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Author Topic: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?  (Read 1217 times)

SHARK

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Greetings!

Yes, aside from the stupid book written some years ago, I was wondering, has this kind of attitude, philosophy, entered into the gaming hobby? It has definitely had a feminist "I need to destroy my family and find myself!" kind of influence in the culture, especially so upon women.

Pundit also mentioned the idea in one of his videos, so it made me think about it.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Svenhelgrim

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2022, 09:11:15 PM »
I am not sure exactly how the Eat, Pray, Love (EPL) mentality would manifest in a roleplaying game. 

We have always had murder-hobos, players who just want to kill, loot, and burn, so I guess you could say the “Burn, Loot, Murder” (BLM) mentality has always been strong in the games.

If you want to talk about divorce, you could say that todays d&d games have divorced themselves from alignment.  The removal of alignment restrictions from certain classes (I’m looking at you Mr. Chaotic Evil Oath of Vengeance, paladin). 

You don’t even need to worship a god anymore to get divine spells.  But if you want to be a Warlock, you have to sell your soul to some demon or devil…go figure.

One thing that really gets me is the unrestricted magic.  For example: a cantrip can be cast every six seconds, all day, every day.  I was reading a reddit post where a guy was designing a steam ship for his D&D character, that would be powered by the bonfire cantrip.  Hell six guys with the bonfire cantrip could probably power a small city. 

Everybody has spells now.  All that magic flying around means sooner-or-later there are going to be consequences.  That power has to come from somewhere.  And it has a price.

ForgottenF

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2022, 10:22:38 PM »
I guess you could make the argument that the "Eat Pray Love" book is basically about a person abrogating their responsibilities in order to pursue selfish gratification, and you could connect that to a general trend in fantasy and science fiction away from heroism and towards selfish and cynical motivations. You could also argue that the philosophy of embracing shallow, trendy ideas of spirituality and fulfillment, instead of the deeper sense of purpose which someone might obtain from deeper religious or family life, bleeds out into the rejection of alignment and the concept of cosmic morality in D&D.

But like the other poster pointed out, in both cases you run up against the fact that parties of selfish mercenaries and looters are a decades-old staple of the RPG hobby.

Where you might be on firmer ground would be in connecting the navel-gazing attitude of modern "self-care" ideology with the trend towards players being more concerned with the appearance and sexual identity of their character, rather than with the adventures they get into.

ForgottenF

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2022, 10:30:48 PM »

One thing that really gets me is the unrestricted magic.  For example: a cantrip can be cast every six seconds, all day, every day.  I was reading a reddit post where a guy was designing a steam ship for his D&D character, that would be powered by the bonfire cantrip.  Hell six guys with the bonfire cantrip could probably power a small city. 

Everybody has spells now.  All that magic flying around means sooner-or-later there are going to be consequences.  That power has to come from somewhere.  And it has a price.

D&D has definitely been moving in that direction for a while now. IIRC, infinite-use cantrips were introduced in 3rd edition, but they were much less powerful. I havea copy of the "Magical Medieval Society" supplement that was published for 3ed, and it has to bend over backwards to explain all the ways that plentiful magic would alter a medieval society.

You could lean into that aspect and create a consistent setting, but no one wants to. The problem is that in a world where large numbers of people are able to create food, water, matter and energy from nothing, and heal almost any wound or disease, you would quickly find yourself solving all the problems which lead people to lives of adventure. It might be exaggerating, but you'd be looking at something close to a post-scarcity society. Something more like a Star Trek-esque utopia, rather than a Conan-esque age of high adventure.

I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2022, 07:32:07 PM »
Okay, but you can still have adventures in a post-scarcity society. Hell, there have been several excellent works of fiction that show that despite being a post-scarcity society, there are still problems that can't be licked.

SHARK

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2022, 09:16:02 PM »
I am not sure exactly how the Eat, Pray, Love (EPL) mentality would manifest in a roleplaying game. 

We have always had murder-hobos, players who just want to kill, loot, and burn, so I guess you could say the “Burn, Loot, Murder” (BLM) mentality has always been strong in the games.

If you want to talk about divorce, you could say that todays d&d games have divorced themselves from alignment.  The removal of alignment restrictions from certain classes (I’m looking at you Mr. Chaotic Evil Oath of Vengeance, paladin). 

You don’t even need to worship a god anymore to get divine spells.  But if you want to be a Warlock, you have to sell your soul to some demon or devil…go figure.

One thing that really gets me is the unrestricted magic.  For example: a cantrip can be cast every six seconds, all day, every day.  I was reading a reddit post where a guy was designing a steam ship for his D&D character, that would be powered by the bonfire cantrip.  Hell six guys with the bonfire cantrip could probably power a small city. 

Everybody has spells now.  All that magic flying around means sooner-or-later there are going to be consequences.  That power has to come from somewhere.  And it has a price.

Greetings!

Indeed, my friend! That deep sense of *ENTITLEMENT* which is so pervasive throughout our society, stretches its influence even into the expectations--and demands--of so many gamers nowadays.

Notice how the previous strong regard for the authority and integrity of the RULES--has largely gone out the window. Simultaneously, there has been this kind of growing disdain, smugness, and hostility against DM's, and against the DM's authority and integrity.

Strange how that all kind of flows together, heh? ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

SHARK

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2022, 09:23:10 PM »
I guess you could make the argument that the "Eat Pray Love" book is basically about a person abrogating their responsibilities in order to pursue selfish gratification, and you could connect that to a general trend in fantasy and science fiction away from heroism and towards selfish and cynical motivations. You could also argue that the philosophy of embracing shallow, trendy ideas of spirituality and fulfillment, instead of the deeper sense of purpose which someone might obtain from deeper religious or family life, bleeds out into the rejection of alignment and the concept of cosmic morality in D&D.

But like the other poster pointed out, in both cases you run up against the fact that parties of selfish mercenaries and looters are a decades-old staple of the RPG hobby.

Where you might be on firmer ground would be in connecting the navel-gazing attitude of modern "self-care" ideology with the trend towards players being more concerned with the appearance and sexual identity of their character, rather than with the adventures they get into.

Greetings!

Yeah, my friend! I agree. The connections at first glance don't seem to connect, but thinking about it more, there is definitely a distinct direction going on there. I think in many kind of fragmentary, individualized ways, we interact with these concepts that influence the gaming hobby. Shallow spirituality, abandoning responsibility, hostility towards loyalty, oaths, commitment, a higher emphasis and priority on hedonism and selfish fulfillment--even at the expense of the group around them. Yeah, I have seen many aspects of these kinds of attitudes demonstrated by *many* gamers at the Adventurer's League games at my local game store.

Very much the kinds of attitudes and philosophy that pour out of a book like "Eat, Pray, Love!'. Of course, that isn't the only book that crows and celebrates such selfishness, hedonism, and entitlement--the market is full of such books, almost entirely aimed at women--that celebrate and promote all of these ideas.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
« Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 09:26:42 PM by SHARK »
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Ghostmaker

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2022, 11:35:10 PM »
Eat the dwarven field rations (best kind), pray to your deity for the spells, and love your hot elf waifu.

Am I getting it right?

SHARK

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Re: EAT, PRAY, LOVE! Have These Ideas and Philosophy Entered Gaming?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2022, 09:22:08 PM »
Eat the dwarven field rations (best kind), pray to your deity for the spells, and love your hot elf waifu.

Am I getting it right?

Greetings!

Hot Elf Waifu! *Laughing*!!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b