...stopped shitting on each other. Leave the mud-slinging to politicians and start promoting your games on their own merits. At the end of the day, you have to put your money where your mouth is. :brood:
Well, sure, but what do you expect? Look at how gamers treat games they don't like and those who play such games. Game designers come from the ranks of gamers, after all.
I can't remember who it was -- mearls, I think -- but one of the industry people said that the infighting was so viscious because the stakes (profits in the gaming industry) are so low. The less there is to fight over, the nastier people get.
Quote from: CyberzombieI can't remember who it was -- mearls, I think -- but one of the industry people said that the infighting was so viscious because the stakes (profits in the gaming industry) are so low. The less there is to fight over, the nastier people get.
I think it's a lot of that, but I also think it has to do with the often antisocial - or at least socially awkward - nature of many gamers, who seem to be very insecure and take anything - like game systems other than the ones they like or changes in old game systems, but also stuff like not being able to understand sarcasm or irony - as somehow being an affront to them personally. We see a lot of insecurity manifested in gamerdom - "My way is the only viable way to game!" "Why are they making new game stuff! You know I
have to use it all or I won't be playing right!" As I mentioned, game designers are gamers first, so that kind of attitude has to manifest in some of them, at the least. Not all, or maybe even most, but some.
Quote from: CyberzombieI can't remember who it was -- mearls, I think -- but one of the industry people said that the infighting was so viscious because the stakes (profits in the gaming industry) are so low. The less there is to fight over, the nastier people get.
yeah, it was Mearls.
I think that CH's position is not incompatible with that of mearls, though.
Quote from: Thjalfiyeah, it was Mearls.
I think that CH's position is not incompatible with that of mearls, though.
No, definitely not incompatible. It just reveals another layer to the web of disfunction that is the gaming "industry". :D
Also I may be wrong about this, but it seems to me that because this is such a niche industry the contact between designers and gamers are pretty close/frequent. Hell with all these online forums the interation between the people that make games and those that buy said games sometimes gets pretty intense.
Fans of one product/game will viciously attack fans of another game. I can't help but think this sometimes bleeds into the way how designers feel about people who play their games and those who do not.
I think a lot of the "shitting" that goes on is because fans/gamers themselves are so vicious about things they don't like. The way how some designers behave is merely a reflection of this attitude....I think (don't know to much about the industry...but have seen a lot of "not on" behaviour online.)
Regards,
David R
Yeah, I've said that repeatedly. I can't remember the original source, but it was something about campus politics.
I've thought about this a bit, particularly when I was a freelancer. There are plenty of people in the industry who are good eggs. Matt Forbeck does a ton to help out beginners. Ken Hite is a friendly guy. The dudes at FFG are always fun to hang out with. There's definitely an element at work where you only see the obnoxious idiots. On top of that, the Internet is just a natural magnet for people with defective personalities. You don't see Ken or Matt endlessly posting anywhere. I'd be surprised if anyone reading this knows who Eric Lang is, but he's a cool game designer dude. It's the crank with an axe to grind who's posting on the message boards or whining in his blog. It's rarely the guy who actually has something interesting to say.
There are a few factors at work that poison the social pool. First of all, a lot of people get into gaming because they like the feeling of being an Important Creator. A lot of these guys are, like the Colonel points out, socially retarded. There's definitely been a huge line between the "cool kids" in the industry, the ones who go to the secret room parties and get drunk together, and the wannabes who aren't invited. That leads to some bitterness. The funny thing is, that line has nothing to do with credits or fan love. I threw an impromptu room party at Origins a few years back, and the people there ranged from famous industry vets, a guy who runs demos for Atlas Games, and a n00b freelancer. These were all guys who are just fun dudes to split a few cases of beer with and talk games.
So I think there's some bitterness there. Guys get into the business to be leet insiders, and they get the door slammed in their faces, usually because they're just weird, clingy, or annoying. To be blunt, you sort of have to try to get yourself ostracized from these gatherings, but a lot of people manage it.
The other factor is just plain jealousy. J. Random PDF guy can rant and rave about how much D&D sucks, all while knowing that an actual WotC designer can't pop into the thread and unload on him. First, that's unprofessional and a bad image for the company to put forward. Second, it's not like you're going to convince the guy otherwise. He's got a grudge. Arguing isn't going to help that. Setting WotC aside, there's still lots of resentment between some companies and designers. When I was on WZL, an industry-only email list, there was a very clear pattern where some people would take care to bully those that they saw "beneath" them while endlessly sucking up to those "above" them.
(NB: I've never seen anyone who engages in that sort of behavior get even a whiff of success in the business, nor have any of them established themselves socially except with easily duped small fry. I had this little test I run on industry people I meet: if they respect Person Z, I know that they're clueless and likely not to end up at those private room parties I mentioned above.)
Aside from the success/jealousy thing, there's the entire issue of basic, defective personalities. Some people just can't get along with others who don't agree with them. There's a strong element of "with us or against us" thinking in the industry. I think it mirrors the hideous state of politics and general human interaction we see in the world today. To some people, criticizing the wrong game, hanging out with the wrong people, or whatever is enough to get them all worked up into a froth. These gets even better when the bottom feeders rush in to support such views, in order to suck up to those they perceive as being in power.
The really interesting thing I learned in navigating the RPG biz is that, the deeper you get into it, the more you see that fan level observations have less and less to do with the truth. The guy you thought was a design superstar? His games never sell more than 1,000 copies. The publishing company you love? They don't have an office or a single full-time employee. The hot shot designer who's always mouthing off? Not a single clued in company would give him the time of day, never mind a contract.
I sometimes wonder if things could change for the better, or if it's simply natural for defective people to piss in the pool. I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if gaming (and most industries) are that way. The Internet just lets people piss each other off faster and more efficiently.
People are weird. My favourite example is Dana Jorgensen. A lot of people can't stand him. He's been booted off a lot of boards (and PDF sites). I first met Dana when I did a Blood and Guts supplement for RPG Objects and I mentioned on the WotC boards a nice review I got. Dana attacked. I maintained my cool and responded politely a few times then just ignored him. Later, we got into a discussion about something gun related in regards to another project (I think it was the H&K involvement in the L85A2 program). Very polite exchange. Later, when Dean and I started SEP, Dana offered a lot of helpful advice and support, he even helped to promote the release of a couple of our products. It was weird. I can completely understand why people have a problem with Dana, but on another level he's a pretty good guy.
There are probably a million reasons why some game designers have issues. Me, I'm just happy to know the people I've gotten to know. Other than a couple of people who have been abrasive (and one of them was Dana), everyone I've encountered on line has been friendly and supportive.
See, an excellent observation of the subjective value of people in the industry is what Mr. Mearls said about FFG. I found the president of the company pretty abrasive. He dismissed and insulted me. To Mr. Mearls they are great guys. Subjective. The specifics are less than interesting or important except as it applies to the larger topic. In general, and I can understand although not agree, mid sized companies look on small press (and yes, I am not so deluded to think HinterWelt is otherwise) as polluting the pool. I have seen it referred to as yammer and yap. It becomes easy to become dismissive then later very frustrated with getting asked, time and again, the same questions. For me, it is important to help out as much as possible. I have not been at this as long as some, about 5 years as a publisher, but I do have a different perspective than some since I owned two game stores. It lets me advise a lot of the new folks about distribution, how to contact retailers and why. From others in the industry (and many fans as well) I am always learning. Just some make it harder than others. ;)
As others point out, gamers are a very authoritative lot. Not all but many have strong personalities. Just look at this board. :) So when you get strong personality and combine it with the belief that I do not need to be polite if I am correct, you get a recipe for some serious fighting. Add in the discussions on resources and the pecking order and you get a pretty vitriolic mixture.
Just my views from the small press angle.
Bill
Quote from: mearlsI sometimes wonder if things could change for the better, or if it's simply natural for defective people to piss in the pool. I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if gaming (and most industries) are that way. The Internet just lets people piss each other off faster and more efficiently.
I think the internet just shows off exactly how bad a job most parents do of civilizing their children. :heh:
Frankly, one of the goals of this board is to try to get people who play all sorts of different games to get together and talk. The talk can involve the occasional fist fight, too, but the Nutkins would like to see a little actual communication going on.
When you actually start listening to other gamers, and why they like their system, you start learning that they aren't evil freaks who are "doing it wrong". You may even discover that the differences you've heard about are almost nonexistant. Hell, look at RPGPundit vs. the Forge -- you can hardly tell the two sides apart, despite his claims to the contrary! :deviousgrin:
I don't know how well our goal is working out for our user base, but I know it's working for me. I'm going to order a copy of HARP tomorrow, and I had never even considered playing it before. But after Rasyr posted about it, I'm interested enough to give the full book a look-see.
One thing I'll say is that the more intelligent, grown-up, non-assburger people who post, the better the conversation gets and the better chance we have of drowning out the idiots. Only you can prevent internet forest fires! :p
Quote from: GunhildaI think the internet just shows off exactly how bad a job most parents do of civilizing their children. :heh:
I think
socializing might be a better word than civilizing in this case. With as overly sensitive and as quick to take offense as many gamers online seem to be, it strikes me that a lot of people were raised to believe they were a special snowflake with no imperfections. Or they were raised like a veal and never had any contact with their peers.
Quote from: GunhildaFrankly, one of the goals of this board is to try to get people who play all sorts of different games to get together and talk. The talk can involve the occasional fist fight, too, but the Nutkins would like to see a little actual communication going on.
That's what I'd hoped to see at this site also.
Quote from: GunhildaWhen you actually start listening to other gamers, and why they like their system, you start learning that they aren't evil freaks who are "doing it wrong". You may even discover that the differences you've heard about are almost nonexistant. Hell, look at RPGPundit vs. the Forge -- you can hardly tell the two sides apart, despite his claims to the contrary! :deviousgrin:
A-fucking-men to that. After a very short time - as in nanoseconds - the whole bit about defining one's game by screaming about how it's unlike the game one hates gets old.
Quote from: GunhildaI don't know how well our goal is working out for our user base, but I know it's working for me. I'm going to order a copy of HARP tomorrow, and I had never even considered playing it before. But after Rasyr posted about it, I'm interested enough to give the full book a look-see.
Rasyr seems to have seen the light. He spent a lot of time at EN World touting HARP by bashing d20. I'd already gotten HARP, and felt it was a fine game, but felt Rasyr's almost continuous bashing of d20 could have turned away potential buyers. Here, he seems to have gotten the idea that the best thing to do is to simply have faith in HARP as a good system, and promote it as such, rather than defining it by what it isn't.
Quote from: GunhildaOne thing I'll say is that the more intelligent, grown-up, non-assburger people who post, the better the conversation gets and the better chance we have of drowning out the idiots. Only you can prevent internet forest fires! :p
Welllllll...let's keep our fingers crossed...
Quote from: GunhildaFrankly, one of the goals of this board is to try to get people who play all sorts of different games to get together and talk. The talk can involve the occasional fist fight, too, but the Nutkins would like to see a little actual communication going on.
Which is why I like posting here.This place has a good vibe. And this coming from a long time lurker.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: ColonelHardissonI think socializing might be a better word than civilizing in this case. With as overly sensitive and as quick to take offense as many gamers online seem to be, it strikes me that a lot of people were raised to believe they were a special snowflake with no imperfections. Or they were raised like a veal and never had any contact with their peers.
Probably it is a better word. :) But so many people act like extras from "Clan of the Cavebear" that civilized is the first word that comes to mind.
Quote from: ColonelHardissonThat's what I'd hoped to see at this site also.
Which immediately makes me wonder if you have seen it...
Quote from: ColonelHardissonA-fucking-men to that. After a very short time - as in nanoseconds - the whole bit about defining one's game by screaming about how it's unlike the game one hates gets old.
Yes. Especially since I've yet to see an established game system that doesn't have *something* of value in it. HARP has given me some ideas for D&D, for example -- as a way of adding in backgrounds.
Quote from: ColonelHardissonRasyr seems to have seen the light. He spent a lot of time at EN World touting HARP by bashing d20. I'd already gotten HARP, and felt it was a fine game, but felt Rasyr's almost continuous bashing of d20 could have turned away potential buyers. Here, he seems to have gotten the idea that the best thing to do is to simply have faith in HARP as a good system, and promote it as such, rather than defining it by what it isn't.
Given what the HARP light rules are like, I think bashing d20 was a really, really bad idea. :heh: But I'll only judge him by his behaviour here, and it got him a sale.
Quote from: ColonelHardissonWelllllll...let's keep our fingers crossed...
You'll have to do that for me. I might drop the banhammer if I do that. :mischief:
Quote from: GunhildaWhich immediately makes me wonder if you have seen it...
Sure.
It's comforting to believe that gamers and the game industry are special. How many times have you seen fellow gamers trot out the "gamers are smarter and more creative than mundanes" line? Similarly, when people join the game industry, they have a tendency to believe that it's different than other industries. It isn't. Now don't get me wrong, there are absolutely some great people involved and I've made many life long friends because of it. There are also, however, immature idiots, self-aggrandizing hacks, arrogant know-it-alls, self-important egotists, truth-impaired tools, rip off artists, and even your classic sleazy businessmen. And yeah, that can be a drag, but you have to treat it like any other business. Find the good people, work with them, and try to ignore the rest.
Quote from: PramasIt's comforting to believe that gamers and the game industry are special.
I got disabused of that notion once ENWorld started growing and started showing a larger cross-section of the gaming public.
Quote from: PramasHow many times have you seen fellow gamers trot out the "gamers are smarter and more creative than mundanes" line?
That experience made me realize what bullshit this line is. (Being a physics major and meeting working physicts made me realize the same thing about that group -- there are some really dumb, really unimaginative physicists out there!) Gamers are a cross-section of society: there is exactly the same ratio of dumb and of socially difficient people as anywhere else.
Quote from: PramasSimilarly, when people join the game industry, they have a tendency to believe that it's different than other industries.
Same thing, though I don't have your experience. People are people and you just have to try to find the good ones.
Despite the ease of persistant flame wars popping up, the internet does allow people the opportunity to make long-lasting friends they never would have otherwise. The bad may be magnified, but so is the good!
Quote from: GunhildaThat experience made me realize what bullshit this line is. (Being a physics major and meeting working physicts made me realize the same thing about that group -- there are some really dumb, really unimaginative physicists out there!) Gamers are a cross-section of society: there is exactly the same ratio of dumb and of socially difficient people as anywhere else.
To really sharpen the point, it's scifi and fantasy fandom in general that likes to imagine it is better than the "mundanes." More imaginative, more intelligent, :blahblah: Such pretentious bullshit. So gamers aren't even really unique in thinking they're unique.
A further irony is that for all the imagination a lot of gamers like to point to as making them superior, there sure seem to be a lot of closed-minded, unimaginative gamers. "I can't play this game without support!" "Setting Y cannot be properly done using Game System X!" Plus all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about how a given adventure or sourcebook can't be used because it's set in a given campaign world - I mean, how fucking hard is it to file off the serial numbers?
Quote from: ColonelHardissonA further irony is that for all the imagination a lot of gamers like to point to as making them superior, there sure seem to be a lot of closed-minded, unimaginative gamers. "I can't play this game without support!" "Setting Y cannot be properly done using Game System X!" Plus all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about how a given adventure or sourcebook can't be used because it's set in a given campaign world - I mean, how fucking hard is it to file off the serial numbers?
To this I would like to add - the whole "the world is ending" bitching and moaning whenever a company releases a new edition of a game. Words like betrayed and outraged and phrases like "
how the fuck could they spoil a perfectly good game" litter
any discussion about the new edition.
I mean if you don't like it fine...don't buy it. I mean there are a few games which I like which has been revised and the revision was not to my taste but, hell, good for them (the company) if they can get new players out of it great.And half the time with these new editions I find something I can use. And for some games the new edition rules really is an improvement on the previous rules.
Sorry for the rant.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: ColonelHardissonTo really sharpen the point, it's scifi and fantasy fandom in general that likes to imagine it is better than the "mundanes." More imaginative, more intelligent, :blahblah: Such pretentious bullshit. So gamers aren't even really unique in thinking they're unique.
Absolutely; and in many cases this mistake comes from confusing "quantity with quality" and "appearance with substance".
"Quantity with Quality" in the sense that I've run into SOOO many sci-fi/Fantasy/Gaming Novels geeks who claim that they are either more intelligent or better educated by virtue of the fact that they've read the entire series of Forgotten Realms novels, or all of the Star Trek novels... interesting how not one of these people would claim that a housewife who's read every single harlequin romance in existence is a particularly educated human being. But they tend to believe that your run of the mill sci-fi (or worse, your b-grade series sci-fi) is pretty sophisticated literature; a claim which only proves that you've never read any really sophisticated literature.
"Appearance with substance", well, that's what I bitch about all the time. Geeks who think that by virtue of being geeks and either "Looking" or "acting" elite they really are elite. These people are born with a sense of entitlement and superiority, and generally think that they really shouldn't be expected to do anything to actually earn that sense of superiority, other than at most putting on the trappings of the intellectual. Showing off one's knowledge of trivia or the complexity of one's vocabulary as a substitute to actual education and understanding. The part that consistently amazes me is just how many dumb fucks actually fall for these shitheads' acts.
RPGPundit
Quote from: David RSorry for the rant.
Dude, that's not a rant. It's just a post with an opinion. You ain't seen a
real Nutkinland rant yet... :heh:
Anyway, yeah, the ones who bitch about the release of new editions baffle me. A new edition doesn't strike their books blank. More often than not the bitchers assert that they haven't bought anything in a long time anyway (they play the perfect game, after all), so, in the end, what the fuck are they bitching about? It's just massive insecurity - anything that knocks their blinkered world-view off-kilter even a little is cause for bitter complaint.
Quote from: ColonelHardissonAnyway, yeah, the ones who bitch about the release of new editions baffle me.
Being a former GW WHFB/WH40K wallet victim, I understand it deeply...
QuoteA new edition doesn't strike their books blank.
True enough. I have so much source material, I could keep going for quite some time without a refresh.
But you have to factor in very real social factors. Some players must get on board with the new-and-shiny. Which makes it harder to gather players to game with. I am very comfortable with my current set-up and am rather impressed with the level of support D&D/d20 currently enjoys. I am not in the mood to transition to a new, incompatible system any time soon.
Quote from: PramasIt's comforting to believe that gamers and the game industry are special. How many times have you seen fellow gamers trot out the "gamers are smarter and more creative than mundanes" line? Similarly, when people join the game industry, they have a tendency to believe that it's different than other industries. It isn't. Now don't get me wrong, there are absolutely some great people involved and I've made many life long friends because of it. There are also, however, immature idiots, self-aggrandizing hacks, arrogant know-it-alls, self-important egotists, truth-impaired tools, rip off artists, and even your classic sleazy businessmen. And yeah, that can be a drag, but you have to treat it like any other business. Find the good people, work with them, and try to ignore the rest.
First Nikchik, now Chris!! Hello and salutations :bow:
Quote from: Caesar SlaadBut you have to factor in very real social factors. Some players must get on board with the new-and-shiny. Which makes it harder to gather players to game with. I am very comfortable with my current set-up and am rather impressed with the level of support D&D/d20 currently enjoys. I am not in the mood to transition to a new, incompatible system any time soon.
Yeah, but some of the loudest, most irritating twats that complain about new editions and the like are the ones who claim they've been playing the same game with the same guys (in most cases) since the 70s.
Quote from: ColonelHardissonYeah, but some of the loudest, most irritating twats that complain about new editions and the like are the ones who claim they've been playing the same game with the same guys (in most cases) since the 70s.
But if they didn't complain, no one would know of their existence. Where's their special award?
The Colonel is spot on as usual. To clarify, not only are the "bitchers" a problem, but also those who defend the new edition as though it was some precious infant that continuesly needs to suckle on the teat of fan adoration.
For example. I like the old edition of Mage. I don't really dig the new edition, but that's cool. (Truth be told there is some stuff in the new edition that I like...not enough to justify buying the new line but hey, that's just me) When you read some of the threads discussing the new game, some posters make some very good observations about the difference between the old and new game. This is generally accepted by most, but then you get the twits who are deliberately playing the obtuse card, dragging the whole flow of the converstaion to bile city, with a back and forth that reeks of pettiness.
Nevermind that the whole point of new editions are about changes...no...these dickwards have no place in their world/game view that, yes perhaps there are some factors that appealed to a specific set of people which has changed in the new edition...and these people are really not pissing (although like mentioned there are many who do) on the new game but just making some valid observations.
But to get back to the premise of the original post, I think there are two issues here. Firstly how the industry behaves amongst itself. I will leave this question to be answered by some insiders who have already posted here.
The second is how fans/gamers behave towards the industry. Sometimes the bile that some game designers receive is unbelievable.Really personal attacks. I mean the shit that gets thrown at them is like they had just walked into your bedroom and fucked your spouse to ecstatic oblivion. Which is not to say that it is all the fans/gamers fault. Industry players posting on forums sometimes go out of their way to make themselves reviled.But in some cases their attitudes are merely a reflection of the kind of shit they have to put up with. Not all the time...but sometimes.
Some fans really do make honest points about what they like/dislike in a game, and this should be applauded, after all this just makes the game better and generates a whole lot of interest, in my opinion of course.
It's a two way street. Whenever an industry person says something good or bad about his/her product and another competing product...you can bet he/she will always find an audience.
Sometimes it's a toxic stew man, people should just not partake or add to it :)
Regards,
David R
Quote from: mearlsThe other factor is just plain jealousy. J. Random PDF guy can rant and rave about how much D&D sucks...
I am J. Random PDF Guy, and I think D&D is fine. Not to my taste, but earlier versions gave me a lot of pleasure years ago. That's not saying that current versions are no good, just that I only ever played with the earlier versions. Anyway, any of the versions aren't my gaming tastes these days. My solution to that was to make my own game, which I thought good enough to be worth paying some token amount of money for.
I think we have to remember, as others have said, that most game designers, from the big to the small, just quietly make games. We only notice the noisy and/or obnoxious ones.
The original poster, Jong, likes to hang around with people who spend a lot of time abusing the vocal game designers. He also likes engaging in discussions of moderation of rpg discussion boards. So he naturally has the perspective that game designers spend a good chunk of their time bitching at each-other online. It simply ain't so, though. I mean, old Kev Siembieda never even had an email account until about a month ago :D
Jong hangs with RPGPundit.
Currently Smoking: Crack. So naturally he gets the impression that the internet is full of self-important gamer types abusing the fuck out of each-other.
Well, Jim Bob, given the amount of time YOU spend bitching, Jong can't be that far off...
RPGPundit
Interesting answers so far. :)
I'd like to clarify something, though: I was just talking about people who promote their products in opposition to another one. Negative ads already poison real politics, and I think the RPG industry can live without them. Really, is it that hard to promote your games on their own merits?
Quote from: JimBobHe also likes engaging in discussions of moderation of rpg discussion boards.
Uh? I despise having to engage in such discussions. It means something is fucked up and it needs to be fixed, which means less time having fun.
Quote from: JongWKReally, is it that hard to promote your games on their own merits?
Usually, negative attacks come from someone having the feeling that they DON'T have merits. Just like in politics. They're based on insecurity.
Now, I like a discussion where systems are compared and contrasted, and the faults *and* merits of *all* games under discussion are talked about. Most systems have their good points and all of them have their bad points. Game designers are human, and are often under tight deadlines. If they produced something perfect, you'd have to wonder about divine (or infernal) intervention. :D
I have a saying: "Don't talk shit about your peers, and keep your fucking yap shut about other people's shit."
Seriously.
Yeah, there's authors out there that if I see thier name on a book, I'll drop the book and light my hand on fire to keep thier stupidity from getting on me.
And there's people I really like, and I'd probably buy a book full of scribbling done if they jammed a pencil up thier ass.
Now, having said both points, I'd like to mention something...
I'm not a "professional" game designer. If my wife quit her job we'd be fucking homeless. I don't think I'm writing the second coming of Christ when I design a product, and I sure as shit don't think I'm better than anyone else.
I'll be a "professional" game designer the day I make enough money I can lay on a big pile of $100 bills and play RPG's while naked strippers dance in the background.
Till then, I'm just a guy, usually drunk, sometimes going to class, who hopes to write something people like.
Now, onto my observatios of others...
Many other writers are nice guys. Some of the company's out there are very easy to work with. This includes WotC in the list. Despite all the snarking I've seen from people, I haven't had any trouble with them.
What have I done that involved them? None of your fucking business.
Ahem. Anyway, I cruise a lot of boards. For the most part I've stopped posting at most boards due to the poor conduct, the bitchiness, the immaturity, and the other HS bullshit going on.
Many boards can be cut down to this:
- "OH NOES! XE of [INSERT GAME NAME] IS COMING OUT!!! WE'RE ALL DOOMBED!!!111!!"
- "{Insert Book Name} Completely sucked, and here's why!
- {Insert Company} Completly messed up with this book, because if you combine this and this and this and this, it's broken in MY game!!!!
- Why {Company X} sucks
- My butt itches, does anyone know why?
There, I just saved you a couple of hours.
Yes, there are forums out there that are worth a damn. No, not all threads are like that, but usually, in order to find the one diamond in the rough, you gotta wade through miles of shit.
And I've seen the way some of the big names are treated. Fuck that. I'll stay a small timer, that way I can be nasty right back to those giggling asexual juvenile fucktards with delusions of granduer.
Mainly because any dipshit who can turn on a computer can now post his opinoin on anything. Just like I'm doing now. And some people are very vocal, and argue over what the definition of the word "is" really is, when it' s applied to the rules of thier favorite game.
Seeing some of these people, however, rant and rave about authors, and products, and then wonder why there is so little respect in the small PDF publisher industry. These are the people who make me wonder just how the hobby got a reputation for intellect.
And some authors, I'm not naming names, need to just shut the fuck up. Yes, we're proud of you that you reached Nirvana, that you've managed to hammer a 12 penny nail through your penis, but just because you wrote several fucking gaming books does not make you the next messiah.
That's Tom Cruise, not you.
Maybe that's part of it.
Both sides need to STFU a little bit some times.
Sure, I blather on in my blog about what I'm doing, and who I'm banging, and how much whiskey I've drank, but so fucking what? I'm not preaching like I'm morally superior. I know I'm an alcoholic letch. I'm not coming across like I'm the fucking pinball wizard.
Oh, and another fucking thing...
If you don't like a game system... SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT! Stop coming into every goddamn thread and shitting all over the place like the thread is the starlet and you're the leading male in a German schiesse flick. You get it. You hate it. Find a new hobby to replace crapping in everyone's threads. I'd recommend gun barrel tasting. It might make the world a better place.
These motherfuckers piss me off. The thread is going great. All kinds of good ideas. And in they drop to state why the game sucks, reciting it from where they tattooed it on thier dogs back so they can C&P it while they ass fuck the dog, placing thier 2,351 point list on why that game/setting/character/accessory/air freshener is oh-so-inferior to whatever they are pushing.
Oh, and speaking of pushing...
When someone posts a question regarding another game system...
STOP COMING IN AND POSTING ABOUT YOUR PRODUCT IN EVERY FUCKING THREAD!
"Hey, guys, last weekend my gnome caught the clad after he got turked by a bear, and ideas if cure disease will work?"
"Well, in my personally designed system, which I had inked on Popeskin, I handle it by blah blah fucking blah, and of course, I won't tell you HOW I did it, just I did it, and then put down the game system you are using, and call you a foolish tool."
SHUT THE FUCK UP! We don't want to hear it! Yes, you've designed a game. We're all dance around the dead hooker happy for you. If I could figure out a way to do it, I'd leave you at the vetranarian.
That means, stop badmouthing other people's work.
If you think you could write it better, then fucking do it. If you want to officially badmouth it, write a review, so we can decide if you are write, or just some loudmouthed tool with an axe to grind until it's pointier then your fucking head.
And that means stop badmouthing the little guys.
No more of this: "Vanity press" or "Stealing our customers" or "Diluting the customer base."
Did God come down and blow WoTC off the map with a Taco Bell fart?
I'm sick of hearing a lot of people bitch about the small PDF publishers in one breath, then talk about how thier sales are up, and they might even break XXXX amount this month, in the same goddamn breath.
We all start somewhere, even if it's just a 2 page PDF.
Here's a hint, Mr. Publishing Superstar...
If your PDF didn't sell well, it's not because the "Piddling Press bunch" stole your sales, it's because it sucked and your name didn't do the job you thought it would.
To sum up.
I'm Tim Willard, and I'm an alcoh...
Or, wrong thread.
Anyway: I'm a dick, I know it, everyone else knows it.
I don't badmouth people, so stop talking shit about everyone.
Quote from: T-WillardI'll be a "professional" game designer the day I make enough money I can lay on a big pile of $100 bills and play RPG's while naked strippers dance in the background.
In my world, there's a name for this: Thursday evenings. :emot-clint:
RPGPundit
Quote from: T-WillardI have a saying: "Don't talk shit about your peers, and keep your fucking yap shut about other people's shit."
Scrappy, you are the mench.
I know many game designers/developers/assorted other "professionals" who need this lasered into their corneas so they never forget it.
There was one developer who bitched and moaned about how his product line was superior to his competitors and people were rating his competitors product as highly as his.
This despite that they were using the same principal author in their products.
Few are the designers who don't see their products through mother's eyes.
Quote from: RPGPunditWell, Jim Bob, given the amount of time YOU spend bitching, Jong can't be that far off...
Don't be snarky, mate, or Darren MacLennan might fall in love with you.
Quote from: T-WillardI'll be a "professional" game designer the day I make enough money I can lay on a big pile of $100 bills and play RPG's while naked strippers dance in the background.
Hey Willard, when that day comes I wanna be working for you...
...and the naked strippers? If I'm there, they'll be
dancing, ifyuhknowwhutImean... :naughty:
-SJ
Quote from: T-Willard*snip*
Dude. Now
this is a rant. A touch awkward here and there in terms of flow and dramatic pause, but very nice.
Quote from: Lady LakiraDude. Now this is a rant. A touch awkward here and there in terms of flow and dramatic pause, but very nice.
This is one of his lesser creations. it's much more civil than he normaly is.
At some point, You'll see a
real rant out of him... and then you will be shocked and astounded by the savage beauty....
Quote from: ThjalfiThis is one of his lesser creations. it's much more civil than he normaly is.
At some point, You'll see a real rant out of him... and then you will be shocked and astounded by the savage beauty....
I don't want to say that the squirrel is right, but....
The squirrel is right.
Peterson