No gaming is better than bad gaming.


If you don't like the game, don't play. It's not the game's fault.

Quote from: elfandghost;810469My main gripe with DW, FATE et al. is there attempt to fix something that isn't broken and making it far worse.

I am mostly of the same opinion. And in the case of Dungeon [strike]Turd[/strike] World, it ironically almost seems to assume a certain "brain damage" among people unfamiliar with "old school" RPG, people brought up with "Indie" and Forge style games among them - I'm guessing that's why some have experienced it as insulting or boring.

Quote from: rawma;810464Dungeon World does sound like a very bad match for your group. I've only played Monster World (and ran it once because the GM wanted to play), and it was OK; but I can see why other people would hate it.

So, does the new guy fit in otherwise? How long was he in the group before asking to run Dungeon World? Did he quit when the rest of you decided not to play it ever again?

He actually suggested other Indie games, and we weren't impressed. We think he'd be better with another group who like indie games. The fellow himself is fine, although younger than us (we are mid to late 30s). We'II see how it pans out.

We are looking at starting a RQ6 Mythic Britain game now it has shipped; DW was supposed to cover until I worked on that. Instead we will run a Supers Heroes game until that starts (our usual in between game's RPG).

Quote from: TristramEvans;810472No gaming is better than bad gaming.


If you don't like the game, don't play. It's not the game's fault.

BUT WHY!?! WHY!?!

Why is it possible for a game that I don't like to even exist. How can people like things I do not! Oh, cruel cruel world that has such games in it. Oh woe is me! Woe is me!!

Quote from: elfandghost;810446Perhaps it is aimed at people have never played before.

If you're talking about the "choose how your eyes look from this list" thingy, then yes, it is trying to help new people overcome decision paralysis by narrowing their options. It helps some new people get started easier.

Veteran players can just skip it. Did the newbie DM force you to use it or something? Because that would be dumb.

Quote from: elfandghost;810446Mostly it is every action having to belong to predefined aspects,

I assume you are talking about Moves.

Actions don't have to belong to Moves. You just say what you do without any though what so ever about Moves.

The DM then determines silently, in his own head, whether your action fits into a Move. If he thinks it does, he will say "Roll [Stat]" and then tell you what happens (sometimes he will give you a choice of one of three things to have happen).

Players never ever need to think about Moves unless the DM asks you to make a choice. And players certainly never ever choose Moves.

Was the DM trying to have you choose your own Moves? Because that would be dumb.

 

Quote from: elfandghost;810446'story' created as you go along.

It's no different than normal D&D there.

When playing normal D&D, how could you not create a story? What you do is the story, and you have to do things, so you cannot help but to create a story.

And how would you be able to create a story in any other way that "as you go along"?


We need more information about what sucked for you. Because right now it's looking like "Newbie DM Tries to Run Game He Doesn't Know How to Run Right, and It Sucked! News at Eleven!"

Quote from: Enlightened;810479We need more information about what sucked for you.

Dungeonworld

Quote from: elfandghost;810480Dungeonworld

You're an articulate one, you are.

Quote from: elfandghost;810475He actually suggested other Indie games, and we weren't impressed. We think he'd be better with another group who like indie games. The fellow himself is fine, although younger than us (we are mid to late 30s). We'II see how it pans out.

We are looking at starting a RQ6 Mythic Britain game now it has shipped; DW was supposed to cover until I worked on that. Instead we will run a Supers Heroes game until that starts (our usual in between game's RPG).

Had he played in any of your previous games? He might be an OK player once he sees what it is you usually do. But obviously if he continues to insist on games that the rest of you don't like, or just spoils the games you are playing, then he's not going to work out no matter how nice he is.

Quote from: elfandghost;810475He actually suggested other Indie games, and we weren't impressed. We think he'd be better with another group who like indie games. The fellow himself is fine, although younger than us (we are mid to late 30s). We'II see how it pans out.

We are looking at starting a RQ6 Mythic Britain game now it has shipped; DW was supposed to cover until I worked on that. Instead we will run a Supers Heroes game until that starts (our usual in between game's RPG).

Maybe suggest some indie games to him: suggest trad (even "old school") games from indie publishers like Sine Nomine Publishing, Precis Intermedia or D101 Games, to name a few. In fact, be sure to tell him RQ6 is an indie game as well.

Quote from: elfandghost;810446Mostly it is every action having to belong to predefined aspects, 'story' created as you go along.

There's nothing which fits the description of "predefined aspects" in the game rules. The second half of your complaint is unclear, but also appears to have no relationship to the actual game (which features strong prep that's focused on responding dynamically to the actions of the PCs; it's neither all-improvisation nor is it focused on "story creation").

Given your continued inability to explain what, exactly, you didn't like about the game, I'm fairly skeptical that your trolling here is based on anything at all.

We live in an Golden Age of RPG Product and you have been blessed with a group of gamers willing to try different games. Be grateful for this.

Dungeonworld doesn't work for you and your crew. That's cool. 3e and 5e doesn't work for me. Fortunately, there are a bazillion other RPGs and surely some of them will make your crew and GM happy.

Here are two free and original RPGs from independent publishers that I have found to be excellent in play:

MAZES & MINOTAURS
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

WARRIOR, ROGUE and MAGE
http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/

Quote from: elfandghost;810446Mostly it is every action having to belong to predefined aspects, 'story' created as you go along.

You prefer 'story' to be predetermined beforehand?

Quote from: elfandghost;810446Perhaps it is aimed at people have never played before. I found it insulting. I found it boring, against roleplaying, gamey. Mostly it is every action having to belong to predefined aspects, 'story' created as you go along.

I've played D&D since Gygax started running it in 1972.  I've also played Dungeon World.

It's your group.

"Every action having to belong to predefined aspects?"  I don't even know what that means.  If you're referring to 'moves' then your group has a major misunderstanding of how they work, because in over six months of playing none of us had any trouble doing what we wanted.

And "story created as you go along" is just another name for sandbox, which is what D&D has been for decades.

We've been over this to death, the game does read like an indie game written with new school narrative lingo to describe something that is new to new school gamers - old school gameplay.  So if you already know old school play, not only can it sound simplistic but possibly even insulting.

About the story, I think what he means, possibly, is "story created as you go along...with an eye to creating story".  You don't HAVE to play DungeonWorld that way, but the flexible nature of the "choose the complication for partial success" does allow for more open results than simple traditional task resolution.

Basically, the game's mechanics could be used in a more narrative fashion, I think that's what he and his group are allergic too.  One of my players (this might make sense if you're in IT) said the moves are like the OSI model, a theoretical framework for description, but no point in actually using them.

In any case, just move on.  RQ6 Mythic Britain sounds like a much better use of your time.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;810443What exactly turns you off about it? Tone or rules? What rules?

Not trying to troll, nobody around here plays it, so I'm only aware of it from it's vague reputation as a sort of D&D for people who hate D&D.

I'm a nobody who plays it, and who also loves D&D, for the little-to-nothing that's worth.