Rant: Dungeon "Turd" & Indie games

Natty Bodak · January 18, 2015, 08:07:56 PM

Quote from: Justin Alexander;810509There's nothing which fits the description of "predefined aspects" in the game rules. The second half of your complaint is unclear, but also appears to have no relationship to the actual game (which features strong prep that's focused on responding dynamically to the actions of the PCs; it's neither all-improvisation nor is it focused on "story creation").

Given your continued inability to explain what, exactly, you didn't like about the game, I'm fairly skeptical that your trolling here is based on anything at all.

I suppose we were fairly warned with "rant" in the thread title, but maybe "trolling" is too harsh. Maybe there's just an honest lack of self-awareness there to reflect on it.

Either way, I predict a lack of productive conversation. Also, there's a 50/50 shot the sun will rise again tomorrow.

Bren · January 18, 2015, 10:04:49 PM

Quote from: Natty Bodak;810560Either way, I predict a lack of productive conversation. Also, there's a 50/50 shot the sun will rise again tomorrow.

You can make that 100%. The sun's already up in India.

Natty Bodak · January 18, 2015, 10:24:36 PM

Quote from: Bren;810574You can make that 100%. The sun's already up in India.

What sorcery is this?!

Bren · January 18, 2015, 10:41:14 PM

Quote from: Natty Bodak;810575What sorcery is this?!

The sorcery of Networked Webcams.

Certified · January 18, 2015, 11:27:48 PM

For those that are interested but have not had a chance to play Dungeon World, or have had a negative experience with it here is a link to a series of actual plays, reviews and interviews with the creators.

http://www.thewalkingeye.com/?cat=945&paged=2

and

http://www.thewalkingeye.com/?cat=945

For the skeptics that listen to podcasts I hope you give them a listen. The first play is a beta, the revisit the published rules.

Personally, I've only had the opportunity to play Dungeon World once. However, I can say it was an enjoyable game and I like the concepts laid out by the Apocalypse World engine.

Vargold · January 18, 2015, 11:31:19 PM

Played it twice. Got TPKed in the third room the first time, second time played "In Search of the Unknown" all the way through. Greatly enjoyed myself.

Natty Bodak · January 18, 2015, 11:33:58 PM

Quote from: Certified;810584For those that are interested but have not had a chance to play Dungeon World, or have had a negative experience with it here is a link to a series of actual plays, reviews and interviews with the creators.

http://www.thewalkingeye.com/?cat=945&paged=2

and

http://www.thewalkingeye.com/?cat=945

For the skeptics that listen to podcasts I hope you give them a listen. The first play is a beta, the revisit the published rules.

Personally, I've only had the opportunity to play Dungeon World once. However, I can say it was an enjoyable game and I like the concepts laid out by the Apocalypse World engine.

While I have enjoyed Walking Eye, I can't recommend their AP DW podcasts as far as being an example of how the game goes.

There are a couple DW games on twitch or the like where koebel runs a game. MIght be a better gauge.

But to reinforce the general idea, finding a good AP helps.

Certified · January 18, 2015, 11:35:12 PM

Quote from: Natty Bodak;810586While I have enjoyed Walking Eye, I can't recommend their AP DW podcasts as far as being an example of how the game goes.

There are a couple DW games on twitch or the like where koebel runs a game. MIght be a better gauge.

But to reinforce the general idea, finding a good AP helps.

Can you provide links to the other APs? (I listen to these whilst at the office.)

rawma · January 18, 2015, 11:47:42 PM

Quote from: Justin Alexander;810509There's nothing which fits the description of "predefined aspects" in the game rules. The second half of your complaint is unclear, but also appears to have no relationship to the actual game (which features strong prep that's focused on responding dynamically to the actions of the PCs; it's neither all-improvisation nor is it focused on "story creation").

Given your continued inability to explain what, exactly, you didn't like about the game, I'm fairly skeptical that your trolling here is based on anything at all.

I'm not sure what the "predefined aspects" part is about, but the rest of it is pretty straightforward and doesn't strike me as trolling:

an initial rant out of frustration at the time wasted on a game that doesn't suit his group's preferences;
"not suited to his group" probably means you're not going to get an insightful review of subtle points of the game;
finding it "boring" might mean it was badly run (whether because of the GM or because the group was adrift in a game that didn't suit them);
complaints about "story" are superficially supported by some of the GM advice ("Think of the players' characters as protagonists in a story you might see on TV.", "When you make a move it always comes from the fiction.")

Natty Bodak · January 18, 2015, 11:49:38 PM

Quote from: Certified;810587Can you provide links to the other APs? (I listen to these whilst at the office.)

Here's a link to the first in the series (the one I could find quickly).

robiswrong · January 19, 2015, 12:34:58 AM

Well, I won't disagree with you about most of what you write, but a minor point on one thing...

Quote from: rawma;810588
complaints about "story" are superficially supported by some of the GM advice ("Think of the players' characters as protagonists in a story you might see on TV.", "When you make a move it always comes from the fiction.")

"Fiction" in DW (or most AW games, really) doesn't generally mean "the story," and especially not "the predetermined story". It means "the shit we're imagining". The point is that you engage in the rules by describing what you're doing, not by directly referencing the rules. So you don't say "I hack 'n' slash". You say something like "I advance on the orc, swinging my blade in a rapid flurry," which the GM then interprets as the move Hack 'n' Slash.

Gronan of Simmerya · January 19, 2015, 12:40:12 AM

Or you say "I take my sword and kill the fucker" which is also Hack & Slash.

jeff37923 · January 19, 2015, 12:43:56 AM

"A rose by any other name....."

rawma · January 19, 2015, 12:47:41 AM

Quote from: robiswrong;810594Well, I won't disagree with you about most of what you write, but a minor point on one thing...

"Fiction" in DW (or most AW games, really) doesn't generally mean "the story," and especially not "the predetermined story". It means "the shit we're imagining". The point is that you engage in the rules by describing what you're doing, not by directly referencing the rules. So you don't say "I hack 'n' slash". You say something like "I advance on the orc, swinging my blade in a rapid flurry," which the GM then interprets as the move Hack 'n' Slash.

I did say superficially; but I should have left in the part I originally typed where I said the quotes are somewhat out of context. But also it depends on the quality of GMing; that might have been the GM's fault, or it may have been the players:

GM: "OK, just tell me what you would be doing in a D&D situation like this!"
Players: "Um, we would roll for initiative."

Pressing the OP for more answers probably won't help because I doubt he could shed any more light on these questions, and it still comes down to mismatch of preferences.

Enlightened · January 19, 2015, 01:09:35 AM

Quote from: rawma;810598it still comes down to mismatch of preferences.

BUTT... I think the OP is a case of a newbie GM running the game horribly incorrectly and thus giving a mistaken impression of how the game is played.

Perhaps the OP's group would still not like Dungeon World even if they played it with someone who knows what they are doing. Who knows.

But as of now, the OP is complaining about stuff that was true about the fucked up way some guy ran a game for them, but that isn't true of correctly run Dungeon World.

A Dude: I don't like steaks!

Other Dude: Why?

A Dude: Because they're made out of old condoms slathered in dog shit and vomit.

Other Dude: No, that wasn't a proper steak that you ate. You should make your decision after you have actually eaten a real steak.