your not-woke recommendation?

I mentioned it in the other thread, but both Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures and Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells (actually, all of Diogo Nogueira's games) have been both popular and successful at my table.

I'm way over due for running my own things anyway, and would probably be doing it even if none of the woke nonsense was happening.  But that doesn't help anyone else, seeing how my own stuff is barely into any kind of play test and unlikely to be something useful to another GM any time soon.

So what I'll run if my own things don't come together, in rough order:

- DCC
- BEMCI with domains at a little below name level or ACKS around level 7
- GURPS or Fantasy Hero (using 3E and 4E, respectively), but not wide open--rather, with a few character templates built to simplify life for the players and enhance the setting I have in mind.

As always, a bit of Toon for a light-hearted break.  Some day I might run a Star Wars parody game using the Toon engine.

Meh, to be honest I don't think there's a point recommending alternatives to D&D or PF if that's the game you actually want to play. Particularly if you like 5e, I don't think there's a game that does 5e quite like 5e does. And PF 2e is basically a splinter at this point, mixing elements of 3e and 5e without really being either of them. If you want to play something like PF 2e without playing PF 2e I'm not sure what your options are, other than homebrewing your own clone based off it.

Sometimes people want something in particular out of a game, and for me if I wanted to play something like D&D I'm not gonna play some OSR thing when I already hated Basic back when I started out in the hobby. I'm probably gonna play 5e, or some homebrewed monstrosity based on 3e and/or 5e.

I've been checking out Spheres of Power recently and Fantasy Craft as well (OK, I accidentally fell into some D&Dish not-D&D recommendations right there). I'd probably take elements of those next time I wanna play something like D&D. But how do I know when any of these games are gonna cave to the woke demands of an online mob?

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1139851Some day I might run a Star Wars parody game using the Toon engine.

LEGO Star Wars: the RPG!!

That would rock with the right group.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1139862Meh, to be honest I don't think there's a point recommending alternatives to D&D or PF if that's the game you actually want to play.

Every time I see PF it takes me a few minutes to figure out that the person is talking about Pathfinder and not Palladium Fantasy. Usually I don't figure it out until after I've already responded with an answer or comment based on Palladium and I'm looking at the confused responses from people.

That being said I'm sure it will come as zero surprise that I fully agree with Spinachcat about Palladium Fantasy 1st ed. And if you are one of these people that prefer to read an entire book from a digital screen it is available as a PDF on Drivethru.

Quote from: Spinachcat;11398411989 posed this great question on the Ditch WotC thread.



I'm taking the idea another step. For people seeking to replace WotC/Paizo fantasy, what do you recommend and why? Tell us about your favorite fantasy games from not-woke publishers.

For me, I'm finishing my homebrews, particularly my Not-Dark Sun RPG.

DriveThruRPG is overflowing with RPGs - new and old - because we truly live in the Golden Age of RPG with an overabundance of riches - even beyond the vast trove of the OSR.

Personally, I highly suggest Palladium Fantasy 1e to any fantasy RPG fans. It's a work of raw, unbridled creativity and love for RPGs that rocks in actual play (regardless of the system wonkiness). It usually sells for $20-$30 on eBay. Worth every dime.

I own Palladium Fantasy Second Edition. Can you give a comparison to First Edition? (I've never used it.)

I agree that Palladium may be the last major publisher to go Woke. Kevin hasn't changed his Rifts system for something like 25 years. I doubt he is going to modify anything for the woke brigade in 2020. If I had to place a bet, I'd put my money on Kevin.

I saw Dead Reign PDFs on sale last week, and was thinking of picking up the lot of them (as shipping to Canada for hard copies is prohibitive).

This thread could be a useful resource for me in approximately 18 months.

1st Ed vs 2nd (in brief)
HP only vs SDC & HP
1 attack per round vs 2 just for being alive + combat training
Man at Arms careers have access to paired weapons (dual wielding) vs anyone can take the paired weapons skill
Different combat skill for each combat focused OCC (class) vs anyone can have any combat skill of choice (Mages wielding two long swords and skilled in martial arts making all non-magic classes pointless)
X number of spells per day (level of spell doesn't matter) vs X number of magic points (PPE) to spend on spells with each spell having it's own cost (1st level spells range from 1 to 6 points for example.
Lower combat bonuses (keeping armor more valuable) vs High combat bonuses (making it easy to bypass armor)
No stat altering skills vs large number of physical skill boosting stats and giving bonuses to combat

One thing that may trip up a new player is no matter your OCC (class) you only get 1d6 HP per level keeping fights pretty dangerous (2nd ed adds SDC which can with physical skills and racial bonuses easily add 100+ SDC, basically an extra HP pool to have to grind through).

Quote from: Spinachcat;1139841Recommend your favorite not-woke Fantasy RPG!

Still DragonQuest probably.

I still have a soft spot for Earthdawn. The edition mostly doesn't matter since most of them are so similar (with copy/paste text and even art), but I own a full set of the 3e books by RedBrick/Flaming Cobra from 2009 or so.

I have a soft spot for Brian Gleichman's Age of Heroes, mostly because I always had some reluctant admiration for the firmness of Brian's convictions back when he and I would occasionally debate on TBP. You can get AoH from lulu.com, I believe.

1e AD&D is awesomely non-woke. I find myself making it MORE politically correct - eg my Gnolls have strong confident female leaders.

Quote from: S'mon;11399431e AD&D is awesomely non-woke. I find myself making it MORE politically correct - eg my Gnolls have strong confident female leaders.

You know what surprised me recently? The pronouns used in various editions of D&D:

1974 OD&D: He
AD&D 1e: He or she
AD&D 2e: He (the book even provided a justification for why the generic masculine was the only way to write clearly ... surprise!)

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1139889Still DragonQuest probably.

Interesting! Tell us more. What makes DragonQuest special? I've never played it.

Quote from: 1989;1139869I own Palladium Fantasy Second Edition. Can you give a comparison to First Edition? (I've never used it.)

I'd happily play a Palladium Fantasy 2e campaign, but 1e has a special raw magic. 2e was written to be more directly compatible with RIFTS which I don't think was a benefit.