Greetings!

*Sigh* I hope that I do not regret my generosity. In a recent campaign I have started--the group are women, who are gaming newbies. Their knowledge of D&D has been limited to watching a boyfriend play, watching their son or daughter play D&D, popular culture, and the Big Bang Theory and such. I am normally ruthless and harsh. Especially when playing with experienced veteran gamers, I can be strict.

However, I admit, when it comes to gaming newbies, I feel an extra sense of obligation or duty to make the game fun for them, to indulge their fantasy, their exuberance and enthusiasm. I sometimes think that new players especially should not be confronted with a barrage or a "Wall of NO!" but that "Yes's" are more conducive to fostering creativity and enjoyment of the game. I'm also keenly aware that such can be potentially disastrous, both for a campaign, but also corrosive in creating a player that has expectations of being catered to. That definitely is a set of dynamics I always want to avoid.

I efficiently explained the starting area of the campaign world to them, the primary peoples, races, and cultures. Main points of focus are like a Eastern European environment, with Russian, Hungarian, Slavic-styled cultures and tribes, Steppe Barbarian influences, Germanic-styled barbarian influences, as well as some Persian and Indian-like elements. Then there are various humanoid races and assorted freaks mostly on the margins and perimeters of the campaign environment.

What characters were created?

"Oh! *Giggle*! So Random!"

(1) Barbarian: Germanic-like Barbarian Human Female
(2) Sorcerer: Indian-like Human Female
(3) Rogue: Lime-Green coloured Half Orc Female
(4) Druid: Wood Elf Female
(5) Witch: Deer Girl Humanoid Female
(6) Ranger: Lilac-coloured Hermaphrodite Humanoid (Bizarre, functional blend of Male and Female)
(7) Monk: Lemon-Yellow coloured Humanoid Female with weird, three-toed prehensile feet
( Fighter: Rainbow-Coloured Hippo Girl Humanoid Female

So, yeah. The "Oh *Giggle*! So Random!" influence in gaming culture--even beyond it to the peripheries--seems to be pretty profound.

I am of course carefully considering how all of these very unusual characters are somehow to be integrated into the campaign without being strung up or burned at the stake in their first day visiting a village, town or city away from their home areas.

Why do women seem so especially drawn to the weird kind of characters and races? Thankfully, to the best of my knowledge, the players are not SJW's. Our earlier relationships have always been good, and BS and SJW-nonsense-free.

Your thoughts, suggestions, and commentary are welcomed for certain. It has been awhile since I played with total newbies. Most of the players in my other groups are experienced veteran gamers.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

1. AD&D1e
2. roll 3d6 in order
3. you are human
4. random gender, height, weight, etc. And yes, random name - you didn't get to choose what your parents called you at birth, did you? Neither does the character. Yeah, they can try to name themselves something else - will it stick?
5. choose one of fighter, magic-user, cleric or thief - you're unlikely to qualify for any other class anyway
6. choose weapons proficiencies, MU get random starting spells, thieves write down skills, roll for hit points
7. throw for starting coinage and choose equipment
8. begin play in a town next to an entirely random dungeon
9. all DM rolls made in the open, likewise players, including saving throws etc
10. we don't want to know your name until you survive your first combat

This deals with any thespy special snowflake nonsense fairly quickly.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on August 03, 2021, 06:57:35 AM
1. AD&D1e
2. roll 3d6 in order
3. you are human
4. random gender, height, weight, etc. And yes, random name - you didn't get to choose what your parents called you at birth, did you? Neither does the character. Yeah, they can try to name themselves something else - will it stick?
5. choose one of fighter, magic-user, cleric or thief - you're unlikely to qualify for any other class anyway
6. choose weapons proficiencies, MU get random starting spells, thieves write down skills, roll for hit points
7. throw for starting coinage and choose equipment
8. begin play in a town next to an entirely random dungeon
9. all DM rolls made in the open, likewise players, including saving throws etc
10. we don't want to know your name until you survive your first combat

This deals with any thespy special snowflake nonsense fairly quickly.

This!

Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2021, 06:48:39 AM
(5) Witch: Deer Girl Humanoid Female
(6) Ranger: Lilac-coloured Hermaphrodite Humanoid (Bizarre, functional blend of Male and Female)
(7) Monk: Lemon-Yellow coloured Humanoid Female with weird, three-toed prehensile feet
( Fighter: Rainbow-Coloured Hippo Girl Humanoid Female

If you allowed these as character creation options, really it's on you, surely? You as GM set the character creation parameters, and players create PCs within those parameters. Don't allow options you won't enjoy GMing for.

Yeah, at some point you have to put your foot down as GM and say 'Sorry, not allowed'.

You have opened Pandora's box already.

Good luck.

In college, I started a new group.  It was about two-thirds female that had never played any RPG before or had maybe done one session of D&D.  Since we were playing Fantasy Hero, I naively said they could play anything they wanted.  You give me the character concepts before we break for summer; next fall I'll have the campaign ready to go and build your characters for you.

It took me longer to build the characters than it did to set up the campaign.  And it wasn't just the ladies characters, either.  We added new players as we went.  At one point there was over 20, with usually 12 or so showing up for a given session.  Lost some to graduation or lack of interest.  The new characters were even stranger than the originals.

That was a wild, 2-year ride.  We made it work, somehow.  When it came time to start a new campaign, the first thing I did in a session zero was say, "You remember when we started last time, and I said you could do anything you wanted?  Naw, that ain't happening this time.  We are going to set some boundaries right now, and you are going to help me."

In retrospect, I should have wound up that first campaign after 1 year.

Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2021, 06:48:39 AM
(1) Barbarian: Germanic-like Barbarian Human Female
(2) Sorcerer: Indian-like Human Female
(3) Rogue: Lime-Green coloured Half Orc Female
(4) Druid: Wood Elf Female
(5) Witch: Deer Girl Humanoid Female
(6) Ranger: Lilac-coloured Hermaphrodite Humanoid (Bizarre, functional blend of Male and Female)
(7) Monk: Lemon-Yellow coloured Humanoid Female with weird, three-toed prehensile feet
( Fighter: Rainbow-Coloured Hippo Girl Humanoid Female

The focus on colors is a bit odd, but it seems like they're starting with a very visual approach, probably based on their experience creating avatars for video games. While they're going for cute and and exotic, it's worth noting they're exhibiting some restraint. Each seems to have one thing thing (plus a color) that makes them different from the baseline human, instead of being some complex chimeric monstrosity. Which isn't a bad compromise, because the verbally-focused world of tabletop games works better when characters have only one or two distinctive visual traits.

So they're starting with a video game mentality. Visuals first, character second. You should try to reference each character's visual distinctiveness at least once a session, because it's a way to recognize and reinforce each unique character, but your focus should be on encouraging them to shift from away from thinking of their characters primarily as visual avatars, and toward the strengths of tabletop RPGs. Specifically, start to think of their characters as people, who can interact with the world and complex NPCs in an infinite variety of ways. Since the goal is stop thinking of their characters primarily as visuals or bags of stats, have them interact with NPCs who aren't just infodumps or background characters with a circumscribed set of responses, and instead have lives of their own and memories. Also encourage out of the box thinking and solutions that don't involve mechanics. Tabletop RPGs are great at complex, dynamic characters and the ability to interact with the world in ways unbounded by rules.

From your other comments, it sounds like you haven't thought of a way to integrate your menagerie into a milieu. Have you considered mutations? They sound a little like Metamorphosis Alpha characters, down to the random skin colors. But while I suppose radiation would work in a weird science fantasy way, a more fairy taleish approach is also possible. They might be touched by the Second World. Perhaps this is the fey, or perhaps something divine in the Tuatha de Danann sense. This means they're human, but humans touched by the strange. These traits that make them not fully human might not be uncommon in the wider world, but they'd be a sign of the Wild or the Other. Perhaps more common in the deep forests, or other liminal places, and less common in the hustle and bustle of big cities or trade routes. So associated with the savage or the rural. Those displaying such marks wouldn't be automatically rejected or persecuted, but they'd be considered a little off, a little less trustworthy, a little less sophisticated. That gives them all a place in the world, instead of having to figure out a way to explain them all individually. It creates a little tension and possible discrimination, without turning them into pariahs and shutting off most opportunities to interact.

My experience has been tangential to yours, SHARK. I've DM'd for a lot of women -- most of my groups over the past 20 years have been composed of half women. Almost all of the women I gamed with were initially reluctant to play a "violent" game, and almost all built elaborate (and colorful) clerical/healer type characters.

But that's not what they played.

Of those women, 25% of them sat next to their boyfriends for a few sessions before quitting. But the other 75% almost invariably turned into brutal fighters at the table. That first combat where there's no one left to heal, and they finally swing their mace and feel the crunchy blow land deep. Their eyes light up, they go quiet for a moment, and then "ooooh".

After that, I have to remind them that their cleric character has, you know, spells.

For whatever reason, they have freedom to travel papers from the king himself.  No other special benefits.  However, they have work to do on behalf of the common good.  You fill in the blanks here, as DM.

SHARK, good for you on letting them pick what they want, remembering your gaming inclinations and background in history.  That's great for noobs.  For a follow on I'd lead with "this time I'd like to try a more focused approach ..."

To rationalize the color stuff, I'd be inclined to build on the Celtic idea of blue skin dye for war and say that it's widespread, with different groups or nationalities using different colors to identify themselves.  Just so that it's not so weird for the NPCs they encounter.  Also as a clue:  anyone they meet with skin dye is likely to be dangerous, though not necessarily unfriendly.

SHARK, I have no problems with the characters but dear Gawd 8 players?

May Gygax have mercy on your soul.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on August 03, 2021, 06:57:35 AM
1. AD&D1e
2. roll 3d6 in order
3. you are human
4. random gender, height, weight, etc. And yes, random name - you didn't get to choose what your parents called you at birth, did you? Neither does the character. Yeah, they can try to name themselves something else - will it stick?
5. choose one of fighter, magic-user, cleric or thief - you're unlikely to qualify for any other class anyway
6. choose weapons proficiencies, MU get random starting spells, thieves write down skills, roll for hit points
7. throw for starting coinage and choose equipment
8. begin play in a town next to an entirely random dungeon
9. all DM rolls made in the open, likewise players, including saving throws etc
10. we don't want to know your name until you survive your first combat

This deals with any thespy special snowflake nonsense fairly quickly.

Greetings!

Great stuff, Kyle!

I especially like being in a town next to a totally random dungeon! YES!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: S'mon on August 03, 2021, 07:11:21 AM

Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2021, 06:48:39 AM
(5) Witch: Deer Girl Humanoid Female
(6) Ranger: Lilac-coloured Hermaphrodite Humanoid (Bizarre, functional blend of Male and Female)
(7) Monk: Lemon-Yellow coloured Humanoid Female with weird, three-toed prehensile feet
( Fighter: Rainbow-Coloured Hippo Girl Humanoid Female

If you allowed these as character creation options, really it's on you, surely? You as GM set the character creation parameters, and players create PCs within those parameters. Don't allow options you won't enjoy GMing for.

Greetings!

Yeah, you're right, of course. I am in the process of playtesting stuff for a potential book I am planning, and didn't want this group too restrained or curated, but let loose, so to speak, in order to test limits of races, classes, spells, and so on. I admit, I am gambling, and embracing an element of risk. *laughing*

Also, being accustomed to veteran players, I am used to a more conventional race and class selection process, and I didn't think that this group--as newbies--would so eagerly embrace the "Oh! *Giggle!* So Random!" approach.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on August 03, 2021, 08:40:41 AM
In college, I started a new group.  It was about two-thirds female that had never played any RPG before or had maybe done one session of D&D.  Since we were playing Fantasy Hero, I naively said they could play anything they wanted.  You give me the character concepts before we break for summer; next fall I'll have the campaign ready to go and build your characters for you.

It took me longer to build the characters than it did to set up the campaign.  And it wasn't just the ladies characters, either.  We added new players as we went.  At one point there was over 20, with usually 12 or so showing up for a given session.  Lost some to graduation or lack of interest.  The new characters were even stranger than the originals.

That was a wild, 2-year ride.  We made it work, somehow.  When it came time to start a new campaign, the first thing I did in a session zero was say, "You remember when we started last time, and I said you could do anything you wanted?  Naw, that ain't happening this time.  We are going to set some boundaries right now, and you are going to help me."

In retrospect, I should have wound up that first campaign after 1 year.

Greetings!

Yes, while I too initially said they could look through the campaign book and pick whatever they wanted--I admit to being surprised and taken off-guard with this beginning campaign. I expected newbie women players--who have never played D&D previously--to be more conventional.

I am also fascinated by the psychology behind the deep enthusiasm for avoiding the conventional, or the traditional, and instead embracing this crazy zeal for the strange and bizarre.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK