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Author Topic: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"  (Read 14785 times)

Ratman_tf

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #285 on: September 13, 2021, 04:26:16 PM »
Honestly, I wouldn't care at this point, as a little gatekeeping against the SJWs is what's needed. If Pundit and other creators made more money, became more visible and had more and more creators on that didn't buy into the SJW nonsense, I could put up with a little drama on the way.

The internet lives for drama. If there isn't any, some nitwits will create it.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #286 on: September 14, 2021, 11:35:19 AM »
Slightly deviating (but still relevant), Bill Willingham (of Fables, among other comics) wrote an interesting Substack column.

https://billwillingham.substack.com/p/why-are-some-comics-pros-so-damn

Now, substitute 'game devs' for 'comics pros'...

VengerSatanis

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #287 on: September 14, 2021, 01:19:52 PM »
Wasn't sure if this belonged here or in the rpg pundits own thread, but anyway I wanted to discuss what we can actually do about the SJWs in the hobby. I've been fighting the good fight for a while now, standing up to those sjw bullies whenever they pop their stupid little heads up. Usually i'll use logic and reason, other times i'll use sarcasm and mockery if i think they're too dense to get the former but it always ends the same. A banning from whatever website or platform it's being discussed on. Normally I wouldn't give a flying rats ass about being banned from a politically charged cesspool, but i'm starting to despair as one community after another falls to this cult. I use community as in specific groups, such as discords, facebook groups and internet forums. Othertimes it will be a game company who made a game i really used to enjoy, though i find it harder and harder to actually enjoy content while trying to overlook the obvious jabs and commentary in their actual products.

I'll buy into a game series, spend my hard earned cash on a line of products and get involved with other players finding people to play the game or discuss the hobby with. It seems great but then give it a year or so and next thing you know either the majority of the online communities or the company itself falls to woke bullshit. Often times you have a group or two that establishes itself as the officially sanctioned unofficial group, (see Genesys RPG, or Savage Worlds). The devs are usually part of that community and use it as an official platform to put out information or interact with their fans. So getting banned from a community is pretty can be pretty upsetting especially when you've already invested heavily into the game line. A bit anecdotal here, but I was banned from a community for discussing the half orcs and their origins. After talking with the admin I was told in no uncertain terms that if I had not been "right leaning" I would not have been banned and instead probably given a warning. I probably have around 400 dollars in physical merchandise from the game company associated in books and game aids. On the other hand with the Genesys RPG, there is an unofficial group that has set itself up as the defacto "community" and acts as if they were speaking on behalf of fantasy flight games and the rpg system, and the actual owners of the game don't seem to care.

Expanding this into OSR, i've found that OSR game communities are hit or miss and lately have been more miss than hit. I'm practically going blind from all the fucking rainbows. Hell even the WHFRP and 40k sites are going more and more woke to a disgusting degree. Not sure how a game with a literal rape monster ever got woke. I invested heavily into 5e D&D when it first came out as well until they got all woke (tomb of annihilation was the last straw for me) now they sit in a box in the attic.

Anyway the point to all this rambling besides just blowing off steam at my frustrations is how do we reasonably oppose these people and successfully gatekeep our hobby without getting yeeted from the internet or pretty much insta banned from a community. It has made me very hesitant to want to pick up new games because I hate to invest my time and money into a game where the devs hate me and would see me put in a fucking gulag if they could and what is apolitical or not woke today, won't necessarily be still apolitical or not woke tomorrow.

TL;DR How do we gatekeep the sjws/progressive nonsense without getting instantly yeeted off the internet.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxglAzZ-zTY

Thank you for creating this thread.  I'm going to read the whole thing today and will reply with some of my own thoughts and suggestions. 

For the moment, I just want to post a little something.  So, I'm already involved in 18 different RPG projects, and didn't want another thing to have to do... but when I suggested it, no one grasped the end and ran with it.  I decided to do it myself (again).  It's a satire blog that I'm going to run like The Onion and Babylon Bee.

Welcome to Your Dungeon Is Racist: https://yourdungeonisracist.blogspot.com/

Please share that url around, and if you have an idea you'd like to see explored, let me know.  Thanks!

VS

zagreus

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #288 on: Today at 08:39:08 AM »
Hmm...

I just felt I had to share.  Normally, I'm not "stop the SJWs" or whatever.  I'm not that guy.  I'm a moderate politically.  But...

I was reading about the whole "Jessica Price" thing here on this site, so I went to see what "The Big Purple" was saying, just to get more opinions, because I don't know anything about this stuff- but I was curious.  And the amount of bannings and "leave this thread" for - literally nothing!- made me feel sick.   Just "I have a little bit of power over a little piece of nothing, and I'm going to act like a big kahuna, just because I can." 

I honestly think those moderators are mentally ill, or they must feel so small in their day to day life they have to act like big dogs when they are running that board for a sense of self-esteem. 

So, it gave me some insight into the whole thing.  Shudder.  I'll go wash my brain now. 

Ghostmaker

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #289 on: Today at 08:52:28 AM »
Hmm...

I just felt I had to share.  Normally, I'm not "stop the SJWs" or whatever.  I'm not that guy.  I'm a moderate politically.  But...

I was reading about the whole "Jessica Price" thing here on this site, so I went to see what "The Big Purple" was saying, just to get more opinions, because I don't know anything about this stuff- but I was curious.  And the amount of bannings and "leave this thread" for - literally nothing!- made me feel sick.   Just "I have a little bit of power over a little piece of nothing, and I'm going to act like a big kahuna, just because I can." 

I honestly think those moderators are mentally ill, or they must feel so small in their day to day life they have to act like big dogs when they are running that board for a sense of self-esteem. 

So, it gave me some insight into the whole thing.  Shudder.  I'll go wash my brain now.
I've got a TBP thread running in the Pundit forum, if you want to check that out.

As a friend of mine noted, some of us just want to be left alone and to play our games. It's not a question of 'I don't like your game, therefore I won't play it'. Nobody gets excited over that.

It's 'I don't like your game and you shouldn't be allowed to play it without me removing the problematic elements'.

And that's how we've come to this state of affairs. Hence the freakout over the 'redlist' Ocule developed. How dare us dirty serfs start taking note of our betters and holding them to task (if nothing else, by refusing to buy their stuff)?

King Tyranno

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #290 on: Today at 09:35:25 AM »
Hmm...

I just felt I had to share.  Normally, I'm not "stop the SJWs" or whatever.  I'm not that guy.  I'm a moderate politically.  But...

I was reading about the whole "Jessica Price" thing here on this site, so I went to see what "The Big Purple" was saying, just to get more opinions, because I don't know anything about this stuff- but I was curious.  And the amount of bannings and "leave this thread" for - literally nothing!- made me feel sick.   Just "I have a little bit of power over a little piece of nothing, and I'm going to act like a big kahuna, just because I can." 

I honestly think those moderators are mentally ill, or they must feel so small in their day to day life they have to act like big dogs when they are running that board for a sense of self-esteem. 

So, it gave me some insight into the whole thing.  Shudder.  I'll go wash my brain now.

Not standing up to the SJWs is how we get women like Jessica Price and all like her. I get it. You want to be the "rational centrist" Antifa firebomb small businesses and steal Air Jordans but someone said the gamer word on twitter therefore both sides are full of extremists.

No. Stand up and say "this is unacceptable behavior.". Being anti SJW is not a political statement. Despite what the media will tell you. It's a return to sanity. You don't have to be right wing to say "I just want to play my games without you people shitting it up." You can still be a "rational centerist" and just fucking say "no" to people.

I saw this stuff happen in real time. I do understand where it's coming from. Being nerdy and having those kinds of interests was not popular. Most people of that persuasion can remember being ostracized and bullied by people. So in fear of being like those mean people the nerds become accepting and well meaning to a fault. The mentality is that LGSes and similar spaces are safe from bad people. You can be gay, lesbian, or just strange in some way and you will be accepted. I had no problem with this for over 20 years.  But because nerds are non-confrontational this meant that occasionally someone could turn up and be an absolute sperg with no consequence. It used to be saying to that guy "stop it. You're bothering everyone." was non political. Harmless. The right thing to do. Not that that always happened, sometimes the store owner didn't want to be seen as mean.  But it was understandable when those store owners finally put their foot down.

But those spergs then became male feminists, later they started identifying as a sheet of a4 paper neatly folded into a printer. And suddenly it wasn't okay to tell these guys to stop being bastards. It was somehow "sexist" or "transphobic" to tell the 30 year old creep to stop harassing the 16 year old girls who just wanted to play Magic. Over an 8 year period I saw my favorite LGS turn from a place full of all sorts of colorful people including real women and girls who wanted to engage with the hobby to a den of frankly all white 30 to 50 year old mentally ill men who scared off the women due to being creeps and not being told "NO!"by the people in power at the LGS.

This was a microcosom of RPGs and tabletop gaming in general. You're not sexist, you're not bigoted, hell you don't even have to be transphobic to at least point out and stop bad people from doing bad things and stop them from using politics as a deflection for their bad behavior.

zagreus

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #291 on: Today at 12:18:55 PM »
Hmm...

I just felt I had to share.  Normally, I'm not "stop the SJWs" or whatever.  I'm not that guy.  I'm a moderate politically.  But...

I was reading about the whole "Jessica Price" thing here on this site, so I went to see what "The Big Purple" was saying, just to get more opinions, because I don't know anything about this stuff- but I was curious.  And the amount of bannings and "leave this thread" for - literally nothing!- made me feel sick.   Just "I have a little bit of power over a little piece of nothing, and I'm going to act like a big kahuna, just because I can." 

I honestly think those moderators are mentally ill, or they must feel so small in their day to day life they have to act like big dogs when they are running that board for a sense of self-esteem. 

So, it gave me some insight into the whole thing.  Shudder.  I'll go wash my brain now.

Not standing up to the SJWs is how we get women like Jessica Price and all like her. I get it. You want to be the "rational centrist" Antifa firebomb small businesses and steal Air Jordans but someone said the gamer word on twitter therefore both sides are full of extremists.

No. Stand up and say "this is unacceptable behavior.". Being anti SJW is not a political statement. Despite what the media will tell you. It's a return to sanity. You don't have to be right wing to say "I just want to play my games without you people shitting it up." You can still be a "rational centerist" and just fucking say "no" to people.

I saw this stuff happen in real time. I do understand where it's coming from. Being nerdy and having those kinds of interests was not popular. Most people of that persuasion can remember being ostracized and bullied by people. So in fear of being like those mean people the nerds become accepting and well meaning to a fault. The mentality is that LGSes and similar spaces are safe from bad people. You can be gay, lesbian, or just strange in some way and you will be accepted. I had no problem with this for over 20 years.  But because nerds are non-confrontational this meant that occasionally someone could turn up and be an absolute sperg with no consequence. It used to be saying to that guy "stop it. You're bothering everyone." was non political. Harmless. The right thing to do. Not that that always happened, sometimes the store owner didn't want to be seen as mean.  But it was understandable when those store owners finally put their foot down.

But those spergs then became male feminists, later they started identifying as a sheet of a4 paper neatly folded into a printer. And suddenly it wasn't okay to tell these guys to stop being bastards. It was somehow "sexist" or "transphobic" to tell the 30 year old creep to stop harassing the 16 year old girls who just wanted to play Magic. Over an 8 year period I saw my favorite LGS turn from a place full of all sorts of colorful people including real women and girls who wanted to engage with the hobby to a den of frankly all white 30 to 50 year old mentally ill men who scared off the women due to being creeps and not being told "NO!"by the people in power at the LGS.

This was a microcosom of RPGs and tabletop gaming in general. You're not sexist, you're not bigoted, hell you don't even have to be transphobic to at least point out and stop bad people from doing bad things and stop them from using politics as a deflection for their bad behavior.

Thanks- you know, it's funny, I appreciate this response even if I don't personally agree with everything in it.  I think this is what separates this site- in particular what's going on over at "the big purple".  People can agree to disagree and it's cool. 

One of the things I did, when I ran a new game, is I chose Ars Magica as the game I ran.  In part because it is set in 1220 A.D.  Nothing is politically correct in 1220 AD.  So when I recruited new players, they would know that going in.  No bitching- we're playing in 1220 AD!  This isn't Forgotten Realms, where you can play your precious whatever fantasy land concept.  You can play your bizarro concept if you want, and the world will react accordingly.   

It does help having mostly players in their 40's, though.

jhkim

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #292 on: Today at 12:41:44 PM »
It was somehow "sexist" or "transphobic" to tell the 30 year old creep to stop harassing the 16 year old girls who just wanted to play Magic. Over an 8 year period I saw my favorite LGS turn from a place full of all sorts of colorful people including real women and girls who wanted to engage with the hobby to a den of frankly all white 30 to 50 year old mentally ill men who scared off the women due to being creeps and not being told "NO!"by the people in power at the LGS.

This was a microcosom of RPGs and tabletop gaming in general. You're not sexist, you're not bigoted, hell you don't even have to be transphobic to at least point out and stop bad people from doing bad things and stop them from using politics as a deflection for their bad behavior.

For me, it's non-political to stop 30 to 50 year old creeps of any sort from harassing teenage girls and young women at game stores. I'm signed on for that. I don't play in game stores, but my son does. We both play in a lot of local conventions, and try to stand up for decent behavior standards.

Ratman_tf

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #293 on: Today at 02:26:22 PM »
It was somehow "sexist" or "transphobic" to tell the 30 year old creep to stop harassing the 16 year old girls who just wanted to play Magic. Over an 8 year period I saw my favorite LGS turn from a place full of all sorts of colorful people including real women and girls who wanted to engage with the hobby to a den of frankly all white 30 to 50 year old mentally ill men who scared off the women due to being creeps and not being told "NO!"by the people in power at the LGS.

This was a microcosom of RPGs and tabletop gaming in general. You're not sexist, you're not bigoted, hell you don't even have to be transphobic to at least point out and stop bad people from doing bad things and stop them from using politics as a deflection for their bad behavior.

For me, it's non-political to stop 30 to 50 year old creeps of any sort from harassing teenage girls and young women at game stores. I'm signed on for that. I don't play in game stores, but my son does. We both play in a lot of local conventions, and try to stand up for decent behavior standards.

Yes, but the social justice types have created an environment where politics do matter, and even abstaining from the politics is seen as political, and abusive people can and do ride that system into situations where they have some amount of power over others.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

deadDMwalking

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #294 on: Today at 02:39:39 PM »
I don't care who you are, of course politics matters.  Sometimes it's okay to agree to disagree (like what the highest marginal tax rate should be) and sometimes you don't want to associate with someone who's 'solution' to illegal immigration is automated machine guns at the border. 

"It's just my opinion, man" isn't a sufficient justification for people to feel compelled to hang out with you just because you're otherwise interested in the same niche hobby. 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

King Tyranno

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #295 on: Today at 02:44:18 PM »
I don't care who you are, of course politics matters.  Sometimes it's okay to agree to disagree (like what the highest marginal tax rate should be) and sometimes you don't want to associate with someone who's 'solution' to illegal immigration is automated machine guns at the border. 

"It's just my opinion, man" isn't a sufficient justification for people to feel compelled to hang out with you just because you're otherwise interested in the same niche hobby.

We don't need automatic machine guns. Just a wall.

sureshot

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #296 on: Today at 03:02:05 PM »
"It's just my opinion, man" isn't a sufficient justification for people to feel compelled to hang out with you just because you're otherwise interested in the same niche hobby.

“ Everything and anything is political” isn't a sufficient justification for people to feel compelled to hang out with you just because you're otherwise interested in the same niche hobby.


Funny how that works both ways.

Shasarak

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #297 on: Today at 03:44:30 PM »
I don't care who you are, of course politics matters.  Sometimes it's okay to agree to disagree (like what the highest marginal tax rate should be) and sometimes you don't want to associate with someone who's 'solution' to illegal immigration is automated machine guns at the border. 

"It's just my opinion, man" isn't a sufficient justification for people to feel compelled to hang out with you just because you're otherwise interested in the same niche hobby.

We don't need automatic machine guns. Just a wall.

Or if no wall then at least a bridge
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

deadDMwalking

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #298 on: Today at 03:49:14 PM »
I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is about how SJWs (like me) are taking over the hobby. 

Which is weird since I've been playing for 35 years . 

But I don't have an issue finding people I enjoy playing with.  And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share how the election was stolen (it wasn't), or how I need to do my own research on vaccines from some very disreputable sources (I don't, and if you look at reputable sources the benefits of vaccines are unmistakable), or how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.  In this day and age, what I'd consider the worst sorts of MRA incel white-supremacist assholes can't help but reveal themselves, and my gaming is better for it. 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Ratman_tf

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #299 on: Today at 04:01:04 PM »
I don't know if you noticed, but the OP is about how SJWs (like me) are taking over the hobby. 

Which is weird since I've been playing for 35 years . 

But I don't have an issue finding people I enjoy playing with.  And I wouldn't enjoy playing with people who can't help but share how the election was stolen (it wasn't), or how I need to do my own research on vaccines from some very disreputable sources (I don't, and if you look at reputable sources the benefits of vaccines are unmistakable), or how 'representation' like including wheelchairs for adventurers somehow ruins the hobby.  In this day and age, what I'd consider the worst sorts of MRA incel white-supremacist assholes can't help but reveal themselves, and my gaming is better for it.

The thread (and the larger discussion) is also about how the SJW movement has enabled shitty, asshole behavior from it's most vocal and prominent proponets.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung