Quote from: jeff37923 on July 18, 2021, 10:04:49 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2021, 07:11:58 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on July 09, 2021, 07:05:19 PM
As far as I can tell, the Satanic Panic was almost entirely an American tradition.

Oh it extended to other lands. Just not in the ways it did in the US. Spain and a few other countries for example STILL have regions where RPGs are illegal as they are marked as... gambling. This was an angle tried in the US too when screaming DEVIL! didnt work. But mercifully did not take off. Other countries it did and apparently no one has tried to abolish it as as of 2 weeks ago I was talking to someone in europe who could not play RPGs because of local law.

According to at least two sources though that law is not enforced all over Spain for example. But only in some cities.

Remember. If they cant get you one way they will try to concoct some excuse to get you another way.

Umm, there are notable exceptions to the RPGs = gambling not taking off in the US. In several prisons and jails in the US, RPGs are considered gambling and considered contraband for inmates.

Is that largely because of the dice? Would a diceless and cardless RPG be seen differently?

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 19, 2021, 12:42:10 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 18, 2021, 10:04:49 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2021, 07:11:58 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on July 09, 2021, 07:05:19 PM
As far as I can tell, the Satanic Panic was almost entirely an American tradition.

Oh it extended to other lands. Just not in the ways it did in the US. Spain and a few other countries for example STILL have regions where RPGs are illegal as they are marked as... gambling. This was an angle tried in the US too when screaming DEVIL! didnt work. But mercifully did not take off. Other countries it did and apparently no one has tried to abolish it as as of 2 weeks ago I was talking to someone in europe who could not play RPGs because of local law.

According to at least two sources though that law is not enforced all over Spain for example. But only in some cities.

Remember. If they cant get you one way they will try to concoct some excuse to get you another way.

Umm, there are notable exceptions to the RPGs = gambling not taking off in the US. In several prisons and jails in the US, RPGs are considered gambling and considered contraband for inmates.

Is that largely because of the dice? Would a diceless and cardless RPG be seen differently?

I think it is more than just the dice, I had a copy of  Dragon magazine bought by a customer on eBay and they asked me to ship it to an inmate at a penitentiary in Georgia. I contacted the prison and was told that in no uncertain terms that it was considered contraband, so I didn't ship it and refunded the sale. Have had no desire to look in to the subject further.

In yet another example of why everyone needs to drop WotC like it's a radioactive potato, here's what their parent company believes;



Anyone expecting Hasbro to eventually reign in WotC once WokeD&D starts to hemorrhage money is fooling themselves. Hasbro is in perfect ideological alignment with Woke WotC.

There's going to be a whole market segment for supporting disaffected players who prefer modern design without the woke politics as the push gets more obvious and OSR is not everyone's cup of tea.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 18, 2021, 09:22:34 PM

Quote from: palaeomerus on July 18, 2021, 08:36:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWMjjASidhE

Here we go. MtG D&D student life and prom.


Good troll SJWs. It's so completely a screw that I find it hard even to be mad. All I can do it nod. Ya got me. I'm done. Well done.

The article in question:

https://archive.is/YGoOO

Thanks GeekyBugle. The woke Ravenloft book was the final nail in the coffin for me, but the article was a "I'm glad I'm not spending anymore money on them" moment. It's like Pundit has said, they really do hate and want the brand to fail. They don't play the game, they just have found a target that they can destroy.

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 19, 2021, 12:42:10 AM
Is that largely because of the dice? Would a diceless and cardless RPG be seen differently?

Dice were the thing for a friend of mine who did time. They were still able to game by fashioning spinners out of cardboard as a replacement.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 19, 2021, 08:29:45 AM
In yet another example of why everyone needs to drop WotC like it's a radioactive potato, here's what their parent company believes;

Anyone expecting Hasbro to eventually reign in WotC once WokeD&D starts to hemorrhage money is fooling themselves. Hasbro is in perfect ideological alignment with Woke WotC.

There's going to be a whole market segment for supporting disaffected players who prefer modern design without the woke politics as the push gets more obvious and OSR is not everyone's cup of tea.

As the saying goes, we still have our old books. This is a grand opportunity for 3rd party creators too.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVZu5ENHog[/youtube]

Quote from: Ratman_tf on July 19, 2021, 10:54:48 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 19, 2021, 08:29:45 AM
In yet another example of why everyone needs to drop WotC like it's a radioactive potato, here's what their parent company believes;

Anyone expecting Hasbro to eventually reign in WotC once WokeD&D starts to hemorrhage money is fooling themselves. Hasbro is in perfect ideological alignment with Woke WotC.

There's going to be a whole market segment for supporting disaffected players who prefer modern design without the woke politics as the push gets more obvious and OSR is not everyone's cup of tea.

As the saying goes, we still have our old books. This is a grand opportunity for 3rd party creators too.

Exactly! And I know that an individual DM can really make the game what they want, so someone, maybe lots of ones, will find the Strixhaven book useful. And I'm sure it'll sell loads. I'm shaking my head at even the idea though, that the devs were reminiscing about their college days and decided to make Modern 5e. And the art style of the book is unappealing to me, subjective I know.

Quote from: tenbones on July 18, 2021, 03:19:31 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 17, 2021, 11:32:48 PM
Savage Worlds was kowtoeing to the SJWs a few years ago wo will not surprise me at all if they go full on supporter.

Is this a reference to the Confederate Army thing in Deadlands? Shane pretty clearly answered that. They're revamping the entire Deadlands line and the Confederacy didn't fit into it. I'm actually not sure it *ever* fit into the Deadlands metaplot - which in point of fact, even in the current timeline which they collapse - they last longer than they did in the actual real world. He did it to clean up the narrative which he's tying back into their upcoming Deadlands Medieval. He made a big huge post about it.

If there is some other thing I'm not aware of - I'd love to hear it.

I don't support any of this SJW shit. I sure as fuck will drop Savage Worlds if they start.

The only thing it ever really did in my games is reinforce the idea of alternate history that it wasn't the same timeline you were playing in. It's removal got me suspicious especially since the coyote confederation and Sioux nations were left entirely intact. In my home game because the USA is now United again the power of the Indian nations has been greatly reduced. I was even considering removing the enchantment that made tech more difficult to use in the Sioux nations. A story arc or something about employing sorcerers to kill the thunderbirds responsible for it.

On the other side of things it made deadlands noir easier to run because of the whole world war thing going on.

Quote from: Ocule on July 19, 2021, 11:51:04 AM

Quote from: tenbones on July 18, 2021, 03:19:31 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 17, 2021, 11:32:48 PM
Savage Worlds was kowtoeing to the SJWs a few years ago wo will not surprise me at all if they go full on supporter.

Is this a reference to the Confederate Army thing in Deadlands? Shane pretty clearly answered that. They're revamping the entire Deadlands line and the Confederacy didn't fit into it. I'm actually not sure it *ever* fit into the Deadlands metaplot - which in point of fact, even in the current timeline which they collapse - they last longer than they did in the actual real world. He did it to clean up the narrative which he's tying back into their upcoming Deadlands Medieval. He made a big huge post about it.

If there is some other thing I'm not aware of - I'd love to hear it.

I don't support any of this SJW shit. I sure as fuck will drop Savage Worlds if they start.

The only thing it ever really did in my games is reinforce the idea of alternate history that it wasn't the same timeline you were playing in. It's removal got me suspicious especially since the coyote confederation and Sioux nations were left entirely intact. In my home game because the USA is now United again the power of the Indian nations has been greatly reduced. I was even considering removing the enchantment that made tech more difficult to use in the Sioux nations. A story arc or something about employing sorcerers to kill the thunderbirds responsible for it.

On the other side of things it made deadlands noir easier to run because of the whole world war thing going on.

Zeppelins with dalgrens and gatlings mounted on them should do the trick.  Oh and armor plating, can't forget that.  Sky Dreadnaughts I say!

Quote from: Ratman_tf on July 19, 2021, 11:04:06 AM
BWAHAHAHAHA!

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVZu5ENHog[/youtube]

When you can't separate the artist from the art, clearly the hood is code for the KKK and the artist supports them.  And if you disagree you support the KKK too!

I still remember some critics (one critic?) of Lovecraft saying how his works were sexually perverse (even, dare I say it, homosexual in nature!) and that his fans must be closeted homosexuals as well.  The great monstrous Cthulhu's tentacled face representing Lovecraft's discomfort with the form of the labia.  Then smart people stepped in, calmed everyone the fuck down with opinions based more on facts, and now people know better.  Now we have to give at least a paragraph of handwringing over how racist Lovecraft was before milking his brand name for our own profit.*

Point being: this sort of "guilt by association" censorship tactic predates the woke kiddies running around.  I've seen the conservative right use it a lot, and now I watch the liberal left do it.  Almost like it's less politics and more just loud mouths wanting to control people.

Also: why the fuck is it wrong for the baddies to dress like baddies?  While I like the mask, to me the hood -humanizes- Cobra Commander and makes him seem more like he could be anyone.

(*I look forward to the day when every discussion of John Lennon -has- to mention how he was an abusive asshole to his family.  Mainly because I can't stand the guy's music.)

Quote from: Ocule on July 19, 2021, 11:51:04 AM

Quote from: tenbones on July 18, 2021, 03:19:31 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 17, 2021, 11:32:48 PM
Savage Worlds was kowtoeing to the SJWs a few years ago wo will not surprise me at all if they go full on supporter.

Is this a reference to the Confederate Army thing in Deadlands? Shane pretty clearly answered that. They're revamping the entire Deadlands line and the Confederacy didn't fit into it. I'm actually not sure it *ever* fit into the Deadlands metaplot - which in point of fact, even in the current timeline which they collapse - they last longer than they did in the actual real world. He did it to clean up the narrative which he's tying back into their upcoming Deadlands Medieval. He made a big huge post about it.

If there is some other thing I'm not aware of - I'd love to hear it.

I don't support any of this SJW shit. I sure as fuck will drop Savage Worlds if they start.

The only thing it ever really did in my games is reinforce the idea of alternate history that it wasn't the same timeline you were playing in. It's removal got me suspicious especially since the coyote confederation and Sioux nations were left entirely intact. In my home game because the USA is now United again the power of the Indian nations has been greatly reduced. I was even considering removing the enchantment that made tech more difficult to use in the Sioux nations. A story arc or something about employing sorcerers to kill the thunderbirds responsible for it.

On the other side of things it made deadlands noir easier to run because of the whole world war thing going on.

I'll be honest - I never liked the metaplot of Deadlands anyhow. I have zero interest in metaplots writ-large and my next Deadlands game will likely still have the Confederation, but that's because pretty much any game I run is an "alternate" timeline to whatever a company offers up as "official".

My games tend to go deeper than plot-point/module fare. So by necessity, most metaplots get blown to smithereens on contact. But I'll take what I like and discard what I don't. Easy peasy. I promise no actual Indians, Whites, Mexicans, Blacks or Asians will be harmed at the privacy of my table.

Quote from: tenbones on July 20, 2021, 12:40:46 PM

I'll be honest - I never liked the metaplot of Deadlands anyhow. I have zero interest in metaplots writ-large and my next Deadlands game will likely still have the Confederation, but that's because pretty much any game I run is an "alternate" timeline to whatever a company offers up as "official".

My games tend to go deeper than plot-point/module fare. So by necessity, most metaplots get blown to smithereens on contact. But I'll take what I like and discard what I don't. Easy peasy. I promise no actual Indians, Whites, Mexicans, Blacks or Asians will be harmed at the privacy of my table.

The concept of microaggressions was invented so neither you nor your players have control over whether you or they were harmed, by turning the concept of harm into a slurry of subjectivity and goofy crypto-ism detection. See, the idea is the oppressor is programmed to oppress and can't tell when they are doing it, and the oppressed are like wise conditioned to be oppressed and can't tell when it is happening so to piece the veil of false consciousness they need woke critical theory to train them to be upset so they join in the revolutionary actions. No one can see the truth until they submit to experience guided hysteria and hallucinations. Those who refuse are nekulturny.

That's bear we all have running loose in our mutual corn crib thanks to GeekInc. and WotC/Paizo reprocessing the hobby out of the garage/basement and into a community space. 

sigh.

Also as an unsolicited irrelevance:

I believe that if the Confederacy had survived it would have been a 2nd English and French speaking Mexico probably with a lot of Catholic influence growing. It would have had to drop slavery for share cropping since slavery was already dead ending 50 years before the civil war and most of the wealth would have been land ownership by the very rich but maybe not so wealthy. Slaves would probably still exist but mostly in the Caribbean and I expect the Confederacy would have eventually attempted some Gulf island adventurism. Probably some of it would have been lost to Mexico eventually. Probably would have looked like Central America only farther north by WW1 including having its won Simon Bolivar type. I suspect we would have lost Texas and Louisiana in an oil rush where the MA war happens just not in Mexico and a little bit later just to grab some nice oil reserves and ports again.

My reasons for believing this are probably not quite based on history but I do have certain biases on what kind of institution will do what over time and the Confederacy seemed like a Franco-Anglo take on producing a 2nd Mexico with a lot of Papal influence.

Obviously it's not worth much even if I put a lot of work into it. Just by prejudices on old landed gentry type systems and how they plod along.

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on July 20, 2021, 11:31:29 AM
While I like the mask, to me the hood -humanizes- Cobra Commander and makes him seem more like he could be anyone.

Ah ha! Which means that anyone could be a secret KKK member because everyone already is a secret KKK member!