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Author Topic: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"  (Read 23861 times)

King Tyranno

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #300 on: September 24, 2021, 04:04:04 PM »
I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is about how SJWs (like me) are taking over the hobby. 

Which is weird since I've been playing for 35 years . 

But I don't have an issue finding people I enjoy playing with.  And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share how the election was stolen (it wasn't), or how I need to do my own research on vaccines from some very disreputable sources (I don't, and if you look at reputable sources the benefits of vaccines are unmistakable), or how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.  In this day and age, what I'd consider the worst sorts of MRA incel white-supremacist assholes can't help but reveal themselves, and my gaming is better for it.

Wait an hour. Then edit your post. You'll know why soon.  Also why the fuck are you here?

Shasarak

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #301 on: September 24, 2021, 04:08:36 PM »
And I thought someone said two seconds ago that you can’t spot crazy.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Ocule

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #302 on: September 24, 2021, 04:17:10 PM »
I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is about how SJWs (like me) are taking over the hobby. 

Which is weird since I've been playing for 35 years . 

But I don't have an issue finding people I enjoy playing with.  And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share how the election was stolen (it wasn't), or how I need to do my own research on vaccines from some very disreputable sources (I don't, and if you look at reputable sources the benefits of vaccines are unmistakable), or how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.  In this day and age, what I'd consider the worst sorts of MRA incel white-supremacist assholes can't help but reveal themselves, and my gaming is better for it.

You sound like a fun, sophist kind of guy. 
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zagreus

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #303 on: September 24, 2021, 04:17:52 PM »
I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is about how SJWs (like me) are taking over the hobby. 

Which is weird since I've been playing for 35 years . 

But I don't have an issue finding people I enjoy playing with.  And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share how the election was stolen (it wasn't), or how I need to do my own research on vaccines from some very disreputable sources (I don't, and if you look at reputable sources the benefits of vaccines are unmistakable), or how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.  In this day and age, what I'd consider the worst sorts of MRA incel white-supremacist assholes can't help but reveal themselves, and my gaming is better for it.

I can see you not wanting to play with people whose politics are on the other extreme of yours, but - honestly- how the F is an "adventurer" going to be adventuring in a wheelchair?  This is where the game becomes ABOUT representation rather than telling a story/running a game that makes any sense.   

Unless the GM is telling a story where the "adventure" is in A) a modern day city  or B) magical PC fantasy land with tons of wheelchair accessible ramps or C) said wheelchair bound PC is a high-level wizard and just has her wheelchair float about at will (which also begs the question- why doesn't she have some other sort of solution for her handicap than a "floating wheelchair") isn't it JUST for representation?

Let's send the Wheelchair bound PC, assuming she's a wizard, and send her on a typical adventure- in- let's say Greyhawk.  She's dead.  Assuming she survives apprenticeship, she doesn't get past first level.  It does not happen.  Unless it's scenario A or B and the world is built around handicapped characters.  And ALL the pseudo-medieval trappings are just completely thrown out.   There are other worlds out there, I suppose, but who is playing in those? (i.e. playing D&D in worlds lacking pseudo medieval trappings)  How many are playing in games with a ramp to the dangerous situation? 

"Oooh, there's a convenient paved ramp to the dragon's lair... Let's go!"
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 04:21:53 PM by zagreus »

Ocule

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #304 on: September 24, 2021, 04:26:47 PM »
I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is about how SJWs (like me) are taking over the hobby. 

Which is weird since I've been playing for 35 years . 

But I don't have an issue finding people I enjoy playing with.  And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share how the election was stolen (it wasn't), or how I need to do my own research on vaccines from some very disreputable sources (I don't, and if you look at reputable sources the benefits of vaccines are unmistakable), or how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.  In this day and age, what I'd consider the worst sorts of MRA incel white-supremacist assholes can't help but reveal themselves, and my gaming is better for it.

I can see you not wanting to play with people whose politics are on the other extreme of yours, but - honestly- how the F is an "adventurer" going to be adventuring in a wheelchair?  This is where the game becomes ABOUT representation rather than telling a story/running a game that makes any sense.   

Unless the GM is telling a story where the "adventure" is in A) a modern day city  or B) magical PC fantasy land with tons of wheelchair accessible ramps or C) said wheelchair bound PC is a high-level wizard and just has her wheelchair float about at will (which also begs the question- why doesn't she have some other sort of solution for her handicap than a "floating wheelchair") isn't it JUST for representation?

Let's send the Wheelchair bound PC, assuming she's a wizard, and send her on a typical adventure- in- let's say Greyhawk.  She's dead.  Assuming she survives apprenticeship, she doesn't get past first level.  It does not happen.  Unless it's scenario A or B and the world is built around handicapped characters.  And ALL the pseudo-medieval trappings are just completely thrown out.   There are other worlds out there, I suppose, but who is playing in those? (i.e. playing D&D in worlds lacking pseudo medieval trappings)  How many are playing in games with a ramp to the dangerous situation? 

"Oooh, there's a convenient paved ramp to the dragon's lair... Let's go!"

After a certain point missing limbs just become a minor inconvenience to an adventurer because...magic is a thing.
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Abraxus

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #305 on: September 24, 2021, 04:27:43 PM »
I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is about how SJWs (like me) are taking over the hobby. 

Which is weird since I've been playing for 35 years . 

But I don't have an issue finding people I enjoy playing with.  And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share how the election was stolen (it wasn't), or how I need to do my own research on vaccines from some very disreputable sources (I don't, and if you look at reputable sources the benefits of vaccines are unmistakable), or how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.  In this day and age, what I'd consider the worst sorts of MRA incel white-supremacist assholes can't help but reveal themselves, and my gaming is better for it.

I can see you not wanting to play with people whose politics are on the other extreme of yours, but - honestly- how the F is an "adventurer" going to be adventuring in a wheelchair?  This is where the game becomes ABOUT representation rather than telling a story/running a game that makes any sense.   

Unless the GM is telling a story where the "adventure" is in A) a modern day city  or B) magical PC fantasy land with tons of wheelchair accessible ramps or C) said wheelchair bound PC is a high-level wizard and just has her wheelchair float about at will (which also begs the question- why doesn't she have some other sort of solution for her handicap than a "floating wheelchair") isn't it JUST for representation?

Let's send the Wheelchair bound PC, assuming she's a wizard, and send her on a typical adventure- in- let's say Greyhawk.  She's dead.  Assuming she survives apprenticeship, she doesn't get past first level.  It does not happen.  Unless it's scenario A or B and the world is built around handicapped characters.  And ALL the pseudo-medieval trappings are just completely thrown out.   There are other worlds out there, I suppose, but who is playing in those? (i.e. playing D&D in worlds lacking pseudo medieval trappings)  How many are playing in games with a ramp to the dangerous situation? 

"Oooh, there's a convenient paved ramp to the dragon's lair... Let's go!"

Agreed and seconded.

They essentially want to play Superman and not have a vulnerability to kryptonite. The Flash without being limited by the Speed Force. Batman having the strength of Superman. In short all the benefits of a character without can’t disadvantages.

Try and say otherwise and one is an abelist incel misogynistic. Fuck the SJW Twitter living cuck soy drinking normies. They can’t help but reveal themselves and it makes it easier to just cut them from my gaming and life.

Ratman_tf

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #306 on: September 24, 2021, 05:25:39 PM »
Unless the GM is telling a story where the "adventure" is in A) a modern day city  or B) magical PC fantasy land with tons of wheelchair accessible ramps or C) said wheelchair bound PC is a high-level wizard and just has her wheelchair float about at will (which also begs the question- why doesn't she have some other sort of solution for her handicap than a "floating wheelchair") isn't it JUST for representation?

Worse, it becomes affectation. The appearance of disability as a fashion statement.
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DM_Curt

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #307 on: September 24, 2021, 05:36:08 PM »
.... 
And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share..<snip>..how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.
.....
I wouldn't say it ruins the hobby, but it requires that the DM run a very specific and unusual game, with specific intention to make that concept work.
-Low magic, but the detriments of trying to run a nonmagical wheelchair through swordplay or dungeoneering are hand-waved.
-High magic, but yet healing magic doesn't solve the problem.

SHARK

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #308 on: September 24, 2021, 11:38:32 PM »
Greetings!

*Laughing* Any soy-drinking, sniveling crybaby attempting to play a wheelchair-bound cripple in my world would face a swift and grim fate--as the rest of the athletic, in-shape player characters flee for their lives from pursuing Tyrannosaurs--the slow, lagging-behind cripple would be the first character pounced on and fucking devoured by the Tyrannosaurs!

Awww--time to roll up a new character, cupcake! ;D

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Prairie Dragon

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #309 on: September 25, 2021, 12:05:00 AM »
A wheelchair has been used to help tell some great stories IMHO.  Brandon Stark.  Xavier.  Probably a few others.  Physically challenged characters have existed in Mythology as well  There are a lot of games out there that have game mechanics that would enable a character concept where a wheelchair bound individual could participate.  Sure, in a High Fantasy context; physically challenged characters wouldn't be played unless the player wanted to play one-for whatever reason...I wouldn't object to it. YMMV

deadDMwalking

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #310 on: September 25, 2021, 12:04:51 PM »
If a character can figure out how to bring a centaur to the adventure, then you probably can figure out how to bring a wheelchair on an adventure. 

And maybe sometimes that means being carried around some of the time.

Different folks, different strokes.  My gaming isn't threatened when others choose to make disadvantaged characters easier to include.  I certainly don't feel the need to rain on their parade by announcing in advance that any PC with a disability will get eaten by dinosaurs, rather than give it an honest try.  No need to put on training wheels - a character that chooses disadvantages has to overcome those disadvantages - but I can definitely see the appeal. 

And yes, there are clearly numerous characters in at least source-adjacent material that deal with limited mobility in one form or another.  As for magic as a solution?  Depends on the campaign. 

I kinda feel like a world with dragons that features numerous retired adventurers who are missing a limb or two makes the world feel more realistic, not less.
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jhkim

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #311 on: September 25, 2021, 02:41:59 PM »
*Laughing* Any soy-drinking, sniveling crybaby attempting to play a wheelchair-bound cripple in my world would face a swift and grim fate--as the rest of the athletic, in-shape player characters flee for their lives from pursuing Tyrannosaurs--the slow, lagging-behind cripple would be the first character pounced on and fucking devoured by the Tyrannosaurs!

Awww--time to roll up a new character, cupcake! ;D

(sarcasm)
Yeah, that reminds me of this dumbass fantasy series where there's a bunch of pathetic, sniveling midgets who can't fight worth a damn, ride, or even run. They're dragged along by the real heroes. In a serious game, the real heroes would have just ditched them and taken their stuff, and those loser snowflakes would have had to roll up new characters.
(/sarcasm)

Seriously, I haven't had much wheelchairs, but I've had lots of fun with other weak and/or disabled characters in my games. I had a previous topic "Cool uses of disabilities in games" that covered some of these, but there are more that come to mind.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 02:47:25 PM by jhkim »

Pat

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #312 on: September 25, 2021, 03:20:29 PM »
(sarcasm)
Yeah, that reminds me of this dumbass fantasy series where there's a bunch of pathetic, sniveling midgets who can't fight worth a damn, ride, or even run. They're dragged along by the real heroes. In a serious game, the real heroes would have just ditched them and taken their stuff, and those loser snowflakes would have had to roll up new characters.
(/sarcasm)
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #313 on: September 25, 2021, 03:36:53 PM »
deadDMwalking avoids talking about anything in good faith. Its not worth discussing with him. He feigns politeness, but sees anybody that disagrees with him as a moron/evil/ignorant/ bad person.

This is a person with a mind made up that they have figured out who is good and who is bad, and anything that tries to add nuance to the picture are just duplicitous people trying to avoid judgement.

Jaeger

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #314 on: September 25, 2021, 04:37:55 PM »
A wheelchair has been used to help tell some great stories IMHO.  Brandon Stark.  Xavier.  Probably a few others.  ...

There is a difference between stories, and a game where you have to sit down with three other people to play that a lot of "Combat wheelchair advocates" are missing.

Brandon Stark, Xavier, are fine in their media. But at a gaming table?

Nobody liked old school netrunning mechanics back in the day when everyone else was put on pause, and the hacker ran his little side quest for 20 minutes defeating the ICE in the buildings security.

The latest editions of any cyberpunk game have all taken steps to eliminate that mode of play in their game mechanics.

Specifically because nobody liked it.

Characters with astral projection abilities fall into the same category. Not a common feature in games because it invariably runs into the same old school netrunning issues at the table during play.

RPGs are derivative of wargames. And they work best when the PC group (which are all variants of a Spec Ops team, no matter the genre), are able to seamlessly work  together during the action.



Worse, it becomes affectation. The appearance of disability as a fashion statement.

It is also a way of making all the other players in the group continually conform their PCs actions around the specific limitations one character brings to the party.

What's hilarious is that the "combat wheelchair" is being heavily pushed within the D&D sphere as a 'viable' thing.

Yet in all the 'combat wheelchair' art I have seen, the 'PC' still has both legs... WTF!?  Do these people not realize that in 5e D&D RAW that the PC will be able to walk the first time they get hit with any kind of magical healing?

Its rather interesting how their power gaming 'combat wheelchair' fantasy art seems to depict lots of paraplegics, but no amputee's...


To bring it back on topic: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"

We Don't. We play the long game, and go around them.

We set up parallel institutions and games, then deny the SJWs entry as they inevitably run everything they control into the ground.

Let them eat cake. It's the only way.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 04:41:20 PM by Jaeger »
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