Quote from: WarthurDon't stunt points/action points come from Exalted?

Exalted simply awards between one and three bonus dice for imaginative descriptions and making use of the scenery, so it's probably not quite the same.

Quote from: MelanYeah, but back then, they were talking about White Wolf things instead of social contracts and APs.

One of the guys who maintained one of the big offficial/non-official Planescape pages was a big D&D hater.

One of the guys who maintained the official/non-official Darksun material was also a big D&D hater.

Both of them eventually become forgies; Zak Arnston and the other guy I only know his LJ name: greyorm.

I think it's fair to note that lots of people who love D&D spend a lot of time making it more suitable to their specific tastes.

Quote from: jrientsI think it's fair to note that lots of people who love D&D spend a lot of time making it more suitable to their specific tastes.

Agreed.  

Also, I really miss the wide range of settings that were produced by TSR/WOTC during the AD&D 2nd Edition era.  I liked that both traditional and non-traditional setting material was available, even ones I personally didn't care as much for.

Quote from: RezendevousAgreed.  

Also, I really miss the wide range of settings that were produced by TSR/WOTC during the AD&D 2nd Edition era.  I liked that both traditional and non-traditional setting material was available, even ones I personally didn't care as much for.

That's true, but let's not forget that this wild proliferation of campaign settings turned out to be one of the nails in TSR's coffin. There's probably just as wide a range of settings - if not wider - available for 3.X these days, thanks to the OGL letting multiple publishers get in on the act.

That's, imo, one of the great strengths of OGL in D&D; being able to get that proliferation (theoretically) without making a single organization do the work. The profit smaller settings generate might be enough to justify the effort for small press or hobby gamers, but would create too much overhead for Wizards.

And if they fail, well, Wizards doesn't take the hit. Not that I care, personally, about the company, but I want to continue to see D&D material come out of them.

As a side note, I love Planescape with the heat of a thousand suns. Not all of it, but the bits I dig are terrific to me.

Quote from: WarthurThat's true, but let's not forget that this wild proliferation of campaign settings turned out to be one of the nails in TSR's coffin. There's probably just as wide a range of settings - if not wider - available for 3.X these days, thanks to the OGL letting multiple publishers get in on the act.

Oh yes, I know it was bad business-wise.  But from a gamer perspective, it was great.

As far as settings for 3.x -- it doesn't actually seem that there are that many even if there are, at least not ones that were as extensively supported as TSR's.  Plus, it seems like there aren't as many of the unusual settings (Spelljammer, Planescape, etc.) this time around.  

I'm sure both of these may be more perception than reality, but at the same time most of the OGL content that has been published is more crunch (treasure books, spell books, etc.) than fluffier stuff like settings.

Quote from: RezendevousOh yes, I know it was bad business-wise.  But from a gamer perspective, it was great.

As far as settings for 3.x -- it doesn't actually seem that there are that many even if there are, at least not ones that were as extensively supported as TSR's.  Plus, it seems like there aren't as many of the unusual settings (Spelljammer, Planescape, etc.) this time around.  

I'm sure both of these may be more perception than reality, but at the same time most of the OGL content that has been published is more crunch (treasure books, spell books, etc.) than fluffier stuff like settings.

That's because most of the settings have been paired with extensive houserules and rewrites and sold as seperate games.  

If you look at the D20 market for what it actually is, a whole mess of D&D houserules, there's quite a lot of it floating around, far more than TSR did in the old days.

Quote from: J ArcaneThat's because most of the settings have been paired with extensive houserules and rewrites and sold as seperate games.  

If you look at the D20 market for what it actually is, a whole mess of D&D houserules, there's quite a lot of it floating around, far more than TSR did in the old days.

True, though in many cases, the rules were substandard (Oathbound, though I love it as a setting, breaks my heart with some of its rules flubs), and more to the point, it's not so much that I wan't X number of settings, I wanted the good ones they decided to publish.

In the 2e era, they had a lot of settings that never really sold well. PS and Dark Sun always seem to sell better than many of their less successful experiments; I really wondered if with the right team they could make them float. I've always thought it wasn't so much about they wouldn't have been possible as "opportunity cost" forced wizards to other plans.

Economic reality-> <-gamers.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadTrue, though in many cases, the rules were substandard (Oathbound, though I love it as a setting, breaks my heart with some of its rules flubs), and more to the point, it's not so much that I wan't X number of settings, I wanted the good ones they decided to publish.

In the 2e era, they had a lot of settings that never really sold well. PS and Dark Sun always seem to sell better than many of their less successful experiments; I really wondered if with the right team they could make them float. I've always thought it wasn't so much about they wouldn't have been possible as "opportunity cost" forced wizards to other plans.

Economic reality-> <-gamers.

I think Planescape was the famous boxset that Wizards later figured out actually cost TSR per sale. But because the unit sales were so good, TSR never noticed (its management being...unreliable at best during that time.)

Quote from: Abyssal MawOne of the guys who maintained one of the big offficial/non-official Planescape pages was a big D&D hater.

One of the guys who maintained the official/non-official Darksun material was also a big D&D hater.

Both of them eventually become forgies; Zak Arnston and the other guy I only know his LJ name: greyorm.

I rest my case. :pundit:

Quote from: LeSquideI think Planescape was the famous boxset that Wizards later figured out actually cost TSR per sale.

Not that I'd ever heard. The product that I heard of that cost TSR for each sale was Encyclopedia Magica (with its Faux Leather cover, bookmarks, etc.)

Quote from: J ArcaneThat's because most of the settings have been paired with extensive houserules and rewrites and sold as seperate games.  

If you look at the D20 market for what it actually is, a whole mess of D&D houserules, there's quite a lot of it floating around, far more than TSR did in the old days.

Exactly. What's more, the stranger the setting, the greater the need for houserules (like the spelljamming rules in Spelljammer), and thus the more it makes sense to just sell it as a separate game.

The really shitty art.

I never warmed to planescape. Didn't really like the cosmology. Preferred the (more infinite, less defined) version in gold box Immortals rules for classic D&D.