Like the Lawful Evil thread, but for the exemplar of Chaotic Evil.

Alec from A Clockwork Orange.

jg

"For the lulz."

Lolth in one of the D&D novels. She was actually depicted as fairly chaotic and definitely evil.

Any serial killer. But that's because I go with the individual vs. society viewpoint of L vs. C.

No one had ever mention the Joker from the Batman comics, tv shows, video games, and movies?  I thought this would be the first one to be pick.

I mean the first clowns were court jesters who are tricksters and often mock authority figures.  You don't know what they are going to say, what they are going to do, and frankly have a disregard for order.  This also comes with the fact that the clown make up and "face" are just alter ego of a person so you have no idea who is the real person behind the make up.  That is pretty chaotic.

As for evil?  My god had you ever heard of clown killers?  Evil as fuck human beings that attract children into their white vans and soon enough they bury those children in a place no one will ever look.  I think in the 1970's they actually caught a real serial killer that did just that.  They found the bodies in a secret room, or compartment in the serial killer's house.  Add with the creepy factor of clowns and you got yourself a scary as hell evil threat.

Yeah, I think the Joker might just be the Exemplar here.

Now here is a Tricky one.

Mr Blonde....
Now we know he tortures people for fun, we know he can't stick to a plan and just starts shooting people for fun but .... he was in prison for a long while and he didn't rat anyone out....  Does he have a code?

Don't know if Mr. Blonde had a "code".  He knew what talking would have gotten him vs. keeping quiet and made the decision accordingly.

The hard part is coming up with a real example of C/E that isn't just "C/E equals psychopath".  Than again, maybe in humans, C/E is psychopathy.

Chaotic Evil is just anyone who doesn't care what they have to do to get ahead.

Quote from: James Gillen;839626Alec from A Clockwork Orange.

jg

Quote from: Snowman0147;839662No one had ever mention the Joker from the Batman comics, tv shows, video games, and movies?  I thought this would be the first one to be pick.

I mean the first clowns were court jesters who are tricksters and often mock authority figures.  You don't know what they are going to say, what they are going to do, and frankly have a disregard for order.  This also comes with the fact that the clown make up and "face" are just alter ego of a person so you have no idea who is the real person behind the make up.  That is pretty chaotic.

As for evil?  My god had you ever heard of clown killers?  Evil as fuck human beings that attract children into their white vans and soon enough they bury those children in a place no one will ever look.  I think in the 1970's they actually caught a real serial killer that did just that.  They found the bodies in a secret room, or compartment in the serial killer's house.  Add with the creepy factor of clowns and you got yourself a scary as hell evil threat.

I can't come up with anything better than Alex DeLarge or the Joker.

Snowman, you're thinking of John Wayne Gacy, but really that's ALL clowns, right?  

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;839912Chaotic Evil is just anyone who doesn't care what they have to do to get ahead.

That sounds more like neutral evil to me.

Quote from: Snowman0147;839662No one had ever mention the Joker from the Batman comics, tv shows, video games, and movies?  I thought this would be the first one to be pick.

Probably because it was so obvious, I wanted to use another example.

JG

Quote from: Natty Bodak;839918That sounds more like neutral evil to me.

When does it become Chaotic Evil then? CE would be just as fine hurting others and breaking any rules to get what it wants.

Also - Belkar Bitterleaf.

JG

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;840007When does it become Chaotic Evil then? CE would be just as fine hurting others and breaking any rules to get what it wants.

I agree that CE would be just as fine hurting others and breaking any rules to get what it wants. The difference, to me, is in the nature of the desires, and the methods taken to achieve them.

I'd propose that CE would be more likely to do what takes their CE fancy, even if that is not the thing that gets them ahead.  

Take the Joker (and let's go for Ledger's) for example, who fine folks here seem to think is a shoe-in for the position of CE poster boy. The Joker gets so caught up in what he see as a symbiotic dynamic between himself and Batman that he sidelines some of his energy from devolving Gotham into chaos, and threatens to kill the guy who would blow Batman's cover on live TV.  Presumably, his goals would have been better achieved if he had let Batman's cover be blown.

Admittedly, I'm not a Batman scholar, and await with determined acceptance for the schooling/corrections they may have for em.

NE is less driven by lawful and chaotic elements, and is not beholden to them.

That's my take, anyway.

Where do you see the line between NE and CE being?