Like the tin says, when trying to model science, more specifically scientific gizmos/gadgets the vancian magic system doesn't really fit.

So, what system's have you used to limit gadgets/gizmos outside of the typical lets turn the wizard into a scientist and voila!

As far as gadgets/gizmos, I think the main limits are: (1) ammunition and/or power; (2) require maintenance or repair.

As far as having a balanced scientist as a PC options, there's a basic question of how you want to approach technology. In many scifi games, a scientist or technician is a useful specialty because a bunch of game challenges are tests of science/technology skills. i.e. The PCs have to repair a spaceship or investigate a mysterious problem, and thus those skills are needed.

In most superhero games, there are less direct science challenges, and instead the scientist character has unique gadgets/gizmos like powered armor. Logically, the if gizmos and gadgets are science, they will work for anyone. But there are usually instead some overt genre rules that only Iron Man can use Iron Man's gadgets except in limited cases. Like if the other character pays to have gadgets too, and says they're made by Iron Man.

In modern-day action games, being a scientist or technician isn't usually a specialty in itself, but more of a side skill for certain characters. A character might be a sniper and scientist, or thief and scientist, or similar.

If it's integrating a scientist character into a fantasy game, it's a question of what approach to use.

Superhero games can use some variation of a power pool and a rank cap to limit the total value of the gadgets as well as the top power level of any given gadget. In addition to being tied to a device/focus, descriptors can limit the range of effects. This applies to Hero and M&M, but most Superhero goes I've seen have some variation on this to cover anything from Batman's belt to Iron Man's arsenal selection of the week to what Captain Caveman has stuffed into his body hair today.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 05, 2021, 08:02:00 PM
Superhero games can use some variation of a power pool and a rank cap to limit the total value of the gadgets as well as the top power level of any given gadget. In addition to being tied to a device/focus, descriptors can limit the range of effects. This applies to Hero and M&M, but most Superhero goes I've seen have some variation on this to cover anything from Batman's belt to Iron Man's arsenal selection of the week to what Captain Caveman has stuffed into his body hair today.

Yeah, I have seen the same but it's not Hero  nor M&M based, also it's not only about the number of gizmos but how many uses a gizmo has.

In my game this will mean batteries of some sort (probably) as a number of uses cap, but what about the leveling up of the gizmos?

I can do a straight translation from D&D Wizard to a D&D "Scientist", and thats how I've seen it done, but I don't like it.

I think there should be a different approach, for flavor and to distinguish the two classes if there happens to be Wizards in the game.

Quote from: jhkim on August 05, 2021, 07:54:36 PM
As far as gadgets/gizmos, I think the main limits are: (1) ammunition and/or power; (2) require maintenance or repair.

As far as having a balanced scientist as a PC options, there's a basic question of how you want to approach technology. In many scifi games, a scientist or technician is a useful specialty because a bunch of game challenges are tests of science/technology skills. i.e. The PCs have to repair a spaceship or investigate a mysterious problem, and thus those skills are needed.

In most superhero games, there are less direct science challenges, and instead the scientist character has unique gadgets/gizmos like powered armor. Logically, the if gizmos and gadgets are science, they will work for anyone. But there are usually instead some overt genre rules that only Iron Man can use Iron Man's gadgets except in limited cases. Like if the other character pays to have gadgets too, and says they're made by Iron Man.

In modern-day action games, being a scientist or technician isn't usually a specialty in itself, but more of a side skill for certain characters. A character might be a sniper and scientist, or thief and scientist, or similar.

If it's integrating a scientist character into a fantasy game, it's a question of what approach to use.

My bad, not superhero, not fantasy more akin to Pulp if anything.

Thing is gadgets/gizmos are not limited to PCs, NPCs may have them too, so there needs to be a reasonable and believable In-World limitation impossed on them. IMHO this means probably batteries of some sort.

My problem comes in how to model them, take away the Wizard spell progression table, now model the spells to a reasonable cap/level up system.

Well that but first you turned the Wizard into a scientist.

To both of you:

It's almost a certainty I'll have Psions, Wizards and maybe some sort of Cleric in the game. So the Scientist (and that class is a MUST in this type of game) needs to be different mechanically and in flavor.

I think I can disclose this much:

It's a Pulpish Sci-Fi game, Humans, Mercurians, Lunatics, etc. Think something that can emulate Flash Gordon, John Carter, Pellucidar and Atlantis (the animated movie?) plus maybe other genres of Pulp.

So, the Scientist as a PC Class I'm going for is Professor Zarkov.