i think this post on TBP deserves to be quoted:).

A trip some twenty years ago to Warwick castle (one of the few still in one piece due to the owner not taking sides in the English Civil War) the gatehouse (IIRC) contained an oubliette that was very interesting to peer down. A hole about a meter in diameter in the floor led into a much larger space below and the only way in (or out) was via that hole. It wasn't called an oubliette for nothing.

Quote from: Hrugga;932698Uncle,

Could expand a bit on the Professor's "rats" please...Thank you. Enjoy your game!!!

H:0)

PS I liked your Sakbe post and pictures. I also loved your library. When you get the chance could you tell us about your book collection? You have already given us some really great reference books to get...

The 'rats' are your basic vermin; they come in various forms, and have the usual variety of number of legs common to Tekumel. They all seem to have teeth, and voracious appetites. Phil didn't go into too much detail - I think his assumption was that rats are rats, and we should know what they were.

My library. I will freely admit that I love books, and I have a pretty good collection. The ones in the photo of the Sakbe road are the ones in the game room; my railway and F/SF libraries are elsewhere in the house. What I've tried to do is collect (I hate that word) books that illuminate aspects of what we learned from Phil, and reflected what he told us about over the years. Phil was very well-educated and well-read, and what he didn't know about he had a book about. In quite a few cases, I've been able to go back and get copies of books that Phil had, so we can all look at the same source materials.

I do not have a library catalog; I suppose I should do on, eh?

Thank you for the kind words on the Sakbe road posts; It was a fun project to build in the first place, and I got on the subject while building the storage crate for the set.

One of the fire siphon fumble results in Sea Law has the weapon being unready to fire because the crew is having an impromptu barbecue,

I had a good time. the players were a very solid bunch, and while a very diverse group, worked very well together. The GM did a 1st Level D&D version of dear old Chirine, who took up the rear guard duties and managed to be useful. Blackmoor castle is still as deadly as ever - we were in the modern d20 version - and we got worked over pretty well on several occasions. For me, it was like stepping back in time some forty years, and I enjoyed the game.

I was astonished by the rules books. A lot of numbers and number-crunching, but several of the players had handy tablet-based applications to roll up characters. I though that all the modifiers and bonuses were a lot to keep track of but again I had help with this. It all reminded me of "Tractics", actually. I mostly provided tactical advice and suggestions - there was almost nothing about this in the game books, oddly enough.

I will say that I found the d20 Blackmoor books disappointing. They are very good, and very playable; they do not have a lot of Dave Arneson or the early Blackmoor in them. They are set in the much later - 1990s and 2000s - version, and quite a few of the quirky things that made Blackmoor Blackmoor have been removed. Gertie and her island, the elves with the holy water pumps, the king of the orcs, and Sir Fang are all gone. My problem, I think, is that I played with Dave in his original idea of what he wanted to do; Blackmoor is now a Serious Place. What kept the game fun for me were the superb players, and I will treasure that. My thanks to all of them, and to the GM.

Seems like you had fun, Uncle. I guess it's normal for settings to change somewhat between editions, it's probably better to treat them as new settings, or maybe 100 years in the future;).

Lately, quite a few books don't offer tactical advice. Sometimes, this leads to funny scenes.
(I remember and treasure the scene when my wife was playing the role of giving out in-character tactical advice to another player in RQ6 Sengoku Japan. It was doubly funny because the other player was her superior in the ninja clan hierarchy, and that didn't save her from name-calling. She explained her exactly why she's going to get her character killed and destroy the clan's reputation. Quote "how can you be so stupid to expect another ninja would fight fair and not bring assistance, you moron", unquote, which had me grinning widely because I was in the process of rolling the stats for the two helpers.

And yes, I know ninja didn't have duels, what they did do was psychological warfare. The NPC had made the offer just to psych her character out, and was actually quite surprised when the PC accepted).

The comment about Tractics made me laugh, though. You were probably playing D&D 5e (or maybe, less likely, 3.5/Pathfinder), and I assure you, I could think of games that are much heavier at first level:p.
It's the new normal:). Thankfully, it doesn't bother me to play mechanics-heavy, as long as the mechanics can be used for something that makes sense.
Applications are almost a blessing, though, I fully share those feelings:D!

Quote from: AsenRG;932817Seems like you had fun, Uncle. I guess it's normal for settings to change somewhat between editions, it's probably better to treat them as new settings, or maybe 100 years in the future;).

Lately, quite a few books don't offer tactical advice. Sometimes, this leads to funny scenes.
(I remember and treasure the scene when my wife was playing the role of giving out in-character tactical advice to another player in RQ6 Sengoku Japan. It was doubly funny because the other player was her superior in the ninja clan hierarchy, and that didn't save her from name-calling. She explained her exactly why she's going to get her character killed and destroy the clan's reputation. Quote "how can you be so stupid to expect another ninja would fight fair and not bring assistance, you moron", unquote, which had me grinning widely because I was in the process of rolling the stats for the two helpers.

And yes, I know ninja didn't have duels, what they did do was psychological warfare. The NPC had made the offer just to psych her character out, and was actually quite surprised when the PC accepted).

The comment about Tractics made me laugh, though. You were probably playing D&D 5e (or maybe, less likely, 3.5/Pathfinder), and I assure you, I could think of games that are much heavier at first level:p.
It's the new normal:). Thankfully, it doesn't bother me to play mechanics-heavy, as long as the mechanics can be used for something that makes sense.
Applications are almost a blessing, though, I fully share those feelings:D!

I did enjoy myself; very good players, and a good GM was what made the game fun.

I agree about the settings changing. I just didn't like that what we, back in the day, had thought was part and parcel of Blackmoor's quirky and whimsical charm had been removed and the place made into A Serious RPG Setting For Serious Gaming. I kept thinking that I was intruding at the table, and being from a very different time and place. My impression, which has been developing for some years, is that there's no place for the kind of gaming and games that I like in today's hobby. Of course, with the kind of money one has to spend to get into the hobby these days, I can see why Serious Gaming is the norm; I looked at both the Star Wars and Star trek miniatures games that are on the market - the ships for which I would have been happy to give up an arm for, back in the day - and it all seems that if you spend enough money. you'll be able to play the game. (And this from a guy who just dropped $80 on a two-foot long trieme and $45 on a Sleazy Merchant and his six Sleepy Guards, too; different tastes, I would venture to say.)

Agreed. I did some suggestions on tactics that both players and GM thought were good, and they got used. I was pleased, as it saved our little party a lot of grief later on in the session.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;932819I did enjoy myself; very good players, and a good GM was what made the game fun.

Well, that's great!

QuoteI agree about the settings changing. I just didn't like that what we, back in the day, had thought was part and parcel of Blackmoor's quirky and whimsical charm had been removed and the place made into A Serious RPG Setting For Serious Gaming.

Yeah, though my impression is that most groups still play it quirky and whimsical. AFAICT, the rationale behind the shift is that it's easier to use a Serious RPG Setting for whimsical play than the other way around.
Or maybe they've decided that players can do it quirky without help. I can attest to that:).

QuoteI kept thinking that I was intruding at the table, and being from a very different time and place. My impression, which has been developing for some years, is that there's no place for the kind of gaming and games that I like in today's hobby.

I was at the same point about a decade ago.
Then I decided that what the hobby doesn't have is enough GMs. Thus, if I run it, I decide what kind of gaming there is place for.
The results, may I add, seem to prove me right;).

QuoteOf course, with the kind of money one has to spend to get into the hobby these days, I can see why Serious Gaming is the norm; I looked at both the Star Wars and Star trek miniatures games that are on the market - the ships for which I would have been happy to give up an arm for, back in the day - and it all seems that if you spend enough money. you'll be able to play the game. (And this from a guy who just dropped $80 on a two-foot long trieme and $45 on a Sleazy Merchant and his six Sleepy Guards, too; different tastes, I would venture to say.)

I don't think so, Uncle. Most games I can think of you can get for less than those $80, and probably for less than the $45 you mentioned. That includes the dice, but not the pizza.

QuoteAgreed. I did some suggestions on tactics that both players and GM thought were good, and they got used. I was pleased, as it saved our little party a lot of grief later on in the session.

I'm unsurprised:D!
Can you give us an example of said tactics?

You got something there, Chirine.  That Heavy Metal (as in magazine) mix of Fantasy and Sci-Fi, informed as much by Sword and Planet as Sword and Sorcery, and both of them more than Tolkien, is hard to come by these days.  Some OSR stuff out there tries, like DCC, but many of them just go for the gonzo, which makes them seem more like a cover band then the real thing.

I think you're right, in that it was a sign of the times and the times have changed.

I'm with AsenRG on this one. Play style is a function of what you're exposed to. If you run the game, you set the style. Then vote with your wallet, if you're going to buy products buy the ones in the style you like. I have The First Fantasy Campaign from JG, and if I ever wanted to run Blackmoor (and I don't know if I ever will, I've got so much to run anyway), I'd use that as a base. Then maybe maps from the TSR module series.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;932819I did enjoy myself; very good players, and a good GM was what made the game fun.

I agree about the settings changing. I just didn't like that what we, back in the day, had thought was part and parcel of Blackmoor's quirky and whimsical charm had been removed and the place made into A Serious RPG Setting For Serious Gaming. I kept thinking that I was intruding at the table, and being from a very different time and place. My impression, which has been developing for some years, is that there's no place for the kind of gaming and games that I like in today's hobby. Of course, with the kind of money one has to spend to get into the hobby these days, I can see why Serious Gaming is the norm; I looked at both the Star Wars and Star trek miniatures games that are on the market - the ships for which I would have been happy to give up an arm for, back in the day - and it all seems that if you spend enough money. you'll be able to play the game. (And this from a guy who just dropped $80 on a two-foot long trieme and $45 on a Sleazy Merchant and his six Sleepy Guards, too; different tastes, I would venture to say.)

Agreed. I did some suggestions on tactics that both players and GM thought were good, and they got used. I was pleased, as it saved our little party a lot of grief later on in the session.

I fell in love with the Star Wars X wing game, until I saw the 'expansion packs' in play.  Once again, the game turns into "how much money do you spend," not "how much skill does the player have."

Yeah, they're pricey, but sweet Avanthe's perfect tushy, they are gorgeous.

And I know what you mean by the death of whimsy.  As I said when Anthony interviewed me for "Dungeons & Dragons, A Documentary" -- "When did sitting around a table with friends, drinking beer and talking about pretending to be an elf, become such SERIOUS BUSINESS!"

Quote from: AsenRG;932867I'm unsurprised:D!
Can you give us an example of said tactics?

#1:  Look behind you once in a damn while!

I believe there is enough room in the tent for all kinds of gaming. And I believe that there are way more non-Serious Gamers than Serious ones. Maybe the percentage of Serious Gamers is higher in your neck of the woods than most places. In fact, given your descriptions of the various personalities in your area from over the years, I think there maybe something in the water up there, lol.

But keep playing. Keep running games how you like to play. It sounds like you have never lacked for players, so I think there certainly is a place for your kind of gaming. I know Gronan has said he has no lack of players trying to play in his games. There is a thirst for it.

I may be wrong but it seemed like wargaming and roleplaying diverged right as D&D really exploded. Back in the early 80's, I don't recall too many people who did both. RPGer's looked at the "scary bearded guys" (an actual quote I remember being uttered many times in many stores) in the back with their minis with a bit of fear. The old wargaming grogs seemed to settle into historicals and a few spaceship games, and scoffed/looked down on the "kids" who were "playing pretend". The line has since blurred again, coming from the wargames' side taking on  some of the trappings of rpgs. Most of the new and popular (and expensive) wargames have all kinds of named characters with unique powers, etc. Problem is (imo) that this came after the wargames gulped down some concepts from the later rpgs that made them easier to sell to young players, things like diminished/overly simplified tactics, lack of C&C or morale, etc. (Warhammer 1st edition was never going to be used by the Prussian High Command to train it's officers, but compared to whatever release they are on now, it is light years more challenging). I can see the miniature based games you run on your youtube channel actually going over well. Especially with those that play those games but want a bit "more" from them. I've talked with and gamed with several people who feel that way.

Tekumel questions- how much access do the temples give to scholars, to things like libraries and their own scholars? I understand that if you belong and are of high enough circle you get access to stuff, but what about to an allied Temple? A rival? Thumis is the teacher, does he have libraries where anybody can go do research? I assume some of it would be "donation" based but is there a general policy? I would also assume that they have a public section and a private side, correct?

Do all the Temples have libraries and research arms? Are some temples more specialized, like Karakan and Vimulha may not have big libraries but what they do have is lots of stuff on war and combat? Like shelves of Osprey books, lol?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932927#1:  Look behind you once in a damn while!

I'd hope they knew that one already;).

Quote from: AsenRG;932867I'm unsurprised:D!
Can you give us an example of said tactics?

What we used to call 'travelling' and 'bounding' 'overwatch', where the various sections / people of the party covered each other's moves;
Communication - saying to the party, and not just to the GM, what they were wanting or about to do;
Covering people engaged in a task by someone with a ranged weapon or spell - covering fire, as it were;
Rearguards that guarded the rear of the party.
Archers or crossbowpersons carry one arrow or bolt that has oil-soaked tow wrapped around the head, so that it can be used as an 'illumination' or 'incendiary' round - giant spiders have webs, webs burn, ambush blown;
Carry lanterns, not torches - and carry them low, so as not to blind everybody;

Them was the basics we covered in this game session.