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Author Topic: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"  (Read 13824 times)

GeekyBugle

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2021, 12:12:29 AM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

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HappyDaze

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2021, 07:09:58 AM »
The SJW’s don’t buy games.  They don’t play games.
I'm not sure where you get this idea from; I have a very woke couple in the extended circle that I game with from time to time. They buy more games than anyone in the group other that myself and one other guy (but he exclusively buys board games). And yes, they play everything that they buy along with whatever the rest of us buy too. Of course, some will say they must not be "True SJWs" if they are buying & playing games, but the headaches that result from having out of game conversations with them tell me otherwise.

HappyDaze

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2021, 07:12:19 AM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.
Why not use the weapons and tactics of the enemy against them?  No one gives a damn about our free speech.
Well, that's one way to destroy your own position without your "enemy" having to do a damn thing. You want to do suicide tactics, that's on you, but that's just stupid in the long run.

HappyDaze

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2021, 07:15:57 AM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.
I know a few rather woke people IRL. They never try to stop me from speaking even when they don't necessarily like what I have to say. Maybe the real answer is that it's best to have face to face conversations rather than social media exchanges because the internet turns people into assholes--both in encouraging them to act that way and increasing the perception of that even when that isn't the intent.

Ka'arl Sorcerer of Cha'alt

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2021, 09:26:14 AM »
The Liberal woke agenda is Racist and evil. They are literally telling people they are lesser and unworthy because of their skin color. That used to be EVERYONES definition of evil.

I have leftist friends and family that I love and we can have different views and that's fine, having evil views that cause misery and death is not fine and I confront them every single time. For the longest time I didn't want to rock the boat and their ideology while I felt was wrong..it wasn't evil. I didn't want confrontation so I just let it slide.

This just isn't the case anymore and I'm starting to think never was. It's everywhere, it's coming at me from every side. People who I considered good people are saying this most horrible things and I have no choice, I confront those ideas and those I can get to engage with my logically and with emotional maturity I have started to reach. Those that I can't reach have started to cut me off and double down in their insanity.

This is hard. I don't want to do this but if we just ignore it and keep our heads down we know from history what this brings.

 Confront ideas and thoughts not people. Those horrible evil ideas could never survive in the light of debate. They never could, it's only in silence and fear that they gain in power. That's why they seek to shut down any debate. They know what it brings.

Ratman_tf

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2021, 10:37:34 AM »
The Liberal woke agenda is Racist and evil. They are literally telling people they are lesser and unworthy because of their skin color. That used to be EVERYONES definition of evil.

I have leftist friends and family that I love and we can have different views and that's fine, having evil views that cause misery and death is not fine and I confront them every single time. For the longest time I didn't want to rock the boat and their ideology while I felt was wrong..it wasn't evil. I didn't want confrontation so I just let it slide.

This just isn't the case anymore and I'm starting to think never was. It's everywhere, it's coming at me from every side. People who I considered good people are saying this most horrible things and I have no choice, I confront those ideas and those I can get to engage with my logically and with emotional maturity I have started to reach. Those that I can't reach have started to cut me off and double down in their insanity.

This is hard. I don't want to do this but if we just ignore it and keep our heads down we know from history what this brings.

 Confront ideas and thoughts not people. Those horrible evil ideas could never survive in the light of debate. They never could, it's only in silence and fear that they gain in power. That's why they seek to shut down any debate. They know what it brings.

I think this is it. If enough people stop sticking their heads in the sand, and just simply say "No" to this crap, it will fizzle out. The problem is that requires someone to stand up to their peer group. And that risks alienation. That's rough.
I think the big pushback is a result of the wokesters getting so full of themselves, that even head-in-sand people can't stand it anymore.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Pat

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2021, 11:07:54 AM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.
Sure you will. Just don't give them to power to censor.

Ratman_tf

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2021, 11:11:06 AM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.
Sure you will. Just don't give them to power to censor.

It's not Censorship. It's Consequences. [/s]
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Dapig

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2021, 11:29:59 AM »
The SJW’s don’t buy games.  They don’t play games.
I'm not sure where you get this idea from; I have a very woke couple in the extended circle that I game with from time to time. They buy more games than anyone in the group other that myself and one other guy (but he exclusively buys board games). And yes, they play everything that they buy along with whatever the rest of us buy too. Of course, some will say they must not be "True SJWs" if they are buying & playing games, but the headaches that result from having out of game conversations with them tell me otherwise.

This is the real question: how much of the market does woke account for in terms of purchases regardless of number of people.

For example, I was buying “a lot” and completely stopped due to sjw nonsense a while back.  Some people buy e phb and move on.  Clearly I count as more than one of them in terms of revenue.

Your anecdotal point is well taken: do sjw folks actually comprise a lot of the market?  I don’t have data.  Let’s go with Pundit and others and assume this shit is noxious to most people, more than 50%. 

Most folks are nonetheless just going with the flow anyway and buying it while holding their nose if these assumptions are true.  Those are the people who need to be reached and brought on board with boycotting bullshit.  That’s the me of yesterday judging from my bookshelf.

There are not enough committed anti-sjw folks to make a big enough market difference is my guess unless more of us are whales in terms of purchasing power or allocated purchasing power.

As such, voting with wallet is likely to be insufficient.  Same people also have to win the war of ideas and spread the word moving forward.
AD&D 1e, D&D 5e

jhkim

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2021, 11:42:14 AM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.

If you ban any using the word "bigot" then that isn't free speech. On the other hand, as I said, in the current environment, I don't think that MAGA-hat-wearer gamers and BLM-shirt-wearing gamers will be able to game together in peace. Thus, I think allowing full free speech isn't compatible with a focus on fun, non-political gaming together.

You can either have a free-for-all convention space that could be disrupted by political arguments and confrontations, or you can have a moderated convention space that focuses on gaming.

IMO, the latter is fine. A game convention isn't a public forum. Organizers can and should ban people for saying things that are legal speech, but disruptive to the gaming environment.

oggsmash

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2021, 11:48:33 AM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.

If you ban any using the word "bigot" then that isn't free speech. On the other hand, as I said, in the current environment, I don't think that MAGA-hat-wearer gamers and BLM-shirt-wearing gamers will be able to game together in peace. Thus, I think allowing full free speech isn't compatible with a focus on fun, non-political gaming together.

You can either have a free-for-all convention space that could be disrupted by political arguments and confrontations, or you can have a moderated convention space that focuses on gaming.

IMO, the latter is fine. A game convention isn't a public forum. Organizers can and should ban people for saying things that are legal speech, but disruptive to the gaming environment.

  I agree with this in theory,  However in practice it means you will keep your mouth shut when people espouse the wonders of the BLM organization and movement, and be promptly banned for saying there are gamers out there who have no interest in gender identity issues.   So it is not in any way moderated in a centrist way.   

Ratman_tf

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2021, 12:30:56 PM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.

If you ban any using the word "bigot" then that isn't free speech. On the other hand, as I said, in the current environment, I don't think that MAGA-hat-wearer gamers and BLM-shirt-wearing gamers will be able to game together in peace. Thus, I think allowing full free speech isn't compatible with a focus on fun, non-political gaming together.

You can either have a free-for-all convention space that could be disrupted by political arguments and confrontations, or you can have a moderated convention space that focuses on gaming.

IMO, the latter is fine. A game convention isn't a public forum. Organizers can and should ban people for saying things that are legal speech, but disruptive to the gaming environment.

  I agree with this in theory,  However in practice it means you will keep your mouth shut when people espouse the wonders of the BLM organization and movement, and be promptly banned for saying there are gamers out there who have no interest in gender identity issues.   So it is not in any way moderated in a centrist way.

That's the trick, ain't it? A few vocal assholes make things political, and then you either have to let them walk all over everyone else, or push back and get accused of "making things political".
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

oggsmash

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2021, 12:34:42 PM »
We could restrict words too.  Like if someone uses the word “Bigot”, “racist”, “ableist”, “[whatever]phobe”, in any sort of accusatory way, they could get banned for “inciting hatred” or some such.
You don't support free speech by restricting it.

You won't have free speech if you allow the woke in.

If you ban any using the word "bigot" then that isn't free speech. On the other hand, as I said, in the current environment, I don't think that MAGA-hat-wearer gamers and BLM-shirt-wearing gamers will be able to game together in peace. Thus, I think allowing full free speech isn't compatible with a focus on fun, non-political gaming together.

You can either have a free-for-all convention space that could be disrupted by political arguments and confrontations, or you can have a moderated convention space that focuses on gaming.

IMO, the latter is fine. A game convention isn't a public forum. Organizers can and should ban people for saying things that are legal speech, but disruptive to the gaming environment.

  I agree with this in theory,  However in practice it means you will keep your mouth shut when people espouse the wonders of the BLM organization and movement, and be promptly banned for saying there are gamers out there who have no interest in gender identity issues.   So it is not in any way moderated in a centrist way.

That's the trick, ain't it? A few vocal assholes make things political, and then you either have to let them walk all over everyone else, or push back and get accused of "making things political".

    Yeah, and the same people saying such a thing and feeling a moderated, private Con is ok with doing some things they think will keep the peace;  likely shit a brick if a baker doesnt want to bake a cake for a gay wedding because he is christian.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2021, 12:39:44 PM »
We need to completely reject the idea that RPGs should be judge on such criteria. That is the only way out of this mess.

Yes. The reason why SJWs loose every battle but win the war, is because their nonsense true-isms have been brainwashed into public belief by repitition.

jhkim

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Re: RE: "How do we stop the D&D SJWs now"
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2021, 04:45:56 PM »
If you ban any using the word "bigot" then that isn't free speech. On the other hand, as I said, in the current environment, I don't think that MAGA-hat-wearer gamers and BLM-shirt-wearing gamers will be able to game together in peace. Thus, I think allowing full free speech isn't compatible with a focus on fun, non-political gaming together.

You can either have a free-for-all convention space that could be disrupted by political arguments and confrontations, or you can have a moderated convention space that focuses on gaming.

IMO, the latter is fine. A game convention isn't a public forum. Organizers can and should ban people for saying things that are legal speech, but disruptive to the gaming environment.

  I agree with this in theory,  However in practice it means you will keep your mouth shut when people espouse the wonders of the BLM organization and movement, and be promptly banned for saying there are gamers out there who have no interest in gender identity issues.   So it is not in any way moderated in a centrist way.

Is that true of local conventions in conservative areas? I'm in the SF Bay Area, and that's a fair cop here -- but I would think it depends who is moderating it. I don't have a problem with any of centrist or left-leaning or right-leaning moderation, but centrist isn't the same as free-for-all. It would still be effectively banning people outside the mainstream as disruptive. It means that people with radical views need to keep their mouths shut and not speak up about the centrist stuff being expressed.


That's the trick, ain't it? A few vocal assholes make things political, and then you either have to let them walk all over everyone else, or push back and get accused of "making things political".

    Yeah, and the same people saying such a thing and feeling a moderated, private Con is ok with doing some things they think will keep the peace;  likely shit a brick if a baker doesnt want to bake a cake for a gay wedding because he is christian.

Everyone has their differing lines about what is the line between acceptable discrimination, and unacceptable discrimination. Some of this will depend on the venue, and some will be on what is being discriminated on.

To keep this on gaming: For me, a private game is absolutely in their rights to ban from someone from joining if they are gay -- but I don't think it would be acceptable for a typical game store to ban customers for being gay. A game convention is somewhere in between. I don't know what the equivalent would be:  A Christian GM who doesn't allow gay players or perhaps gay characters in their game?